250 thoughts on “D150, union at impasse (UPDATED)”

1. Oh yes, Sharon, I’m coming out of left field with my rant against tenure – at least the way it’s currently set up. Arne Duncan, Michael Bloomberg even President Obama think it needs to change because it is TOO difficult to weed out poor teachers.

   Here’s some data, courtesy of Merle Widmer:

   An article in the JS on 12/5/05 reads “Study: Tenure Means Job Security”. It proceeds “Illinois teachers are rarely fired if they have tenure; it’s next to impossible for Illinois teacher to lose their jobs”. The article states that strong teachers unions and high costs related to legal appeals often scare many school districts form getting rid of even the worst tenured teachers.

   “Of the 95,000 tenured teachers employed in the state an average of only two per year are fired for poor performance. Another five a year are fired for misconduct. Public bodies are “plain out scared” to fire even the worst performing person because of fears of excessive litigation costs. 7 fired out of 95,000??”

   Poor performers, however that is defined by whomever, exist in every occupation. They are just unlikely to be fired if they have tenure. It’s not about individual teachers I think should be fired or even what I think they should be fired over. It’s about a system that is broken.

2. I see valid points on both sides.

   Teachers do not pay any premiums for individual health care coverage. Not too many professions where employees do not have to pay anything.

   Teachers get reimbursed for taking classes and then the district has to pay them more since then move up on the salary scale. They should only get bumped up when they complete a degree.

   One extra hour of work a week is not a big deal. Welcome to the real world.

   Unions do protect bad teachers. Sorry Sharon, but it is very difficult to get rid of third and fourth year teachers and almost impossible to fire a tenured teacher. Unless you have been an administrator you really don’t understand how tough it is.

   On the other hand, concerning transfers, the administration has demonstrated that they are capable of retaliation when staff do not follow the company line. I understand why the teachers are concerned about this.

   Very difficult situation. Hope it all works out. Wish folks would look objectively at both sides.

3. Jon does everything someone says have to elicit a smarmy comment. Most have tried to having basic conversations here yet you continue to try to nit pick. I would ask that you simply acknowledge and discuss items. As for your comment about one bad apple, then I am waiting for the discussion and expectations to be the same for admin. Somehow that seems to be lacking here. And they dont even have a union so I would think most here would demand change from them. Actually if admin. wanted to make a statement wouldnt they simply fire all their consultants, eliminate edison, and remove many of the upper administration posts that have been created in the past few years. Lead by example…

4. To address the “teachers dont pay insurance” that is not true. They do not pay premiums according to everything I have heard and in fact they do pay co-pays, have a deductible, and have to pay whatever the insurance does not cover. To my knowledge, and please correct if I have misinformation, the teachers USED TO have to pay premiums until THE DISTRICT bargained for them to move from a self-funded program to the districts fully funded option. Someone from past bargaining teams or a teacher could go into more depth I am sure. So when the public spouts off some of this information I would think that they need a full picture of things. I do appreciate people like Jon though for continuing the discussion because I think it only benefits the teachers stance even more as most will see him as closed minded and that appears to be exactly what the teachers have claimed their administration is doing to them. Keep up the great work Jon and teachers please keep giving your side. This might be the best way to get your information out to the public and really make them understand how your administration is acting.

5. Also we get it teachers have a union, most people who arent part of a union dont like them etc…Unfortunately teachers arent the only group in the world that has unions. Deal with it and move on. That isnt going to change in 150, nor the world in the immediate future. The question is how can 150 save face, get the union and admin together again to bargain, and get this solved. Anyone who continues to gripe about unions isnt helping the cause. Move on. Let’s hope for the best and as taxpayers request that 150 admin. go back to the bargaining table and at least try to work towards an agreement.

6. OK, admittedly I hesitated when I posted a few “smarmy” comments earlier. Obviously I wrote them anyway.

   As for “nit picking” I would call that picking apart an argument. For example 🙂

   You essentially scold me for being smarmy – then immediately post a comment with “smarmy” things to say to me. Oh well, the point is nonetheless taken and I’ll try not to be so sarcastic – going forward.

   But seriously, what is close minded about what I’m saying? Are they many good teachers? Absolutely. Do most work far more than their contract minimums? Yes. Are there too many administrators? Of course. Fortunately many from the top are now gone. More will likely be gone when a new super comes in.

   Professor, you keep saying that more will come out as to why the teachers may strike. What is it? Yes, please get the information out to the public – as it stands now they aren’t saying much. I’d love to hear more of their side.

   As for unions, it was Darling who said, “It’s just some of the other privileges, if those are taken away, why even have a union?”

   CAT still has unions – but how strong are they now? As a taxpayer, I don’t want to see dollars wasted. Why is it that government employees are 5X as likely to be unionized? Why is it that union membership is down to 12% of the U.S. workforce? That downward trend is hardly irrelevant.

   Professor, you said it seems wasteful to require teachers to work more but that it not equate to more instruction time (other than for the primary students). Shouldn’t the district be asking for additional instruction time then? Let’s face it – they’ve been at this for 8 months and have used mediation and this is where they’re at. An impasse.

7. See both sides: Teachers don’t get bumped up for taking individual classes. I believe the raises come after 15 hours and that teachers have to be working on a degree for the courses to count–at least, the first round. My memory again is hazy on the details. The Professor clarifed the insurance situation–I believe the change came after I retired.
   Jon, I know you prefer numbers, statistics, etc., as the way to assess the situation. That’s OK to a point, but numbers never are reality. I’m just trying to remember how many “bad” teachers I ran into in my lifetime. I can think of several from my own high school years (my own fallible perception)–that was before there was a union. However, they didn’t destroy my life, etc. Maybe, during my own career I can think of a few who probably weren’t the best but they didn’t warrant firing, and it was a long time before unions carried any weight in 150; at the time of the 1973 strike we didn’t have to belong to the union and PEA and PFT were rival groups. We could choose to belong to either one or none–principals had nothing to fear. Honestly, I can’t remember any principal trying to fire any teacher. I do believe that most of the really unqualified people (the ones who really did not like kids or teaching) removed themselves before they ever got tenure. I asked you for personal information because most of the strong feelings people hold against teachers have been formulated from personal experience–not from statistics. I know it’s a prejudice of mine, but I often have a hard time listening to some parental concerns about teachers. More often than not they deal with some personal grudge about how they preceive that their own children have been treated unfairly–and quite often the complaints have been on very minor issues and one-time issues. If the system works correctly, parents should have an avenue for registering their complaints. Principals then should more objectively investigate and weigh the concerns to see if they have merit–especially, to see how widespread the complaints are. I must admit that in my career I had very few parental complaints against me–that I can recall. And those that were leveled against me were almost always resolved after I had a chance to talk to the parents–usually they were misunderstandings. However, I always felt parents had a right to bring their complaints to me personally or to school personnel. I was even capable of admitting when I was wrong, etc. All of these situations were learning experiences–parental feedback and student feedback are ways that teachers can assess how they are perceived–and often this feedback leads to changes in the teachers’ methods, etc. That feedback is much better than that of principal evaluations–in my opinion and experience.
   In the case of the Chicago schools and in other big cities, I do believe that teachers with very poor teaching credentials have been hired. I believe that in 150 (just a belief), those who hire have paid attention to the grades the teachers have earned and have been able to hire teachers who did well in college. That part of the process is very much in the hands of the principals and/or administration–they can be careful to hire only teachers who have good credentials. I will continue to state that tenure has more benefits to the system (not just to teachers) than does a system without tenure, and the rest of you can continue to disagree–it’s America. I am beginning to sense that many non-teachers are just not happy with their pay and benefits–it’s not that teachers get too much; it’s that others are not treated fairly. Of course, in 150 the equity with other jobs just came into being in the last 10 years for teachers. Now you all want to take it away.

8. Unfortunately, I cannot attend the BoE meeting tonight as I have another commitment. Hope it is a productive meeting and that BoE members have open minds and ears, and that all speakers choose their words wisely.

   I was so impressed by the number of non-tenured teachers who are willing to strike even though the odds are they will not be called back next year. I was not around Peoria in the ’70s when the last strike occurred, but I wonder what the percentage was in favor of a strike when the vote was taken. This percentage seems very high.

   my thoughts on:
   Transfers — Transferring a teacher any time except between school years would be very detrimental to students at both the school the teacher leaves and the school they move to. I don’t understand how student mobility during a school year can be used as an excuse to move teachers mid-year. Think about it.

   Class size — Enough has been said that most thinking people understand that large class sizes, even if necessitated for financial reasons, are NOT optimal for student achievement. And there seems to be a lot of disparity in the class size numbers that are available. This is particularly ill-considered when the student population has the risk factors that D150 students have in large numbers. And I am specifically talking about student achievement, not discipline.

   Insurance — I know that the move from the self-funded to the public funding that was negotiated by the administration was done to save money. As I understand it, and according to contract language for other bargaining units, the district agreed to pay a certain amount of dollars per individual towards their insurance premiums (not co-pays, deductibles, etc.) and the employee paid the difference. If the per-year cost of the premiums was less than the amount of the premiums for that year, the employee paid no cost for the premiums. I know that that is the case for the paraprofessional, clerical and cafeteria bargaining units. They have not had to pay extra for their premiums for the last 2 years, because the total dollar amount agreed to in contract negotiations and agreed to by the district ended up being less than the yearly cost for the premium. If the premium cost went up, employees would pay the difference. Also, the dollar amount for district contributions to premium costs is a negotiating issue with each contract. That amount can go up or down, it is part of the total process.

   Please remember, this impasse was called by the administration, not the teachers. They are not dictating the timing of these events. IT IS NOT ABOUT $$. It is about class size, transfers, and other issues that are legitimate bargaining issues. The 6% raise for retirees is a specific program that is a retirement incentive. It has very specific conditions for teachers to adhere to.

   Hopefully a strike will not occur. But if it does all sides will have to deal with the consequences.

9. I think most of us have other commitments that will keep us from attending tonight’s BOE meeting–but I will be recording these “as usual” momentous events. Hot in the City–thanks for the clarification about the current insurance situation.

10. Jon my example of longer day is to show you the misguided logic of the district. They cant even figure that out. First they tell the public SHORTENING the day is beneficial for Student Achievement (Wacky Wed.). Then they say longer day is better, but NOT WITH KIDS, rather for Professional Dev. that most buildings under utilize currently according to others on this site. Finally my point is, and teachers feel free to chime in, my guess would be that actually working WITH KIDS longer might increase some achievement, rather than simply sitting in another meeting. This is one example of how 150 admin. just doesnt get it. Hot in the city I think you said it very well too. Sharon I love your posts but when they are that long makes it tough to read 😉 Honestly I dont have this information but when others cite outlying districts hours, are those WITH KIDS, or simply meeting times built in?

11. OH OH! I have a few bad apples in my family!

12. Professor: Who was it that said, “I would have written you a short letter, but I didn’t have time”–hence, the long letter. I will try (have always tried) to take your advice. 🙂

13. INSTANT CLASSIC!!!! I love it! Perfect that since administration wont ever listen to the public, why show up and waste your breath. Good Job teaching staff!!! Wonder if they had added security tonight and such LOL! FYI…..the teachers are serious people. And Wolfmeyer seemed a bit flustered too. Hey Mrs. Wolfmeyer you might want to lighten up before people bring about your past quotes when you were representing clerical staff and were anti-administration….Jon get on that for us will you 😉

14. Would have liked the presentation of the renovation of LMS to be viewable by the public.

15. BAM nah just trust ’em it is fine 😉

16. Did a BOE member say tonight that the number of Chinese learning English outnumbers Americans learning English? China exceeds the U.S. population by about 1 billion.

17. Hey Jon, can you or someone else tell me what was discussed about Washington Gifted?

18. In order to be in compliance with recent state School Code statute regarding gifted programs, Washington Gifted will be available to all students who reside in D150 boundaries, regardless of where they go to school. A such, a student no longer has to attend a D150 school to go to Washington, but can come from private and parochial schools – or home-schooled, as long as they reside in the boundaries.

    The district website should have the application to Washington available tomorrow. Students will need to apply by Jan 15. On Jan 23, a IQ type test will be given to interested students who do not go to D150 schools, to be administered at Washington Gifted. The cost is $40. The students will also make their own arrangements with Bradley for their particular test at a cost of $60 paid to Bradley.

    Teacher evaluations will still be used – though it was unclear (in my mind) if/how that would work for students outside D150. The process will continue to not identify the students by name – though I wonder if the name of the teacher giving the evaluation is known. Perhaps the application will give more details.

19. So, Jon, could you have been that one person sitting behind the podium to the right of Dave Barnwell? It was fairly hard to hide in the audience tonight. 🙂

20. Jon –

    Thanks for the update. I think the District seems to have arrived at a fair process. I would not worry about teacher evaluations, as I think the test scores of BU are heavily relied on.

    The one thing the District will have to be vigilant about is confirming those applying legitimately reside within the District’s boundaries.

21. Sharon – you are too funny. Scoping out the room for the identity of bloggers. I would be doing the same thing.

22. Frustrated: Jon has been discussing his identity for quite some time–saying that he would introduce himself the next time at a meeting. Apparently, he has been at meetings at Godfather’s before. In a post yesterday, he told you he would be at the meeting tonight. Because all teachers–and the rest of us, too–boycotted the meeting, a “stranger” was failry easy to spot. Of course, Jon could have gotten the information about Washington the same way I did–watching TV. I don’t think too much about the identity of bloggers except when I think they might be people that I already know–but they usually make themselves known to me. Anyway, Jon, you may still be a “mystery” person. This blogging world does have its intrigue and it’s fun.

23. There sure didn’t look to be many people there, but no, I wasn’t to the right of Dave Barnwell.

    I do wonder if the PFT and their supporters will be boycotting the Dec 21 Committee of the Whole meeting when the charter school is discussed. Hopefully I’ll be able to make that meeting in person.

24. I’d be satisfied Jon, to know your occupation. You are comfortable with data but you like to argue too? ? ? Can’t you throw Sharon and I a little bone and tell us what you do, at least.

25. Frustrated: When do we get the “bone” about your identity? 🙂 I often wonder how I would have pulled off trying to be an anonymous blogger. I just don’t think it would have worked for me.

26. I used to be indirectly employed by the District and thus do not want to reveal my identity. I never tell tales out of school (no pun intended) related to knowledge I gained through this employment relationship. I blog from the perspective of a former “frustrated” 150 parent and Peoria community member, and believe my views reflect those of many of my friends and acquaintances with children in the District. I am not sure adding my real name into the mix would give me any greater credibility, as I am no one special (as the Peoria pecking order goes), other than a concerned parent and citizen.

27. Apparently I’m going to be a substitute teacher in the near future 🙂 🙁

    I prefer to keep my details largely unknown, too. When someone mentions their occupation, I think people often have pre-conceived notions about whatever that occupation might be that can detract from the argument/discussion. The reality, to me, is that the background of the person making the argument shouldn’t matter at all, but rather the strength of the argument on its merits alone. Too often, the argument is dismissed based on the person making it, rather than the argument itself. That serves no one and it’s a difficult trap to avoid.

    That doesn’t mean understanding someone’s background isn’t also helpful. That works for Sharon for example – just not for me.

    Besides, it just wouldn’t be as much fun if the mystery wasn’t there. Incidentally, I am not an accountant nor an attorney.

    Now, that doesn’t mean I won’t try and introduce myself the next time I see Sharon, but she’ll probably walk away just knowing that I’m some guy named Jon – albeit with a face to go with the name.

28. Do current students in District 150 have to pay an additional $40 or $60… for a test?

29. No Mahkno – though there was a brief discussion about that rationale – I think it may have something to do with the notion that any state monies for the gifted program is not based on the number of students actually enrolled in the program (but I don’t understand how/why that’s relevant). However, it sounded like there would be a process for the fees to be waived for individuals would would otherwise qualify for free/reduced lunch.

30. I posted my rationale on Petelle’s blog as to why I believed students not currently attending a District school should NOT have their fees paid for. I think it is really more about the integrity of the selection process than about the $$$.

31. Frustrated: I understand–I have no problem with anonymous bloggers; I couldn’t have been this open if I were still a teacher. Jon, I guess that’s my problem–your preconceived ideas of my occupation. 🙂 Of course, I wouldn’t walk away. Mahno: District 150 students do not have to pay anything. Students who do not go to District 150 schools (but live in District 150) have to pay, so Gorenz asked what would happen if a student who didn’t attent 150 didn’t have the money. That’s when the student would have to prove that he’s eligible for free lunch. Then apparently the fee would be waived.

32. “Students who do not go to District 150 schools (but live in District 150) have to pay”

    Clarification, kids who do not go to District 150 schools have to pay TWICE. We pay once via our taxes which we pay regardless where the child goes and apparently again when our child wishes to apply to attend.

    This is wrong. My tax dollars already paid for that test. The amount isn’t so much the issue (at least for me) as the principle of it. Either everyone normally pays the surcharge, or they don’t.

33. Did any of you catch the young lady that spoke about altercations with teachers? I thought she made some very valid points. Apparently, so did some of the admin. She is right, though. When there is a verbal altercation between two students, both students are suspended, regardless of who started it. When the altercation is between a teacher and a student, the student is ALWAYS wrong, according to administration! However, sometimes, teachers make mistakes too.

    Also an interesting discussion about suspended students being on school property. And that all stemmed from the DCFS counselling contract they asked about. Martha is right on.

34. I agree with you Jon. Blogs work for me because there are no pre-conceived notions. Instead of looking (and judging) the person who is talking, readers are forced to look at their words. Too many times when a concern about an issue is raised, others spend more time trying to read between the lines and speculate on hidden motives rather than considering the actual issue. Example: when the concern was raised about the reading exceeds decline (31 to 52% depending on the year), whispers were heard “so is she saying her kids aren’t getting a good education?” That tactic is called putting words (false ones) in another person’s mouth and it speaks volumes about the perceptions of the accuser. IMO.

35. Someday when the timing is right, I am going to reveal my identity likewise. 😉

36. It will be interesting to see how many parents send their students to school if a strike is called.
    Will parents be criticized for sending their children to school?

37. How many parents will have paid enough attention to know that there was a strike underway? Less than you might think. Unless they are picketing at the bus stop… ah heck… most of those parents probably don’t even see their kids off.

38. “This is wrong. My tax dollars already paid for that test.”

    some wouldn’t agree. i think your tax dollars paid for the availability of public education. it’s a public good, like the military or public defenders. if you want to use a specific service, there is a fee. adds to the voucher argument, no? 🙂

    Carrie W – why would a parent send their child to a striking school?

39. “How many parents will have paid enough attention to know that there was a strike underway?”

    There’s a strike underway, really?

    I thought it was just a minority of the total teachers gathering to publicly air lounge invective. And, what DID they actually vote for? A maybe, potentially gonna strike? Or was it, if you cross this line, we’ll maybe strike, maybe?

    To be honest, I’m actually quite daft on WHAT, exactly, the teachers did on Sunday night because from my perspective it was ‘we may strike, but only if something else which is unidentifiable happens, and only then, AFTER our insurance for January is in place’.

    Is that close?

40. Dangling……if a strike were to occur, what would you propose to those families who cannot afford to stay at home or pay for childcare while the so-called “grown-ups” are hashing out their differences?

    Please share the script we should read to our children to explain why (if this happens) their teachers aren’t going to be there to teach them?

41. Carrie, I suppose that it’s much the same as in a divorce–the children might feel that they were the cause of the “break up” when, of course, they aren’t the cause. First of all, tell me how many children would be really upset if they had to stay at home from school? Undoubtedly, how the children feel will depend upon what their parents tell them. If you want to blame the teachers, the children will probably follow your lead. If you want to tell them the teachers need your support, children will probably feel the same. You could tell your children that if the teachers don’t strike, there will be more children in their classes from now on and that the teachers won’t have as much time to answer their questions or to help them when they need help. I understand the problem about the childcare situation–I hope District 150 administrators understand, also–they didn’t care when they planned Wacky Wednesdays. Of course, you may have the option of sending your children to school if enough adults in Peoria are available to teach–after 150 does the background checks, etc.

42. If you send your children to school, in the event of a strike, then they will sit in the gym all day long, except for lunch, watching movies…….guaranteed! So, yes, it will be a free babysitting service……via the principal and assistant principal.

43. How will a strke affect the wages of the bus drivers, cafeteria workers, non-teaching personnel? Will they be paid if teachers strike?

44. TR64, I would assume–but maybe I shouldn’t assume–that since they are union workers, they will support a union strike. As to whether or not the district will pay them if they work or if they will ask them to work, I don’t know. If schools stay open, these workers will be needed, so I don’t really know how that would play out. In the past, there was sometimes a problem with deliveries of food, etc., if the delivery people were union. It’s uncharted territory–hasn’t happened since 1973.

45. The other unions may have no strike clauses in their contracts, so they wouldn’t be able to join their union brethren on the strike line.

    Some parents may need to send their kids to school so that they can go to work to pay for their housing and food and such. Keeping their children home is not beneficial to the family.

    Others may send their children to school, as a way to teach them that this is one way of dealing with differences in the real world. That is why we sent our children to school in Indiana during a strike.

46. Please don’t forget that the teachers who strike will be losing money to pay for their housing, food, etc., also–they probably will not get that money back; they didn’t in 1973. A strike is a sacrifice, especially now since there will be no financial gain as a result of the strike. I believe the reimbursement for classes may have more to do with which classes will be reimbursed rather than no reimbursement–I’m not sure what the administration has in mind.

47. I just received an e-mail from someone more knowledgeable than I am on the subject (I wasn’t paying attention in 2000):
    “No Strike Clause” incorporated into all the district’s collective bargaining agreements subsequent to 2000. Basically, that means that if the clerical unit went on strike, the teachers would still report to work and not participate in any strike activity during work hours. Likewise, if the teachers do go out, the other bargaining units will have to cross the picket lines and work their regular schedule. The language does not preclude any employee from walking the picket lines outside of their regularly scheduled work day.”

48. “Some parents may need to send their kids to school so that they can go to work to pay for their housing and food and such. Keeping their children home is not beneficial to the family.”

    and what do these parents do in the summer? this ‘school as day care’ mentality has to stop, it’s crazy.

    people criticize government for not living within it’s means, but FAIL at modeling the behaviour they so vehemently demand.

    if you can’t afford child care, stay home. if you can’t afford to stay home, scale back. what is it driving the household expense base that prohibits this simple axiom from being realized in countless homes today?

49. ed – excellent points!

50. Boy Ed, I don’t know where you have been but these days young families need both partners to be working to make ends meet. Also, there are many single parent families in the District, so they must obviously work. Have you not been reading the papers??? Women hold the majority of the jobs in the workplace with the downturn in the economy.

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.