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Yes, I agree, build the trail now!

Pro-Trail-SignWhile I was at the park district offices recently, I noticed they had green signs there that stated “Build the Trail NOW” and gave a web address for more information. I asked if the Park District made up the signs, and they said no, someone else did. Then they asked me if I wanted one, which gave me the biggest laugh of my day.

Today, I’ve been told by a couple of people that these signs are all up and down University street between Glen and Northmoor, along the Race for the Cure route.

The funny thing is, I agree with the simple message, “Build the Trail Now.” In fact, I believe that the trail could have been built years ago. The people who made the signs no doubt think that Pioneer Railcorp, Carver Lumber, and/or the Surface Transportation Board are holding things up. But the truth is the only organization holding things up is the Park District.

The Park District can build that trail any time they want by putting it next to the rail line or next to the streets that parallel the rail line. Nothing is stopping them except their own stubborn desire to see the Kellar Branch rail line removed.

The Park District has proven that money is not an issue: they’ve been able to get Illinois Department of Natural Resources (IDNR) grants to build portions of the trail that they had originally planned to build with federal funds that carry more restrictions.

The Park District has proven that a Class I trail is not absolutely necessary: they’ve built a Class III trail south of War Memorial Drive with those IDNR grants I referred to earlier. Apparently they just want the Class I trail north of War Memorial — seems a bit arbitrary, don’t you think?

The Park District has proven that even a Class I trail can be nothing more than a glorified sidewalk: the portion of the trail they’ve built at Pioneer Park and Sommer is nothing more than a sidewalk that parallels the roadway, while still being separate. Their plans call for the same thing in Peoria Heights. If they can do that there, why couldn’t they do it along, say, Harvard Ave.? Why do they have-to have-to have-to replace the Kellar Branch rail line?

So, I’ll jump on that bandwagon. I say to the Peoria Park District: Build the Trail, NOW! And stop wasting taxpayer money trying to eliminate rails from the city.

Posted by C. J. Summers on Thursday, May 10th, 2007.

71 Responses to “Yes, I agree, build the trail now!”

Anti-rail people like to think of themselves as progressive environmentalists. I believe they look at trains as icky and anti-environment. They don’t see the bigger picture that trains are far greener than delivery trucks that belch emissions into the air. I’ve never before seen a group of environmentalists so hellbent on destroying train tracks. Even our progressive environmentalists are 10 years behind the curve.

Left by RTP on May 10th, 2007

Here in Madison, WI we have a very extensive network of bike trails, but there was always a glaring missing section in the center of downtown where no trail existed. The city needed about a 2 mile trail to connect two major trails together. This section, called “the missing link” was finished last year and the entire length runs along side a busy train track. There is no problem at all with the side by side trail/rail in this corridor and it greatly reduces the need for recreational & commuter cyclists from having to be on a narrow, very busy road to get to the next section of trail. I cannot see why Peoria cannot do the same.

Left by CP on May 10th, 2007

Peoria singles signs and now this, the landscape in peoria is looking a bit rough lately with all these signs blocking the flowers and grass and other things more pleasant to look at. Perhaps this type of asthetic thinking is what we have at our current park district. I don’t want to leave out the ” I am against the landfill so I got this piece of non-biodegradable plastic crap to post in my yard until I throw it away” crowd. By the way, stay in school and libraries are cool. Oh and one more “save the lunchladies - Save the world” Have a nice day.

Left by raoul duke on May 10th, 2007

I saw a bumper sticker last week. Yes, drive your car from fake Dunlap to your job downtown and oppose any chance at commuter rail in the future.

Left by BeanCounter on May 10th, 2007

Don’t forget the “Save Our Lunchladies” signs.

feh

Left by Emtronics on May 10th, 2007

I am convinced that most environmentalists don’t base their opinions on anything remotely approaching science and rationality. They have their vision in their heads of the Way Things Ought To Me, and the think if the government spend enough money, it will happen. And a lot of it is simple group thought and a desire to be “seen” as pro environment.

Left by Billy Dennis on May 10th, 2007

these trail people are nuts. Where are the mental hospitals when you need them?
As for the Park District and their puppetiers, they are just terrified their hidden agenda will be revealed before they get the railroad torn up.

Left by The Mouse on May 10th, 2007

Mental Hospitals? The Gov closed them remember?

Left by Emtronics on May 10th, 2007

I’m hot for the upcoming jail sentences.

Left by vonster on May 10th, 2007

I’m curious if these signs are on public property? If so did they get permission from the city to post them? If they are on private property and the owner doesn’t object that is okay. But as CJ says the park district is its own worst enemy because they could have the trail any time they wanted to build along side the rail. Its being done all across the country and very successfully I might add.

Left by SD on May 10th, 2007

On my way into work this morning I noticed these signs have been taken down between Glen & Northmoor. It would be interesting to find out why & by who. It does look like the grass in the boulevards & between the sidewalk & street have been mowed.

Left by David T on May 11th, 2007

David, I only saw one sign on University this morning and it was butted up against a wood fence. It did look like they mowed, yet the race for the cure signs were put back in place. I could see a good half-dozen or so green signs as I glanced down Northmoor.

Left by PeoriaIllinoisan on May 11th, 2007

1. Most of the signs are made of heavy cardboard/paper - not plastic.
2. I’ve put signs on medians (Sterling, Rt 29) and had them stay up for a while, then the mowers come through and they’re gone. Although, I’ve also had them stay up/be replaced by the mowing crew. I don’t think there’s a standard.
3. BUILD THE DAMN TRAIL BY THE RAIL ALREADY!!

Left by cgiselle12 on May 11th, 2007

All of the signs with the 2 prong thin metal posts are made of a corrugated plastic. All of the signs are trashy looking and I encourage everyone to destroy any and all signs found on public property, if you want them in your yard fine, trash up your yard.

Left by raoul duke on May 11th, 2007

cgiselle, did you get permission to post the signs on the medians? It is public property and it is not allowed to post on that or power poles or street signs. They can take down your signs and destroy them without asking you. Personally I’m sick to death of seeing signs of all sizes and shapes stuck up all over the country side.

Left by SD on May 11th, 2007

These types of signs are an eyesore and would probably be eliminated through ordinances if politicians didn’t need to use them every couple of years during their election cycles.

A good website regarding this issue is located at http://www.causs.org This site is maintained by Citizens Against Ugly Street Spam - a perfect analogy for what these signs represent.

In addition, this is a timely topic since the American Association of Code Enforcement (www.aace1.com) has declared May 19 - 25, 2007 as National S.O.S. Week (stands for Sick of Signs) and is encouraging local government code enforcement officers to make a special effort to ticket offenders and remove illegal signs that week.

Left by Peo Proud on May 11th, 2007

I’ve always thought the city could make a tidy little sum of money if they ticketed all those that post signs on public property illegally and also those that put up signs and just leave them for ages. As I mentioned earlier I’m sick to death of seeing all this posting all over with no regard for the landscape and in some cases the signs are blocking the view of drivers and is dangerous.

Left by SD on May 11th, 2007

The veterinary clinic at the corner of Northmoor and Sheridan had quite an assortment of signs in front of their overgrown hedge and fence today. The signs they took down on Sheridan must have been moved there.

Left by PrairieCelt on May 12th, 2007

CJ: I found out that while money isn’t an issue to build the trail, there is a stipulation that says in the grant money the Park District has that the rail has to be removed before a trail can be built. It can not be built along side the rail also because of insurance concerns and liabilities. That is why the PD will not build along side the rail.

Left by Emtronics on May 13th, 2007

Well the answer to that is go out and get grants to build the trail that don’t have those restrictions in them. Many other communities have done this and they are co-existing just fine and both parties are benefiting. There is no excuse, just get different grants. There are plenty available if you look for them.

Left by SD on May 13th, 2007

While I am sure there are plenty of grants, the ones already awarded for the trail are in hand. Giving up a grant because of non use I am sure chaps someone’s butt someplace. I really doubt the PD wants to go through the motions of re-writing the grant and awaiting an award after they gave back one already. In other words, they want it all or nothing.

Left by Emtronics on May 13th, 2007

Emtronics, that’s not correct. There is nothing in the agreement that says the rails have to be removed. I have a copy of the agreement with the stipulations. As far as insurance concerns and liability if the trail is built beside the rail, a picture speaks a thousand words:

This picture is taken north of Pioneer Parkway. It’s a trail the park district built right next to the Kellar Branch. Don’t tell me it can’t be done. It’s been done.

Left by C. J. Summers on May 13th, 2007

Oh, and they’ve already modified that grant once, showing that that can be done, too.

Left by C. J. Summers on May 13th, 2007

What is the pro-trail response to that picture?

Left by Mazr on May 13th, 2007

My source was sure of the info. I still stand by what I was told.

Left by Emtronics on May 13th, 2007

Nice picture, CJ ;)

Left by PeoriaIllinoisan on May 13th, 2007

The park district seems to be able to bend the rules to suit them whenever they want to. Like not running the trail alongside of public streets. They are doing it and plan on doing it in the future, but they tell us they can’t do that with these grants. Well then how are they going to do it in Peoria Heights where they are going up Prospect Rd. to Kelly across and back down the other side?

Left by SD on May 13th, 2007

Ah, Emtronics and his confident but mysterious source. Please ask Deep Throat to provide proof of what you were told. Otherwise, I too am sure of the info and will stand by what I have researched. I’ll be glad to revise my comments should Deep Throat come through with the proof.

Left by C. J. Summers on May 13th, 2007

The biking/hiking trail grants thing concerning not having the trail next to the rail is just the “BIG LIE” or smokescreen to get rid of the tracks from Pioneer Parkway to War Memorial Drive. Folks, there is money to be made, really big bucks. Why else would the Maloof folks so hot to pull the tracks unless it was for the $$$$$. How about O’Brien; is he in on the investment? The biker/hiker folks are just pawns in this big money game. This is nothing more than typical dirty Peoria politics. E. N.Woodruff would be proud of their sneaky dealings.

Left by Mister Ed on May 13th, 2007

EMTRONICS, you too are a pawn in this game. Someone has been lying to you. May the spirit of Cohomo be with you.

Left by Mister Ed on May 13th, 2007

Scan and post the agreement.

Left by Mahkno on May 14th, 2007

And… you enabled pictures inside comments… awesome.. hope Billy did too.

Left by Mahkno on May 14th, 2007

When did the observation that if a person is for a trail they are against a rail, come out? The group Rails to Trails supports converting abandoned rails, not existing rails that are in use. The only reason we at the Recreational Trail Advocate are pursuing the trail in place of the rail is because the City of Peoria had previously gone through the motion of having the trail abandoned. Then the abandonment was put on hold by the STB because of arguements by PIRY. This is perfectly legal and within their rights. The decision is currently in the hands of the STB and other politicians. Our only voice in these proceedings is through politicians. Expressing an opinion and trying to gain support is all we are doing. If you feel an oposition towards our opinion, feel free to express yourself, as you do on this blog, or by contacting your local representatives.
I also would like to express that trail advocates are not all environmentalists. I drive American made gas guzzlers and enjoy making polution running up and down a drag strip. Sometimes, I also like to take a walk or ride a bike with my family and friends. Hope to see you out there, either making polution or losing a few pounds exercising.

At our cleaning of the Kellar Branch on Saturday the 19th, we will review locations that signs have been placed and remove if necessary. Most signs were placed with permission but a few I have seen are pushing the limits. You will notice that none are on Peoria Park District property. Even though they are for the trail, campaigning is not aloud on public property. When our campaign is over, I assure you that we will remove all signs. Again, we are only trying to gain support for an issue that was started a long time ago.

Left by Keith Bonds on May 15th, 2007

Keith Bonds:

If you want a trail so badly, why hasn’t the group advocated the combo rail/trail? You would have had the thing done years ago.

Left by mdd on May 15th, 2007

Keith,

Thanks for commenting. The reason I feel that many trail advocates (most notably the park district) are anti-rail is because of their effort to try to get a working rail line put out of commission to make way for a trail. If the line were indeed abandoned and not in use, there would be no controversy. But the fact is that at the time this all started there were three businesses at the north end of the Kellar Branch who relied on that branch for shipping. Carver still relies on it. It would be akin to the city deciding they wanted to tear out the road in front of your business and put a pedestrian greenway there, then built a toll road to your business for trucks to use and call it even.

My point is simply that there are lots of options, a lot of room for compromise, but the park district won’t hear of it. They stubbornly refuse to look for alternatives to taking out the rail line.

So, what’s really the desired end here: To have a trail or to eliminate the rail line? If it’s to have a trail, as I’ve pointed out, it could have been built a long time ago if they just would have built it next to the rail line or along streets that parallel the rail line. Since they’re not willing to even consider these options, I have to assume that part of their objective is to eliminate the rail line. I sure don’t understand why, though.

Also, I do use the trail. In fact, I just rode my bike 24 miles on the Rock Island Trail from Toulon to Alta this past Saturday. Interestingly, despite it being a beautiful day, I only passed about 30 people the whole way.

Left by C. J. Summers on May 15th, 2007

MDD and C.J.,
The Peoria Park District decided the route to take and said that the price of a rail/trail would be to costly. After looking at the info provided, we followed supporting the route that was most economicle and possible to achieve….we thought.

The City of Peoria and Peoria Heights own the land. I cannot speak for why the route was chosen and what is the desired ending. I have seen the studies that were done for the proposed trail.

PIRY’s contract ended and they are still fighting, which is their right. CIRY & DOT are new to this and in my opinion, do not support the trail. They are businesses doing what businesses do, try to make a profit. Again this is my opinion, not fact.

This is a very long and ongoing controversy and I have not been involved for it all. I do know that the rail was left in terrible condition and would be costly to repair. I invite you to come walk the Kellar Branch in Peoria Heights this Saturday. See for yourself the existing condition, lend a hand picking up garbage, and give me a chance to meet yourself, Mr. David Jordan and others. I would like to put a new face on the RTA, put some faces with the names, and make some friends. Maybe discuss, and if not come to a common agreement, show that we do respect everyones right to disagree.

As for C.J.’s ride, ouch! I have not made it that far at one time since High School. I live between Dunlap and Princeville and overlook the trail from a 1/4 mile away, just corn between me and the trail. I have not heard numbers as to usage, but are you not glad you and your family have a safe place to ride and not compete with speeding motorists? The most used section is between Dunlap and Pioneer Park. On any give weekend, there is a constant flow. At lunchtime I walk from Pioneer to Route 6 and pass 15 or more each way. Recently when we cleaned from Chanute to Route 6, there again was a constant flow. It does get used, some areas more than others. Hopefully we will cross paths someday.

Left by Keith Bonds on May 15th, 2007

The Kellar Branch is in terrible shape because the city owns it and has done nothing for maintenance. Pioneer used to do the maintenance (I used to live along the Kellar Branch when Pioneer ran it) and CIRY has done zero maintenance. (Has the city given permission for you to walk down the tracks?)

The reason only one business now uses it is due to the uncertainty of its continued existence. The track is an asset, not a liability that should be used to attract additional manufacturing jobs to Peoria.

The Peoria Park District CHOSE a plan for a luxury trail, not something that makes more economic sense like the rest of the Rock Island Trail. The PPD has trouble maintaining their existing parks and assets, how are they going to maintain even more miles of trail?

Pioneer has offered to repair the line, pay the city a nice little sum of needed cash for it and to help build a trail next to it. Take their offer and you get a trail much sooner and the city may be able to get some needed jobs and increase the tax base. Sounds like a win-win?

Left by mdd on May 15th, 2007

I work along the tracks in Pioneer Park and walk the trail here. They were delapidated long before PIRY quit using them. When did PIRY’s contract end, I do not remember? 2004, 2005? Two or three years of non use and they look like they do?

I halfway agree with your reasoning on why only one business uses the tracks, or did use them anyway. The second reason is that there is not a large volume user in the area. If there was, the western connection might have a chance.

Your comments on the PPD are your opinion. Thank you for expressing them.

I was at the meeting when Pioneer offered to “repair” the line. The way it sounded, again my opinion, was they would put a bandaid on it. There quote of $100,000 thousand dollars was no where near IDOT’s quote. Whose quote is correct? I do not know. As for helping build a trail next to it, I missed that part. I will review the minutes.

More jobs sounds good but we still have no guarantee that will happen just like there is no guarantee anyone will come to use the trail. Speculation of the future from both sides is just that, speculation. Economic benefit is a goal of both sides. Voice your opinion to your local politicians and they will do what they were elected to do, be it supporting rail or trail or both.

Left by Keith Bonds on May 15th, 2007

Mister Ed, tell us more! What is the hidden agenda? Does it have something to do with a certain golf course? We all know the politicos who are desperate for this trail don’t give a rat’s behind for the handful of trail nuts running around with their stupid signs. No one seriously believes the trail propaganda about this trail bringing people to Peoria and people commuting to work up and down the bluff. It’s always about the money. Who stands to make it by destroying this rail line?

Left by The Mouse on May 15th, 2007

Of course there is no guarantee of new jobs if the rail exists, but if it doesn’t exist, you never will get those jobs that rely upon rail service, will you?

Take a drive thru Glen Oak Park and report back. (Of course, you can’t drive thru it anymore because they closed roads due to the poor condition of those roads.)

3 years of zero tree pruning and general weed growth is all it is. I saw crews cutting trees and brush a couple times per year when I lived along the tracks.

Just curious - If you live near Dunlap, why are you attending so many Peoria city council meetings? Do you have a financial interest in seeing the trail built?

Left by mdd on May 15th, 2007

“Economic benefit is a goal of both sides.”

That is the mentality that I have a problem with. The primary goal of a recreational trail cannot be economic. It would be like my goal as a beancounter is to cure cancer, it just isn’t realistic. There is no trail in a small/medium sized city, with a non temperate climate, that provides economic development, let alone development comparable to the potential of rail that isn’t mired in uncertainty. It just does not happen. Don’t tell me about the houses in Trails Edge. Those houses are there because of the ability to get downtown/or to Mossville relatively quickly and the Dunlap school district. Those types of home will not be built along the Keller. You can make all the quality of life arguments you want, but quality of life is not the same as economic development.

Left by BeanCounter on May 15th, 2007

Beancounter,

Sorry, economic benefit would be an extra if it occured. Much more would come out of companies moving to town and providing jobs and tax revenue. How is Galesburg doing? Not trying to be sarcastic, just stating that they have been looking for companies to move there for years and have recently lost some big ones.

Beautification and, as you said, quality of life are the main benifits of a trail. Again, I am not for the removal of any track that is in use or is viable to the community. The owner decides what they want and it still is ruled on by the STB.
You are correct about the houses at Trails Edge. Catchy name but they were put there by someone seeking economic benefit. Is the trail in your backyard a selling point? Not to me, but who is to say somebody did not chose the location because of this.
Will homes of this price range be built up against the Union Pacific line? I sure would not buy one. You are also correct to say that homes might not be built along the Kellar because most of that land is taken. Again we can only speculate. What if a developer buys a section or those 10 acres in Peoria Heights and develops? What if a retirement village is built along the trail? The possibilities are endless with track or trail and only spoiled by lack of imagination.

As I said earlier I am new to this. Has anyone given a proposal to the city council showing alternate routes for a trail or how they will work side by side?

Hope to see eveyone Saturday. The track is being cleaned up for the benefit of Peoria Heights and its land owners who live along the sides.

Left by Keith Bonds on May 15th, 2007

I guess no one has driven West of Alta and seen the new homes being built within a stones throw of the Union Pacific lines? I guess heavy usage train tracks don’t hurt the home values too much, right?

Left by mdd on May 15th, 2007

mdd,
You are correct, no rail means no possibilty of businesses who need rail service locating along the Kellar. There is plent of vacant land along the Western connection. I know it is high priced right now, but it will come down or deals will be made.

I took a look at Glen Oak and you are correct. Is anything in the budget? Did anyone ask Cassidy or Johnson when they were running?

Please come to the clean-up and let me show you that the problem is larger than pruning. Washouts, rotted tracks and missing spikes just to name a few.

No, I have no financial interest in the trail being built. Just did what any citizen of this country can do, find a platform, join a cause, express yourself. My kids are out of the house and this is just a hobby. Biking and walking are being done because I spent too many years driving a truck and eating at truck stops. I also attend charity walks and donate time to worthy causes, i.e. Habitat for Humanity and Christmas in April. Getting involved in our community has been my portal to making new friends and expanding my horizon.
Enough about me, show up Saturday and help your community.

Left by Keith Bonds on May 15th, 2007

mdd,
I would have to disagree with a stones throw. You must have been the first one picked for baseball. I have seen the row of trees planed and do not know if that is a wind break, sound break, eyesore remover or all of the above.

Left by Keith Bonds on May 15th, 2007

So Galesburg needs a trail? I’m not really sure what your views are at this point. I guess my stance always comes back to the Kellar branch being urban infrastructure. When properly managed, infrastructure worth millions of dollars, with legitimate potential at real economic development. Trails, we already have those, along with a government backed wellness center, zoo, and civic center. There are plenty of quality of life amenities in Peoria, to destroy something worth so much for a paved path through town is absurd.

Left by BeanCounter on May 15th, 2007

Not that the Kellar Branch trains were loud. They weren’t at all, but I would hazard a guess that you can easily hear the trains along the BNSF lines 1.7 miles North of your house. These folks outside Alta near the UP lines are so much closer and I cannot wait until they start complaining. It will be just like those folks that bought houses near Mt. Hawley airport and complain about the airplanes. For all but a small handful of people, the airport was there first.

Side note: Keith, it’s good to have a nice, civil discussion and see that you are open-minded (Glen Oak Park) I should meet you one of these days. :)

Left by mdd on May 15th, 2007

Nobody mentioned a trail in Galesburg. I agree with your statement on what could be done with the track. I again say that I came on board after the City of Peoria asked for the rail to be abandoned. The RTA has no say so whatsoever in what happens now. The STB wanted nothing to do with the letter sent by us. That was a mistake and we did not follow procedure. Rails to Trails only supports abandoned tracks being used as trails. Please express your thoughts on the absurdity to your politicians and your opinion will be heard just like mine.

Left by Keith Bonds on May 15th, 2007

Thank you mdd. I actually enjoy watching and hearing the BNSF to the north and the UP the east. I am far enough away that it is like having a big train set. When I lived in Princeville I never thought I would get used to trains, but I did, even two blocks away. You also hit the nail on the head about people complaining. I have friends in Chicago and the complaining about O’Hare never stops.
Nice having a conversation with you,also. Maybe we will cross paths someday.

Left by Keith Bonds on May 15th, 2007

It seems in Peoria once Nobel, LaHood, et al. have spoken, the conversation is over. Get on board or get run over.

Left by BeanCounter on May 15th, 2007

If you feel it is time to give up…… Please do not. Our country would not be as great as it is without discussion of differing opinions. Elected officials represent. Let them know how you feel. Have your friends relay how they feel. Maybe we can get more than 10% to vote.

Left by Keith Bonds on May 15th, 2007

David T,
Out of respect for area residents, the Recreational Trail Advocates removed the signs after the Race for the Cure. If you feel that there are signs that were not put out with permission of land owners, let me know and I will personally look into and remove them.

Left by Keith Bonds on May 15th, 2007

Keith Bond said, “The only reason we at the Recreational Trail Advocate are pursuing the trail in place of the rail is because the City of Peoria had previously gone through the motion of having the trail abandoned.”

Unfortunately Keith this is not true. The city declared it abandoned but did not petition the STB for proper abandonment and therefore what the city declared was not proper.

“After looking at the info provided, we followed supporting the route that was most economical and possible to achieve….we thought.”

The information provided was very one sided and slanted. Not all aspects were presented.

“I halfway agree with your reasoning on why only one business uses the tracks, or did use them anyway. The second reason is that there is not a large volume user in the area. If there was, the western connection might have a chance.”

No matter what the volume of traffic is on the western connection the chance will not be there for the little guy like Carver. UP can charge less for high volume traffic, but if Carver and other smaller companies need service UP is going to charge whatever they want and its not going to be reasonable. Also the arrangement of the tracks is not proper and if you listened to Richard Carver in his speech before the city council he reiterated this very well.

“I was at the meeting when Pioneer offered to “repair” the line. The way it sounded, again my opinion, was they would put a bandaid on it. There quote of $100,000 thousand dollars was no where near IDOT’s quote. Whose quote is correct? I do not know. As for helping build a trail next to it, I missed that part. I will review the minutes.”

The quotes are not comparing apples to apples. Pioneer has their own equipment here in Peoria and have their own employees already on payroll. Therefore their cost is considerably less expensive. If you have to bring in an estimator and a crew and all the equipment from the outside of course it is going to cost considerably more. Pioneer did volunteer to bring the tracks up to passenger code. This is better than freight level. The passenger level would be to run trolleys at 15 to 30 mph. This is not excessive nor high speed rail. That will never happen on the Kellar simply from the lay out of the right of way.

One other point is that I spoke with David Spacek of IDOT’s railroad bureau and he said that they could do a free feasibility study on the Kellar after June when their fiscal year starts over. All it takes is a letter from the mayor and another one from an elected official such as a senator or representative. We really need to have this done and settle the question once and for all if the Kellar is a viable railroad entity for the area.

Pioneer did in fact volunteer to give in-kind assistance to building the trail along side the tracks. This is using their equipment and employees to assist the park district in their trail efforts. A very generous offer on Pioneer’s part. This offer would range somewhere in the $100,000 amount of in-kind services.

Left by SD on May 15th, 2007

Mazr,
My pro-trail response to that picture is: What a nice change of scenery. A little industrial decorating never hurt. Not everybody likes to look at plants and animals. My other response was to the fire department to make sure they knew they were there and they were safe. The response from Battalion Chief Steinseifer confirmed that they were inspected and safe.

Left by Keith Bonds on May 15th, 2007

SD,
Just as you do mine, I will take your reported facts as truths. Without time to research I do not know.
It appears your disagreement is with the city and their actions. Maybe a trip to a council meeting should be in order. It his also hard to support one side without being one sided. I try to keep an open mind but I tend to lean one way or the other.
As for the western branch never working for a small business, you can read Mr. Jordan’s blogs and see that he appears not to agree with you on this one. Again, opinion. Read for yourself.
As for apples to apples, is CIRY an apple? I approached someone from their company and asked how much to repair the rail and mentioned the $100,000 offered by PIRY. Laughter followed by “Which Crossing” was the reply. Not being in the industry, I can only go by what I am being told and read with a hope that all are honest.
The feasibility study sounds like a good idea but is a mute point. I know both mayors, and I believe our Senators and Reps, have stated their support for the trail.
Again, I will check the record but I do not remember a monetary donation in the form of services, only $100,000 to make the track passible. I will see Mayor Allen tonight and will report back later on my findings.
Thank you for your response.

Left by Keith Bonds on May 15th, 2007

SD
Here is the Jordan quote. See, I even misquoted a response directed at me. He did not say if Carver would receive “reasonable” pricing, but the western connection could work.
Posted by on 04/10/07
If the Kellar Branch were made into a trail first, and the western connection remained the only way to serve Pioneer Park, then the only way to make it work would be to attract a large volume rail user (before closing the Kellar Branch).

P.S. Moot not mute. Sorry.

Left by Keith Bonds on May 15th, 2007

Keith,

Don’t think we haven’t been talking to our elected representatives. We have, and for a long time.

Here’s the offer from Pioneer to the City. There’s a lot of information on my blog about the Kellar Branch issue. I would especially recommend these articles for a comprehensive overview:

Kellar Branch Saga Summary, Pt. 1
Kellar Branch Saga Summary, Pt. 2
Kellar Branch Saga Postscript
CIRY Mutinies, withdraws request to close Kellar Branch
STB decides Kellar Branch dispute, reconsiders Pioneer ouster
Pioneer Railcorp ups Kellar Branch offer to $750,000

Left by C. J. Summers on May 15th, 2007

C.J.
Thank you for the info. I was talking of the speech given this year in Peoria Heights. This is where I heard nothing about a donation.
As I said, I am new to this. I have only paid attention for a couple of years and I am trying to catch up. I have read all of David Jordan’s blogs and appreciate his intellect.
SD,
I earlier made reference and found that I was in error. It seems I did not ask if Carver would receive a fair rate, whatever that means, only if the western connection could work.
Posted by on 04/10/07
If the Kellar Branch were made into a trail first, and the western connection remained the only way to serve Pioneer Park, then the only way to make it work would be to attract a large volume rail user (before closing the Kellar Branch).

Thank you for your response.

Left by Keith Bonds on May 15th, 2007

Keith,

We all appreciate your willingness to discuss this issue, and keep an open mind. Many in your camp will not do this. I’ve just been reading these comments and would like to make some historical observations.

First, there seems to be an attitude by some trail proponents that the Kellar Branch is in desperate need of repair and if significant rehabilitation is not performed, it will be unusable. There is some truth to this, but recall that longtime Peoria Public Works director Steve Van Winkle told the Peoria Journal Star for a Nov. 21, 1993 article that, “…the tracks are in dire need of maintenance and upgrading.” Nevermind that the Kellar Branch would subsequently remain in use for nearly TWELVE MORE YEARS, and without significant rehabilitation.

Second, PIRY did pour a reported $2 million into the line, including construction of a short “runaround” track by O’Brien Steel so they wouldn’t have to pull steel loads up to Peoria Heights to runaround them, haul them back down hill then deliver them to that steel company. They also put in a new switch at the Carver Lumber spur where P&PU had a derailment. They poured ballast and installed new crossties where the track needed the most work.

Most of this reported $2 million was undoubtedly poured into track and switch construction rather than rehabilitation. they did what was necessary to keep the track under the Federal Railroad administration’s “excepted track” standards (10mph for freight and no passenger trains). With the line’s long-term future uncertain, there was no need for an extensive rehab (or to force customers to repay the cost over a year’s time, as some foolishly suggest is a must).

Third, the Kellar Branch saw deferred maintenance going back to the days when it was owned and operated by the failing Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific RR (until 1980). That railroad deferred maintenance at least since the 1960’s (and possibly from the 1950’s), thus the Kellar Branch has been in poor condition for some FOUR DECADES, yet it continued to be used. Keep in mind that the Kellar Branch was beat up by some 5,000 carloads in 1978 (90% attributed to the now-closed Pabst brewery), but only a few hundred during city ownership. Obviously, the track isn’t abused as much.

Fourth, if PIRY is restored as operator of the Kellar Branch (possible by STB order), and the line’s future is assured, they will use their own funds to get the line back in operating condition. They will not ask for public monies to do this, so the cost issue is irrelevant anyway. PIRY sees the potential of the line and will make the necessary investments to see its potential realized. As traffic grows, rehabilitation will become economical.

The track will first be upgraded to Class 1 standards (10mph for freight and 15mph for passenger), allowing the inaugural of tourist trolley service. If commuter service is deemed feasible in the future, the line will be upgraded to Class 2 standards (25mph for freight, 30mph for passenger).

Fifth, restored operation of the Kellar Branch almost immediately brings two active customers - Carver Lumber and O’Brien Steel - and non-hazardous railcar storage (which PIRY did in 1999-2005). Plus, the new owner of the ready mix plant on Van Buren St. is said to desire rail service and CIRY’s latest letter to the STB claims they are working with a new shipper at Pioneer Park. PIRY could easily be serving FOUR users and handling at least SEVERAL HUNDRED CARLOADS ANNUALLY if restored as operator.

Hopefully, the STB wil restore PIRY’s operating authority and the PPD will decide to build alongside the Kellar Branch.

Left by David P. Jordan on May 15th, 2007

I wrote:

“Keep in mind that the Kellar Branch was beat up by some 5,000 carloads in 1978 (90% attributed to the now-closed Pabst brewery), but only a few hundred during city ownership.”

That should be “…but only a few hundred EACH YEAR during city ownership.

Left by David P. Jordan on May 15th, 2007

It’s funny how Peoria Heights cried and cried when Pabst closed, taking 600+ jobs away but now Peoria Heights thinks a trail will provide more economic benefits than real rail service? A brewery was important!

Quoted from the March 28, 2007 Peoria Heights Board of Trustees Special Meeting:

As the trolley presentation was made on March 12th, it was also a presentation for freight cars. The questions are, does the Board want to be in the trolley district? Does the Board want to have freight cars or high speed rail running through downtown Peoria Heights? Mr. Brown urged the Trustees not to be the organization that stops the trail, as rail, especially freight rail, does not have a place in the Central Business District of the Village.

http://www.villageofpeoriaheig.....gTrail.htm

Left by mdd on May 15th, 2007

“Does the Board want to have freight cars or high speed rail running through downtown Peoria Heights?”
Where is this “high speed rail” thing coming from? The trolley will do 15 to 30 mph. High speed rail is 70 mph and above. We never ever ever said anything about high speed rail on the Kellar Branch. It is not feasible, or necessary or wanted. I wish everyone would get those words out of their conversation in relation to the Kellar Branch.

Left by SD on May 15th, 2007

I thank you all for your insight and information. I hope that whatever decision is made, it is the right choice for Peoria.

David,
I do agree with and enjoy your knowledge of the subject. The cost to repair is irrelevant, but it does need repair.
Side by side suits me and many others just fine.Where else can you get that close to a train without tresspassing?
While I have your ear, is there a contract and is Peoria getting paid for the car storage on the tracks? Is there a fee for storing hazmat? Are the cars secured per code?

mdd,
I was at that meeting where the Mayor said he sees no future need of rail service in the Heights. I was not expecting that, just verification of support for a trail and not a trolley.
I was interested in a trolley when it was brought up but after a poor presentation and unbelievable info, I started to rethink the idea. I was told the nearest comparable city was in Wisconsin. I took a trip to Kenosha,WI to see their trolleys and met with their transportation director. Nice guy and very willing to help. He confirmed that the numbers put up by trolley supporters were not possible and showed me his numbers to run their system. I concluded that it is a neat idea, but not practicle.
Why did Pabst leave anyway? I was in grade school at the time and do not remember.

Left by Keith Bonds on May 15th, 2007

“He confirmed that the numbers put up by trolley supporters were not possible and showed me his numbers to run their system. I concluded that it is a neat idea, but not practicle.”

What part of removing urban infrastructure for a multimillion dollar tax payer supported luxury item is practical?

Left by BeanCounter on May 15th, 2007

Pabst brewery closed from corporate poli