250 thoughts on “D150, union at impasse (UPDATED)”

1. Jon, if 200 students need to take English 5 and 300 need to take English 3, what do averages mean? You can’t put special ed kids into enriched classes to make the averages come out right. For example, if there are 5 classes of English 3 with 30 in each class (150 students–more than a classload for one teacher), but 180 students need English 3. What are you going to do with the extra 30–put them in English 1, which they don’t need just to make the averages come out right. Putting kids in classes isn’t a matter of averages; it’s a matter of putting them into classes they need with teachers assigned to teach a particular class. Class sizes are probably a bit easier to manipulate in primary school, but high school (which is what is affected by closing Woodruff) is a much more complicated problem. You also have to worry about what hour a particular student has open for an English class, etc. That’s why I often ended up with 35 kids in one class and 15 in another because it was impossible to balance class size because of scheduling problems.
   To get the average class size of English and social studies classes, I would have to get the average for each course: English 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8. Finding the average for the total number is nonsense–except to put on a piece of paper where numbers do not equal reality.

2. OK, Jon, it didn’t take as much time as I thought it would (these figures do not include any special ed classes–just basic and enriched):
   English class averages:
   Peoria High – 23.3
   Richwoods – 23.8
   Woodruff – 23
   Social Studies Averages:
   Peoria High – 21
   Richwoods – 25.6
   Woodruff – 23.4

3. Jon: in all the years I have taught in D150, I have never had less than 21 students in my classroom. (elementary school). As far as high school classes, Sharon is correct. If you offer an English class, then you have to “man” it even if it only has 10-15 students in it, although I have never seen that happen. You know, as a taxpayer in this community, you have a right to know what you are paying for so go over to Wisconsin Ave. and have a nice long chat with someone that knows something since you don’t believe Sharon! Good luck with that…..

4. Jon, last year SKYWARD, INC 113,329.44. I don’t know the initial cost, but I think this may be a yearly cost.
   Jon, what does this mean, That alone comes out to an average of 13.4 students per teacher. Of course, teachers do and should have a prep period – let’s assume they only teach 5 of 6 total classes a day. That brings the average ratio down to 11.2 for the district as a whole.” Why would a teacher’s prep period change class averages–are you going to put a zero in for every teacher and average class sizes by 6 instead of 5–that would really skew class sizes in an unrealistic direction.

5. In my opinion, teaching should be the highest paid profession. I am not a teacher.

6. Sharon – I truly do appreciate what you are trying to do with understanding class sizes – you and I have had quite a few conversations over it – and I know that numbers aren’t exactly your thing 🙂 (nor is English and/or grammar mine)

   So, for your last question – If I take the total number of students divided by the total number of teachers, and I assume it takes one teacher to teach a class, and all teachers teach every period every day, I get what would be an average class size of 13.4 for the district as a whole. Granted, there may be some class sizes of 30 and some may be 5, but the AVERAGE would have to be 13.4 for all. However, we know that teachers have prep periods – thus they CAN’T be teaching all day long – every class period. Thus, the average would have to go down by 5/6th (assuming they teach 5 of 6 class periods). Again, nothing wrong with that – but it just gets us to a more accurate number – at least with the assumptions.

   Now, I very much appreciate the average class sizes for the NON-Spec Ed, but in order to compare data, such as with the state averages and/or other districts as reported in their district report cards, we have to compare the data in the same manner. That means we should include the special ed classes, since no district seemingly breaks that down (“normal” classes vs. special ed classes).

   So, with that in mind, are you able to state the average class sizes of ALL English and SS high school classes? So as to compare?

   Think of it this way: If the average of “regular classes is 25, but there are 20 students taught in “special ed” classes (say, two classes of 10 each), while the majority (25 of 45 students total) is in a class of 25, the AVERAGE is ONLY 15 (think (25 +10 + 10) / 3)

   What does that tell you? Again, MOST students may be in a class of 25, but the AVERAGE is only 15. WHY? Because the TWO small classes of 10, overwhelm the average since there is only ONE class size of 25.

   The response is to understand WHY there are thus so many small class sizes. Do we have TOO MUCH special ed? Do we over-diagnose? Do we have TOO MANY specialized classes, such as AP French in four different high schools?

   150teacher – if you want to leave it up to central admin to explain the numbers, you’ll get an average of 10. If you want to dig in to the numbers, you need to do it yourself. You might be surprised at what you find. While YOU may have had no less than 21 students, many of your colleagues have had far less. As a group that is contemplating striking, I think you should want to truly know and understand the numbers for yourself – and that does not mean solely understanding your own class experiences.

7. Jon – you said “…If I take the total number of students divided by the total number of teachers, and I assume it takes one teacher to teach a class, and all teachers teach every period every day, I get what would be an average class size of 13.4 for the district as a whole…However, we know that teachers have prep periods – thus they CAN’T be teaching all day long – every class period. Thus, the average would have to go down by 5/6th (assuming they teach 5 of 6 class periods).”

   Isn’t that backwards? Wouldn’t the average number of students per class go up if teachers have 5 classes and 1 prep each?

   Assume:
   1000 students in 6 classes per day = 6000 total student classes taken
   100 teachers with 6 classes = 600 classes taught = 10 students/class
   But
   100 teachers with 5 classes = 500 classes taught = 12 students per class.

8. Jon, the important question: Is there enough room at Peoria High and Manual for the Woodruff students. All your averages do not answer that question–and that is all that matters for next year. Nobody in 150 is dumb enough to assume that all classes at Peoria High have 10 people in them. The English and social studies classes have the numbers I have reported.

9. Sorry to all in advance for yet another long post…..

   Yes, spikeless, you are correct (I guess I was in too much of a hurry last night – or something else contributed to my not thinking clearly). DIVIDE 13.4 by 5/6th and you get 16.1 assumed for the district as a whole.

   Now, unfortunately the school report cards don’t show the average class size for every grade, but they do show the following:

   K- 19.2, 1st – 15.3, 3rd – 15.5, 6th – 17.1, 8th – 18.6 – which is an average of 17.1

   Generally, enrollments go down at D150 as the grades go up, especially in high school. As such the high school population is about 25% of the district as a whole. SO, if I have an assumed average of 17.1 class size for the 75% NOT in high school – what do I assume for an average class size in high school to get to the assumed 16.1 overall? On those assumptions, it would have to be 13 – whereas the report card shows it to be 10. Granted, there are a lot of assumptions there, but it does seem pretty hard for it to really be as low as 10. However, at 13, that’s very low, relative to other districts and the state as a whole. The state average for high school class sizes is 19.2.

   Now, Sharon’s data – which does NOT include special ed – comes out to an average of about 23. How the could average with spec ed possibly be 13, let alone 10 as the report card says? There are numerous possibilities, but here’s one that works and seems fairly reasonable:

   For every FOUR classes of 23, assume there are FIVE special ed classes of 5. That average class size comes out to about 13 – thus the huge impact spec ed (if truly that low) has on the average class size. With that assumption, there are approximately 20% of the kids (5 classes of 5 or 25 out of 117 total in the sample) classified as spec ed.

   It’s also difficult to see how many spec ed students there are – but based on test scores for IEP, in the 11th grade there were nearly 20% of students with an IEP out of the total students taking the tests.

   So, whether or not the average class size is high school is truly 10, or closer to 13 – it’s far less than the state average of 19.2. And while we can’t see what the state average for the percentage of IEP students is to compare to the nearly 20% average in D150, comparing different schools, such as Rockford or Springfield, you see that they have about 10% of their students with IEP’s. They also have average class sizes of about 20 (Again, the average class size reported on the school report cards includes special ed).

   How is D150 THAT different from Rockford or Springfield, such that the number of IEP’s is nearly twice the rate? Is it all the lead paint? I doubt the increase is due to autism or blindness, but rather the number classified as learning disabled. Yes, D150 runs some programs for the region and gets paid to do so, but is it really that different from Rockford or Springfield?

   Yes, Sharon – the data is as you reported for Eng and SS – except yours ignores all the spec ed students, correct? Maybe some of those smaller special ed classes will be grouped together in the same classroom? Such that you would have, let’s assume about 20 kids per classROOM – not necessarily per CLASS. However, back in September the pjstar showed Central could fit 2100 students (Woodruff was 1555). BUT it showed Central only had 51 class rooms – that’s an average of 40 per room! If that is correct, hopefully the plans include creating more classrooms from the space at Central (and begs the question, wouldn’t Woodruff have fit without any changes? – but that’s over with 🙂 ) You’re right, Sharon, if more rooms aren’t created at Central, there will be no space for the necessary classes – not in a normal schedule.

   Either way, even if we have enough space to fit kids in to their own rooms – financially, the district can’t afford to have average class sizes, with all the teachers (reg and Spec Ed) necessary to have a high school average class size of 13 (my number) or for the district as a whole to be at 16. (again, my number based on the total number of teachers and students) – not when everyone else seems to be doing it with an average of about 19 or 20. (I do believe that the state covers much, but not all, of the costs associated with spec ed students – i.e. it still costs D150 to have so many kids classified)

   I believe THAT is the primary mismanagement of D150 and THAT is why there are too many teachers for the number of students – (Remember, 10% decline in students since 2000 but only 1% decline in teachers) Isn’t THAT what the PFT is fighting for – job retention – not salary?

   That is NOT saying it’s the teacher’s fault – it just seems to me that D150 classifies nearly twice as many students as spec ed as does comparable districts, resulting in low average class sizes and probably poorly utilized facilities – all at a financial detriment to the district – and contributing greatly to a $9MM deficit.

10. Today’s PJS has this article that states that 24% of our student population is identified as Special Ed., as opposed to the 15% average in the state.

    http://www.pjstar.com/featured/x962895766/Co-teaching-integrates-special-education-students-in-traditional-classrooms

11. Jon, we’re getting closer–at least, you recognize that Peoria High might not have enough rooms. Thanks for the 51 number–I didn’t have that info. One other thing to consider is that most of Peoria High’s classrooms are small. When I have taught summer school there with 25 desks is a room, the desks were wall to wall–with no room to stand at black boards, no way for teachers to walk around the room. On the other hand, Manual’s rooms are large. BAM’s info about the 24% should be enlightening. Woodruff has 130 special ed students and 46 ELL (not sure what that means, but they are going to Manual). I don’t see how you’re going to get around the need for “too many” teachers given the large special ed population.

12. Thanks BAM – I wasn’t too impressed with O’Brian’s take on it:

    She’s not sure why D150 has so many more spec ed students – she’s only been there 3 years! But she does expect it to go down 🙂

13. One of the things I had heard was that we draw special ed students from other school districts in the area that aren’t equipped to teach that segment of their communities. Not sure if we are re-imbursed from other districts in that regard.

14. Every child that has an IEP is classified as special ed, even if the services they receive are not related to a special class placement. The far biggest chunk of special education services delivered in D150 are for students with speech/language impairments. Speech-language pathologists serve these children, either in the classroom or in “pull-out” types of services. There are over 30 SLPs in D150, and each can carry a caseload of 60 students, depending on school placement, severity of students’ needs, etc. That said, there are few, if any, kids with a primary disability of speech-language impairment that require special class placement. I would imagine the 24% reported in ISBE data included a large number of kids with speech-language impairments.

    Students can have special ed services for nine different categories of disability:
    mental impairment, learning disability, speech-language impairment, hearing impairment, vision impairment, other health impairment, physical impairment, and autism. Every child with an IEP for special ed services has some sort of designation for classroom placement (from regular division to self-contained special education classroom), and that determination is made on an individual basis.

    I’ll be curious to see how RTI will affect these numbers…time will tell.

15. Mary O’Brian is not a good leader in the district. She may have read about low income and urban school districts but she is not a practitioner. O’Brian does not work collaboratively with the district community and has not established and maintained a positive climate. Her knowledge is lacking, and heaven help the person that tries to help her by giving her the correct information. She has no idea what the principals and teachers do each and every day. She just does not get it. O’Brian needs to go. We need a special ed leader that understand our district and what is going on in the schools. Send her back to Towanda.

16. Mary O’Brian is another person who is best called “some other district’s reject” just like Cahill that Hinton drug in. Those people are stacked up as testimonial evidence for Hinton’s legacy evaluation! Among the stack is also his son in law in HR and Broderick – two more departed slurpees in the Hinton hog troff! A person has to wonder how many others loyal to Hinton who were elevated and paid high salaries such as the Title 1 director who came from Edison will fare in the light of day of a new administration. The BOE should have learned by now and should turn on the light at 3202 N. Wisconsin and watch the roaches scurry!

17. Strong1 – I would have to say Ms. O’Brian’s comments reported in the PJS support your position on her. After 3 years, why has she not begun re-evaluating those indicated as special ed. and either confirming the need to be so identified or otherwise correcting the matter.

    Perhaps Ms. Friberg should have been interviewed by the PJS, as she seems to have a better handle on the stats than O’Brian does.

18. Jon – you know I am almost always in your corner but I think your assumptions on high school class size are in error. The number of students in high school may be less, but high school is when the slicing and dicing of different class offerings begins. Whether it is different electives, special ed., AP classes, honors classes, IB, there are many small break out classes but, as Sharon has stated, the main English class, standard math, etc. are likely packed full.

    Your friend, Sharon, would need to FOIA this information but I imagine there are many classes held at Peoria High and Woodruff and Richwoods that are offered to accelerated learners that are almost as small as the special ed. class size, perhaps 6-8 students. That is why I think it would be cost beneficial, as well as, good for the students involved to be served out of one college prep high school.

19. Jon – Laura Petelle stated on her blog that information about the Washington Gifted application process will be provided at the Board meeting Monday. Can you or CJ (I realize you are in slow season) report here about what the changes are, please.

20. I wonder what the line U.S. CELLULAR $99,301.70 was for in the 2008-09 payments. There is no reason for the district to provide cell phones to its employees.

21. At tonight’s Godfather meeting, Laura Petelle assured us that Randy Simmons believes that Peoria High can hold 1800 students. I am not at all convinced yet. However, if it’s possible it will be under some very unpleasant conditions. As I’ve said before, teachers will be sharing rooms. A significant number of teachers will travel from room to room–a situation with many disadvantages. The teachers who will be “kicked” out of their rooms will have no place to go because they have no offices or lounges any more. If as Jon says there are only 51 rooms at Peoria High, then classes sizes will have o be 29. With 1800 students, class sizes would be 35. Please someone explain to me how the class size situation could be “rosier” than I am painting it. The discipline problems remain the major problem with this merger. Increased class size alone increases the chances of discipline problems. Merging the discipline problems of two schools doubles–probably triples the problems.
    Frustrated, the FOIAd information about enriched classes and even the IB surprised me because the class sizes are not all that small. I plan to FOIA the math and science classes because Laura stated that many of those classes are smaller–there is a good possibility of that. However, the course still have to be offered and it will be interesting to see how the merger helps the situation.
    Frustrated–why can’t Richwoods accommodate the college prep school for those who want a special program? Why does it have to be housed in a separate building? Actually, I thought that was the purpose of the IB program. Why should we have another program to compete with the IB program? Essentially, 150 will now have only two high schools: Richwoods and Peoria High. Manual is a choice school and, certainly, no college-bound students should be forced into a program designed for students with academic problems.

22. Frustrated, I’ll try and make the meeting tomorrow – I am obviously curious.

    As for class sizes, I’m trying to back in to the numbers to try and verify them – I took Sharon’s data that included basic AND enriched (so, AP and honors classes) albeit for Eng and SS only. If those classes you mentioned average as low as 6, to get to a 10 average overall, and using Sharon’s data, you would have to have THREE classes of 6 for every ONE of Sharon’s class of 23. Do you really think that 3 of every 4 classes has only 6 students on average? That part really doesn’t add up for me.

    Also, Frustrated, you know that Richwoods is a larger, at capacity school with nearly 1400 students. The claimed average class size for Richwoods alone is 10.1. I brought up this issue a few months ago on this blog and Steve P chimed in. At that time, the report card was for the prior year and the average was 14.1. Steve basically said no way – he didn’t have enough teachers for it to be truly that low, at least at Richwoods.

    Really now, if Richwoods can’t run more efficiently than having an average class size of 10.1, what hope is their for this administration? Or maybe that number really isn’t quite right? I’ve looked at dozens of other school districts and none has an average class size in the high school less than 17 – and most are at 19 or 20.

    So, as I said, I don’t think it’s quite as low as 10 – there just doesn’t seem to be enough teachers. However, I do think it’s still well below the state average of 19.2 – my ballpark guess is 13 maybe 14 – and yes, I think the over-classification of spec ed has a huge role in that, as well as trying to offer too many programs at too many campuses. So, yes, there should be certain efficiencies gained by consolidating high schools (or specializing them as you point out) and while that would mean some teachers would be cut, there seems to plenty of room to do so. Unfortunately, I just think the claimed size of 10 is wrong – and it causes the administration to (again) lose credibility, IMO.

23. Honestman, I want to thank you for your kind words and support of teachers (especially, now that I know who you are). My life is once again blessed by a former student.

24. Sharon, here is the link to the PJStar article about the number of classrooms. You have to scroll down to the bottom where there is a description of both Woodruff and Central detailing sq footage, number of classrooms, etc.

    http://www.pjstar.com/news/x1982375245/Peoria-High-or-Woodruff-How-do-they-pick

    honestman – I assume you went to the District Watch meeting – and that you have been there before. If so, I recollect you bringing up that issue a few months ago at one of those meetings. If I recall correctly, your point was that those employees are way overpaid (as you said on this blog again) and that essentially CAT busted the union back in the 80’s so that those lesser skilled jobs would no longer pay as much. (Which I assume you agree should be the case). However, D150 continued paying those high rates when they shouldn’t have – they continued to give out higher raises and hire in at higher salaries than what is competitive. They pay these high wages (relative to the positions) because they can – they are not good stewards of the public monies. But they do that AT THE EXPENSE of teachers and/or the students.

    IF SO, I don’t disagree – but it would seem those workers should also be taking a bite of this $9MM crap sandwich. The teachers have to and they will (pretty bad timing for contract negotiations) but somehow everyone involved needs to take a bite.

25. Jon, isn’t Brian Chumbley District 150’s number cruncher? Why not call him or FOIA someone to find out once and for all how 150 comes up with the 10 average. Also, Richwoods class sizes for English and social studies are comparable to the class sizes of the other high schools. The numbers on the Illinois Report Card always baffle me. For instance, for Manual now and when I was there, the attendance figure never seemed accurate to me. Last year Manual’s attendance rate was listed as 91%–the FOIA’d attendance records for 2nd semester of that year didn’t make that figure at all believable.

26. Sharon – I am not advocating a separate building. It makes sense to house “my” proposed college prep program at Richwoods. My point has always been that given the changing demographics of the District, the change in Manual’s curriculum, and the potential down the road to offer an enhanced vocational ed program at Central, that ALL college bound students throughout the District that are on an Honors/AP track attend one centralized location.

    The IB program is a specialized program of education which requires a student to take some Standard Level and some High Level course work and sit for external exams in order to earn the IB diploma. While it is an outstanding program it may not be the best option for some students depending on the college major they wish to pursue.

    The rub in my proposed college prep program is there would need to be some test or other filter to determine the students eligible for entrance into this program. The other issue is what about students that are in the Richwood’s attendance area but are not on a college prep track?

27. Frustrated: I guess I’m not quite ready to go back to the original plan in 150 when Peoria High was for college prep and Manual was indeed Manual Training High School–non-college bound. If we are going to end up with two high schools (which I see as a real possiblity because I don’t think Manual can sustain its enrollment much longer), maybe your idea will be a possibility–but the college-bound would not be a school of 1500 students. Of course, now that we have ICC many more students are actually college-bound but would not pass the sort of test you recommend.
    Jon, I don’t understand the statistics in the article to which you provided a link. It says PHS has a capacity of 2100 students and 51 rooms–now how is that possible?

28. Sharon, if I FOIA the info, won’t you find out who I am? 🙂

    Seriously, though, part of my concern is that I’ll be pouring thru even more information garbage. More importantly, though, it’s going to change greatly once Woodruff closes. Seems like it might be a moot effort. I had the good fortune to meet with Pam Schau and Laura P earlier this year and discuss various budget questions. I think Pam will do a fine job, but it seems like she has a bunch of crap to clean up. I’m not sure I want to add to what lies ahead for people like her, or Brian. Most of those at the top are gone – some others will likely go when the new Super comes in. However, if I were in the PFT, and that class size argument was being used against me…

    Transparency is a double-edged sword, is it not? Sometimes there are things you probably really didn’t want to know about your schools and your government…

29. Jon – I remember vaguely Mr. Steve P. chimming in about class size. I also remember, whether he stated it in this blog or a meeting I had with him this summer is that some IB classes are very small in number. So to, I would think advanced language classes. Somewhere something is wrong with the numbers, but I am confident that you will get to the bottom of it. Mr. P. is working on recruitment of more to the IB program, so hopefully those classes will contain more in the years to come.

    Regarding Richwoods at capacity. That is probably the biggest rub — that is, moving some students OUT of Richwoods that might be better served at one of the other high schools, so Mr. P. has a critical mass of students all headed in the same direction and can set policy and expectations, both with students and staff, accordingly.

30. No, because they don’t read the names of those who FOIA. Learning your identity in that manner hadn’t occurred to me. I’d FOIA the info but I already FOIA too much. What wouldn’t I want to know about schools? I agree about Schua–Laura did share some of that info with us tonight. I can’t believe how much has gone on without the board’s knowledge. I really feel that’s where many of the problems lie. The board is just uninformed and often don’t know enough 150 history to ask the right questions. The administration traditionally (and not just with this era) feeds the board only what they want the board to know.
    I do agree that the smaller classes are probably in languages, math, and science. However, two hours of the day–English and social studies–classes do have high enrollment. PE would be another with larger enrollment. I didn’t ask for all class sizes because I thought I might not be able to afford all that info–but I’ll try again with math and science classes. I just like “being in the know” so that we can share the info to keep the district transparent. I worked most of my years in District 150 with almost no access to information–it’s great now to be able to find out what is really going on so that we don’t have to believe everything we are told.

31. I admit that I didn’t expect the teachers to vote in such large numbers to strike. I thought that the district has too many non-tenured teachers who wouldn’t want to take the risk. Of coure, I wish them well. Their issues aren’t about money, and the issues such as class size affect students as much as they affect teachers.

32. I know I’ve seen your name, Sharon, on FOIA requests, as well as Diane’s – I think it’s in the meeting minutes posted on the district website – the same way that detail all the gifts to the district by name.

33. No, Jon, Hinton stopped publishing the names quite some time ago–not at the meeting or in the minutes–maybe that will change with Durflinger.

34. “We don’t set class size, but we want to be able to bargain it,” Darling said. “It’s just some of the other privileges, if those are taken away, why even have a union?”

    I was hoping he would elaborate to Haney in the PJStar article as to what other privileges are being taken away (or maybe Haney just didn’t report it – yet).

    At least the notion of class size was brought up. Even though Durflinger has been here only a short while, since he was previously the school super in Morton, I checked out their teacher’s contract to see what it said about class size.

    Oh, it doesn’t mention it at all. I guess class size isn’t something the teachers are able to bargain over in Morton.

35. Jon, Sharon, or anyone, the discussion about class size here has centered on High Schools. I would encourage anyone to stop into all middle and primary buildings and write down the # of students in each class and report back. You might be very surprised to see the numbers. It appears those two school settings are the ones the union is certainly discussing. When someone suggests placing almost 40 students in a class that not only lessens student achievement, it borders on safety concerns of the students as well. The best thing about heading out to the schools, is it could be done anonymously as well. Please report back to us with the findings.

36. Yes, Professor you are correct. Go over to Glen Oak. They have Kindergarten classes with 31 students in them. The administrations way of helping these teachers is to give them an aide. One aide for 4 teachers. There’s a big help. Remember, each K. child has to be individually tested, which takes about 20 minutes per child and is done by the teacher. These poor teachers are using up their prep periods (can’t prepare for a class if you are testing), therefore, they are spending hours upon hours at home preparing; cutting out shapes, organizing different activities because at a K. level you MUST COME PREPARED. So, here is just one example of why class size is crucial to the development and education of our children.

37. 40 kids to a class? WTF

38. I tried to encourage some people to FOIA class sizes at the primary and middle school level–I know you’re right. I wish someone would–150 simply isn’t into telling the truth or facing the truth. Money is all that matters–it will not be all about the children for a long time.

39. Jon, face it the tax base is just a bit better in Morton–I doubt that Mortonites would put up with large class sizes–just a guess. The parents in Morton pull a little more weight than do the teachers or parents in 150.

40. Sharon I would encourage you to enter the discussion on pjstar.com as well. Your insight is vast and would be welcome over there too. Didnt the teachers take a wage freeze 3 or 4 years ago too? I am glad to hear that finances are not at issue for teachers. I would say that the union is wise to adhere to another wage freeze and let the dist. finally answer that $$ is not what this is about. I pray that a child doesnt get harmed when they are in a classroom of 40+ students. Discipline is at wits end in most 150 buildings and I cannot imagine what increased class size will do. The district may want to err on the side of safety on this one.

41. I’ve visited the site–not sure that I can add much or change any minds, but I was just considering a trip back when I read your comments. Thanks for the compliment–if my insight is vast, it’s only because I’ve been around longer than most. The district believes that they have handled the safety issue–at least, that’s the impression I got at the November 30 meeting. They read a quote from a student who said she/he trusted 150 to keep students safe. I know that Wolfmeyer was elated that students had been contacted and had contributed this vote of confidence.

42. Is what the JS reported correct – do teachers not pay a premium for their health insurance?

43. if Im not paying for my insurance then WHY is money taken out of my check for it?

44. I honestly believe that teachers still pay part of the premium–at least, I did. Common sense would say that insurance that covers a family of five would be more expensive than that for a single person. Would it be fair to the single teachers if the district put out more money for the married teachers whose families are also covered? As a retiree, Medicare comes out of my Social Security pay (I am one of those old teachers who still gets to draw from Social Security) and I pay for my supplemental insurance out of my retirement benefits. I don’t know all the answer–just putting my thoughts out there so that facts can be discovered. As to retirement, I know that for many of my 43 years of teaching, I paid most, if not all, my own retirement. I believe that, at some point, teachers chose paid retirement over a salary increase. I’m still not sure if the district pays all retirement.
    I haven’t been able to get on the PJS comment site. I believe (but wouldn’t swear to it) that in 1973 (when I crossed the picket line) we didn’t actually teach while the others were on strike. I don’t think the strike lasted more than 2 or 3 days and I don’t think 150 attempted to hold classes. As I recall, not many parents sent their children to school. My memory may once again be failing me–maybe someone else as a better memory than mine.

45. Certainly much of the class size discussion has been about high schools – those are the ones seemingly most out of whack – and if so, that hurts the primary and middle schools. There’s only so much money to go around.

    The school report card data is a good place to start. It may not be 100% accurate, but it helps show trends and can be compared to other districts/state averages.

    In looking at class sizes of primary schools, what strikes me is how much VARIANCE there is between schools – and also from one class to the next in the same school. I’m sure that the 30% mobility has a lot to do with that – much of it seems to be within schools in D150 (not just transfers in/out of Peoria).

    To show that variance, consider the following reported class sizes (from last year):

    Garfield Kindergarten 25.0 – 1st Gr 17.0
    Charter Oak Kindergarten 24.7 – 1st Gr 25.7
    Harrison Kindergarten 16.3 – 1st Gr 10.2
    Kellar Kindergarten 15.3 – 13.6
    Whittier Kindergarten 20.5 – 1st Gr 14.2

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see Glen Oak with higher class sizes this year than those above – and again, maybe some of those numbers aren’t exactly accurate, given the 24% typically classified as special ed. But look at the variances.

    One of the arguments by a commenter on PJStar is that the real issue is about transferring teachers. Well, it may not be the best situation for anyone involved, but with that kind of variances in class sizes between schools and between one class to the next, it seems the administration needs that flexibility to be able to place teachers where there are students. Neighborhood schools are fine if the neighborhoods are stable. In D150 most are decidedly not. Several D150 schools have over 50% mobility. Think about that, less than half the kids who start in a school stay there by the time the school year is over.

    Maybe there are more implications to the transfers issue. Maybe if you’re tenured at Lindbergh, but the principal there thinks you aren’t doing much anymore, he can transfer you to Trewyn. Sure, you still have your tenure, but you’re opposed to working at Trewyn. It seems to me to be a good way to address problem teachers (yes, the eye is in the beholder) without directly tackling tenure. Maybe it’s just a way to give the administrators some more control over the workforce so their hands aren’t tied when trying to improve schools. I’d like to see Randy Simmons and others have their hands freed.

    Sharon, the tax base has less of an impact than many think – at least when it comes to the amount spent on students. The state and feds contribute much more to D150 (50%) than to Morton (20%). Thus, the total spent on each D150 student is $11,398 vs. $9,644 in Morton. What Morton has is children with less needs and a stable community.

46. Jon, another factor to consider–when were the numbers reported for the Illinois Report Card? Laura Petelle told me last night that PHS’s numbers have increased since the beginning of the year–the figures on which the district is basing its plans for next year. You’re right about Morton–but, of course, all studies seem to indicate that children with fewer needs in a stable community usually live in areas of higher economic status. I’m sure the variance in class size has much to do with who shows up to school–there may be more first graders one year than there were the year before. I’m not at all sure how schools can plan for these unknowns. If 35 students show up for 1st grade, should a principal put all 35 in one class or make two classes of 18 and 17?
    About the transfers. No one says teachers can’t be transferred; the issue is about the fairness of the transfer policy and the reasons why teachers are transferred. I’ll use Terry Knapp has an example of the old days. Because Terry made trouble for the superintendent, Terry was transferred from Woodruff to Harrison (it was a punishment). From then on, Harrison became known as the school where teachers were sent for punishment. That punishment was money in the bank for Terry. Principals used the transfer opportunity either to get rid of teachers or to threaten them. Of course, all this is becoming very important for next year with the closing of Woodruff. The district wants to be able to move the high school teachers around with no regard to guidelines–do whatever makes them feel good. In the long run, the kids lose because these decisions aren’t usually based on what or who is best for students–the decisions are more often based on who is the principal’s friend and who is the principal’s thorn in his/her side. I know you can present all kinds of arguments in favor of the principals and/or central administration having their unfettered choice–but I’ve seen how reality works.

47. I notice that the discussion on here is always pertaining to bad teachers. I would guess that in any profession, there are some that are not as good as others. The majority of teachers in 150 are quality individuals and provide great relationships and learning environments for their students. It is a shame that the focus seems to always be to the minority of teachers, rather than the positive ones. With that being said, I would argue that parents who do realize how great a job their childs teachers do with them and have made a positive difference in their lives, would certainly like to maintain that relationship of learning throughout the school year. Making a teacher leave to break up that bond certainly doesnt seem like it is in the best interest of the student. Know one has answered yet, did the teachers take a wage freeze 3 or 4 years ago and arent they currently in the midst of another freeze? Also if I recall correctly the administration took a freeze a few years too right, but then retro paid themselves? I guess I could google it….

48. Professor: I think I mentioned the retro administrative raise somewhere on this blog within the last couple of days–that was a big show. The teachers took the freeze but they weren’t able to give themselves the wages that were lost–the administrators were able to pull that feat off (probably when the public had lost interest).

49. Professor – one bad apple spoils the bunch. There are many, many great teachers – but the union protects the crappy ones to the detriment of the rest.

    Yes, everyone would prefer to keep teachers and students together for the entire year – would prefer to see kids stay in the same positive school environment from one year to the next. Unfortunately, that is not the reality D150 faces.

    Sorry no one is answering your questions about the wage freeze (I was confused because you last said “I am glad to hear that finances are not at issue for teachers.” I guess I didn’t realize it was still an issue for you). Yes, it might help if you attempted to look up the information.

    Sharon, as for the numbers, they are based on the first class day in May. For the most recent report card, that would be May 2009 for the 2008/09 school year.

50. Jon, I just answered the question about the wage freeze–the teachers accepted the freeze as did the administration but soon after the administration got a raise and the “freeze” pay back with retroactive pay. How is that for “good” faith negotiations? Really, May–at the high school level, I believe, enrollment is always down at the end of the year. I admit that’s a problem for 150–large classes at the beginning and then kids drop out (usually to return again the next semester or the next year). It makes planning on the basis of class size very difficult. Professor, I have had this discussion about the “bad” teachers several times. Jon refuses to accept the fact that principals who take the time to build a case against a teacher can fire the teacher. They can fire any teacher without even building a case–if they believe they have a case that can withstand legal action. The union does not get to decide who stays and who leaves–it can only support the teacher with legal help. Jon, how many District 150 teachers do you know? How many of them are “bad” teachers? Do other parents agree with you that these are “bad” teachers? Have you reported the inadequacies of these teachers? Please define the characteristiscs of these bad teachers for all of us.

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