107 thoughts on “Education Forum to be held this week in Peoria”

1. Frustrated, you miss Adkins-Dutros’ whole point and your own that you made on Emerge’s blog. Jeff would not say there’s anything wrong with the test for the college bound–the way it used to be when he was in college and only the college-bound took the test. But Illinois has chosen to use it as the NCLB test. I can remember when MHS’s ACT scores were very high–and then you find out that only a minimal number of students took the test.

   Didn’t you just say on Emerge’s blog that one size doesn’t fit all. There are many students who will be a success in life (as they and many other middle class people define success) without ever getting a high score on the ACT. Yet NCLB sets this high standard for everyone and the standard for whether or not a school has prepared a student for life. Jeff’s contention has been that the true worth of a school’s worth would be to find out what its students are doing in 10 years.
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   Also, your daughter and her friends probably do much better on the test because they, as students, are immersed in the subject matter every day now. Your sample of students is a very small one indeed. What is the range of ACT scores at Richwoods alone. Are you saying that students who cannot pass the ACT test–as the only determining factor–should not graduate from high school?

2. Jon, I know that you would beat me in math hands down. I might make a fairly good showing in English. I have seen the sample ACT tests–I know that. However, I have nothing to prove–I am happy I can still write a complete sentence and have not reached total senility yet.

3. Frustrated, for instance, A-D’s teenage daughter, who is in the IB program at Richwoods, and I often watch Jeopardy together. She frequently knows answers to questions that I can’t answer and then she’ll tell me in what class she just learned the material. And, thank goodness, of course, I can sometimes answer questions that she can’t answer. But all this learning is a daily process with students–the rest of us will tend to forget, over time, some of the ACT tested material that we don’t use on a daily basis in our lives. Fortunately, I lived in a time before ACT tests were required. Isn’t it amazing that in those days schools still produced high-performing students (not implying myself) before all this testing ever ocurred. However, I did have to take whatever test that is required for entrance to a master’s degree program at Bradley–but not to get into Bradley as an undergrad.

4. Jon, since you say you analyzed the data for Washington, I was wondering if you would provide the 5-number-summary. Did you identify any outliers?

5. If you provide the quartiles, I can calculate the IQR.

6. Sharon – I am just taking what A-D said at face value. I think ACT scores at a school ABSOLUTELY matter. When I am considering a new school for my children, which I am often doing these days, the first thing I seek out is the ACT or SAT average for the school and then I go from there. Where you find strong ACT scores you find challenging curriculum, varied academic offerings, lots of foreign language choices, strong sports and arts programs, and typically a controlled student body in terms of behavior.

   However, I don’t think ACT scores are a valid measure, taken in isolation without consideration of other measurements, as to how a school is educating the population it serves and should not be used to dole out state and federal dollars.

   My point was that parents often don’t get the real truth from schools as to how their child is performing and if they are truly on track for college. “Meeting standards” on the ISAT test, IMO, does not mean a primary student is on track for college — a student needs to be exceeding standards to some degree. And if a student cannot score in the mid-twenties on the ACT, then they are going to have difficulty gaining admission into a 4-year college and will likely be locked out of more competitive universities. Unfortunately, many parents and students find this out too late to make adjustments.

   Regarding, A-D teen daughter – what is she a 9th or 10th grader? I bet she could sit and take the ACT today without preparation and score in the mid-20s and she probably hasn’t even yet completed all the course work required to perform best on the math and science sections of the exam. The ACT or SAT does measure learning, analytical abilities, test-taking abilities, and therefore, college readiness.

7. Frederick–glad to hear that you went to the meeting tonight. New voices are always good and welcome.

8. She is a sophomore (the young lady about whom I was recently bragging since she went to state in speech for poetry reading). And my guess Jeff wouldn’t disagree with you about the ACT as a good barometer for college-preparedness–just not the NCLB standard. At least, he and I both marvel at MHS’s ACT scores compared to the classroom inflated grades. I believe Manual is a perfect example about which you were just discussing–its classroom grades would be a very poor indicator of the college-readiness of its students–so, yes, I agree, for college-bound students, the ACT tests are necessary. Jeff will undoubtedly get back on and clarify his point. He’s a bit busy right now getting the four little ones ready for bed, etc., and getting ready for school tomorrow.

   I will brag about Jeff just a bit–he (and Randy Simmons told me so) did a great job getting PHS students ready for the NCLB test last year–when PHS did make significant gains–as significant as can be expected with wide range of abilities at PHS.

9. I think he went away. Maybe he’s Googling “box plots”.

10. Sharon, the meeting was informative and eye opening as to the concerns of educators and others. I will try to make it when I can.

    And thank all of you for the informative answers regarding your remarks. I think the dialog here is very interesting, and certainly opens up a lot of information from the Educator’s perspective.

11. So sorry to have kept you waiting, 2 Cents. I helped put my kids to bed and then drove to Chicago, and yet here I am, responding to you after midnight.

    When you asked for the 5 number summary, perhaps you don’t understand. There are 8 different standardized test scores (3 CogAt, 3 Wechsler and 2 NWEA MAP) as well as 2 others with a non-normal distribution (grade point average and a “holistic” score) that are all weighted separately to determine a total score. Were you looking for one of those test results in particular? Were you interested in the 5 number summary of the top 60 scores only, or for the entire group of students that tested for Washington Gifted?

    I’ll tell you what. If you’re really interested, maybe CJ will act as a go between, since he already knows both of our email addresses. I have all scores of those who tested for Washington in an Excel spreadsheet that the District provided me (no names, of course). If you ask CJ for it, I’ll send it to him and he can send it to you. Then you can see all of the data and give us your thoughts.

    It was kind of you to offer to calculate the IQR if I gave you the quartiles. You mean, I could give you two numbers and you would subtract one from the other and tell me the result? Where were you 10 months ago when I was first looking at this data?

    But you got me thinking. Since the Wechsler is the most heavily weighted of the scores that go into the determination for Washington Gifted acceptance, what do you think would be a reasonable IQR for the top scoring (overall) 60 students with respect to the Wechsler Full Scale test? Don’t worry, I can patiently wait for a response.

12. The most difficult thing when you are preparing to go to college, or maybe again your senior year when you think I paid what for this, is to realize that if you are even remotely literate you will probablly do fine, that if you play a sport and are illiterate you will most likely graduate at least in the top 10% and that the measure of excellence is how much beer can be consumed through a hose and funnel. College is a social experience and a piece of paper at the end that says hey I paid in to the system now give me a job.

13. It’s not up to me to decide what the IQR is, anymore than it’s up to the state to arbitrarily *change the mean*. Math is a science, not an opinion.

    Sarcasm = Anger’s ugly cousin.

14. 2cents: The sarcasm is unfortunate. I was looking forward to the dialogue.

15. Also, your lengthy response does not address the question about the outliers.

    If I analyzed data that identified an outlier(s), I would definitely remember that, even though I probably couldn’t recall the exact figure(s) without looking at my analysis.

    I would be happy to look over your numbers, but I’ll have to upgrade my handle to 1 Dollar. (happy face)

16. 2 Cents – I didn’t ask you to “decide” what the IQR is – I asked what you thought “would be reasonable” for a particular test with this particular group. If, for example, you told me 50 was reasonable, I would know that you didn’t know what you were talking about.

    Come on, though, you must enjoy sarcasm just a little yourself, as you keep addressing me and seem to use sarcasm somewhat yourself 🙂

    No, I didn’t see any outliers, at least within a group of the test scores, though I was focusing only on the top 100. I did notice a few instances where students had scores on tests that measured similar abilities, and one of the three scores was fairly different. For example, one student had the highest CogAT-Verbal possible of 150 (the only student to do so), and had a MAP-Reading score in the 99th percentile (one of 7 to do so), and yet had a Wechsler-Verbal of 116, which is in the 85th percentile and is right at the mean for all 156 students who took the test. (That’s still a good score and not that far off, but this kid was near perfect on the other two similar tests) With the Wechsler counting the same as the MAP and CogAT combined, this student nearly didn’t make it in (and yet would certainly seem to be gifted with respect to his/her verbal abilities).

    As I’ve said in prior posts, my main point was first to see just how the students were scored. For example, I was told that there was a “holistic” score given by a committee that was worth 10% of the total score. But 10% of what? And just how were the holistic scores dispersed? All or nothing? I learned that they gave a score of up to 10 for the holistic score. However, when they calculated the total score, each of the components had a different scale. For example, if a student got a 10 on the holistic (weighted 10% of the total score), had a 4.0 GPA (10%), a 130 on the CogAT (20%), a 99th percentile on the MAP (20%), and a 125 on the Wechsler (40%), they took 10% of 10, 10% of 4, 20% of 130, 20% of 99 and 40% of 125.

    However, they fixed this (I have no idea if the same problem existed in prior years) and offered admittance to those who made it in to Washington when the scores were correctly calculated (and didn’t turn away those who initially were advised they were in, but in actuality didn’t make the top 60).

17. Jon:

    Considering your findings would you be surprised to find out that Washington Gifted was not on the list of programs that were audited? The program remins intact – as is.

18. Jon – I thought students accepted into Washington had to achieve a certain score on the Wechsler regardless of performance in the other categories. You stated that a student got a 116 on the verbal section, but what was that student’s overall Weshsler score??

19. Emerge – at first I was surprised, mainly because I thought all programs were being looked at. However, while the list of reviewed programs seems long, I imagine there are others not yet covered (Johns Hopkins, the Fine Arts program, probably several different math and science programs, etc.). And certainly Edison has had the bigger target on its head.

    Frustrated – there is no minimum score on any one test needed – the overall weighted score just needs to be in the top 60. That student’s Wechsler Full Scale was a 109. However, two different tests showed that this kid is clearly gifted on a particular ability, so I’m glad to see s/he made it in. While it’s helpful to have several tests to determine gifted ability, the current process of averaging the scores, in my opinion, has the potential to miss truly gifted children in favor of those who are what I call “consistently above average”.

20. I’m kind of surprised there weren’t any outliers, particularly on the high end of the IQ scores. It’s not unusual for at least one student to be significantly ahead of the pack. Also, sometimes there is a spread between the subtests if a student has a high IQ, but also has a learning disability. Was your info obtained via FOIA, Jon? If so, no need to e-mail it. I’ll just trolley over to CA and get a copy.

21. Jon – A Weschler Full Scale of 109 would seem to be an outlier to me in this instance?? A 100 is an average score.

    I am not so sure I think averaging does not produce the intended result — that being that the students are generally strong across most areas. The student you discussed may be “truly gifted” but apparently only in limited dimensions.

22. Average IQ is a range 1 standard deviation from the mean. so 85-115 is considered average for roughly 2/3 of the population.

23. Right Paul – but typically “gifted” is a 125 – 130 range, with 140 the indicator of “highly gifted,” right?

24. 2 Cents – yes, ultimately I obtained the info from a FOIA. Ask for the Excel file.

    Frustrated, for the top 60 students accepted into Washington, in addition to the 109 score (which is 73rd percentile), there were two at 111 (77th percentile) and two at 113 (81st percentile), so this student wasn’t exactly alone.

    The intended result of a gifted program should NOT be to find students who are generally strong across most areas – and the Illinois School Code supports my view. Specifically the Code states “A child shall be considered gifted and talented in any area of aptitude, and, specifically, in language arts and mathematics, by scoring in the top 5% locally in that area of aptitude.”

    The State of Wisconsin has a similar focus on recognizing gifted ability by a particular aptitude rather than an overall score, though you must be in the top 3% in that aptitude to be considered gifted in Wisconsin.

25. Jon states: “The intended result of a gifted program should NOT be to find students who are generally strong across most areas . . .” Why not? I don’t think that is in conflict with what the Code states.

    By generally strong across most areas, I meant a student that scores in the 90the percentile or above on most of the testing areas, in addition to having an above average score on the Weschler Full Scale.

    I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the typical student accepted in Washington would have a Weschler Full Scale score that would fall between 120 – 140. At least when my children attended there seemed to be students running around there that I would characterize as “highly gifted.” A number had skipped a grade, several were accepted directly into the Illinois Math and Science Academy which typically is to begin with 10th grade year, a number of students scored perfect on the ISAT math exam, etc.

    It would be interesting to learn if the typical profile of a Washington student has changed over time????

26. It’s in total conflict, Frustrated, as your method would EXCLUDE a student who has the highest verbal CogAt and is in the 99th percentile for MAP-Reading, all because his average on ONE test didn’t meet your self-imposed standard. The School Code further states:

    “Eligibility for participation in programs established pursuant to this Article shall be determined solely through identification of a child as gifted or talented.”

    That student met the earlier criteria for “gifted” for what you called “only in limited dimensions” and yet now you would exclude him?

27. I am NO expert at any of these tests . . . just know from my own kids and discussions with a few others . . . so you can just slap me if I am completely off base . . .but . .. I am not sure a high percentile on the MAP test is indicative of “giftedness” in and of itself. The MAP test is given at our current school and it seems lots of students do well on that test — remember there is a broad section of students that take this test and are thus in the database, so I would expect a child that is bright and well-read to perform well above the general population average, but don’t know if that equates to gifted.

    I can’t remember the parts of the Weschler, but shouldn’t the student you referred to have had a higher score on a least a portion of it?? You didn’t respond to my point that I would expect the majority of the students accepted at Washington would have a Weschler Full Scale of 120-140. IMO, the score on this test is a stronger measure of “giftedness.”

    Finally, my impression is that Washington is setup based on the assumption that ALL students can perform at a certain level across ALL subjects and that level in each subject is a somewhat accelerated one. If you are too much of an outlier in any subject, a student’s performance will suffer. Washington is not equipped to take a student that scores a 99% in verbal but a 72% in math. Though student strength in different areas, of course vary, I believe the Washington curriculum is based on the assumption that students accepted in the program are “generally strong across most areas.”

    By the way, thank you for debating me on this subject.

28. The faulty weighting scale info Jon shared with the District gave every parent whose child tested for Washington Gifted and who was not accepted, the right to question the process through an appeal. But very few parents know about the appeal process and until recently, it was not written anywhere you could access it.

    Dr. Lathan has made the process more transparent by putting it on the district website.

29. Parents were told last year there was an “unprecedented” number of appeals on the selection process. Now we know the rest of the story. Thank goodness we have FOIA and involved community members who know how to exercise their rights and analyze “holistic” gobble-dee-gook. The original selection process is closely monitored; however, it would be interesting to see an analysis on those moved up from the waiting list. Is there anyone out there who has analyzed that process? If so, please share.

30. http://www.pjstar.com/news/x617854748/District-150-braces-for-change

    This is my reaction to Mr. Stowell’s comments that teachers are over paid. I’d really like to know the average salary of District 150 administrators.

    I have been a teacher in District 150 for the past nine years. During this time I have earned my Masters in Education and given my heart and soul to this district and my students.

    I read the article about the changes coming in the district and was very troubled to see your comment about a longer work day. It is true that we have a shorter work day than some schools, but teachers do not stop working when the bell rings at 3:30. We come in early, stay late, take papers and lesson plans home and attend countless unpaid meetings (CSSS, Wednesday PD’s, district committees and extra activities like parent nights at our schools). Those are all unpaid. I do not know any other profession where a person spends so much time doing things for their job and is not compensated. To top it off, no thank you’s are given, just comments about how we get paid too much and only work for 9 months out of the year. I do not know one teacher who gets paid too much or who works 6.5 hours a day or 9 months of the year. I have nine years experience, plus a masters degree and I only make $44k. That is nowhere close to the average salary of $63k you quoted, and at the rate we are going, I will never see $63k. Teaching is a vocation and not everyone can do it. It is a demanding job, where you leave worrying about the kids you take care of and hope they make it back the next day. I am a teacher, nurse, counselor, mother, disciplinarian, and advocate for my students and I am an important part of their life. I hope to teach, inspire them, and show them the right path on a daily basis. I am often their only constant.

    It saddens me to hear your comment about how we are overpaid. We want to change public opinion about our district but how can we without the support of our board members. We obviously believed in you because we elected you. How about some support from you? I invite you into my room for you to see how hard I work on a daily basis and the things I see. Some days 6.5 hours seems like 12 because of the baggage these kids come in with. I earn every penny of my salary and go above and beyond to see my kids achieve. It would be really nice to hear about the good things going on in the district instead of the negativity. I challenge the board to find out about some of the good things we are doing and comment about that instead.

    PAY TEACHERS MORE!
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/opinion/13kristof.html

31. Teacher, I certainly second all that you have said. If anyone is disappointed in Jim Stowell as a board member, I would be at the top of that list. I was thrilled when Jim (my former student) decided to run for the school board. I would never have dreamed that Jim would have so little respect for teachers and the amount of time they spend doing all the many things required of them–multi-tasking every minute. Making teachers work a longer day and at less pay has been Jim’s mantra for most of his tenure on the board.

    When we were still able to have civil discussions on the subject, Jim shared with me all of his reasons for his stance. I think he does recognize that many teachers do all the things you just stated. However, he doesn’t believe that the extra hours should be “voluntary” and he wants the extra mandatory hours to be spent in the school setting–doesn’t seem to acknowledge the amount of work teachers take home with them. Jim will never walk in a teacher’s shoes, so he will never understand–or maybe he would be one of those of whom he is most critical–one that just puts in the required hours and leaves his work behind when he walks out the door.

    Of course, there are some teachers who do not work as hard as others do (and some subject areas that do not require as much extra preparation as others do). However, those teachers will bide their time at school they same as they do now and nothing will be gained by their added hours spent in the building. It is the majority of dedicated and already over-worked teachers who will be punished and, furthermore, unappreciated if Jim’s desires become reality. Even Ken Hinton scolded him a time or two for his lack of appreciation for hardworking teachers.

32. Oh, and didn’t Jim Stowell think that the associate supt. that the board fired for stealing last year was the best since sliced bread? He obviously lacks good judgment skills….especially since he continually sticks his foot in his mouth.

33. Also, Jim either lied to the public or made a very glaring mistake. In his effort to discredit the teachers in the district, he inflated our average salary by a whopping $8,000!!! Also when you talk about average salary, you have to take into account that many teachers get paid extra for coaching, 6th assignment, Union stipends. Therefore the average salary would not be for the 6.5 hour day that Jim asserts. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

34. Here is the answer I received:

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I know first hand how hard the VAST majority of our teachers work and the extra hours they put in – and I often have written notes of congratulations or thanks to teachers who earn grants or do outstanding achievement. What I speak to is that the contract only enables for work to be scheduled around a short day and we need to raise the minimum expectations on teachers just as the gov’t has done to our students. It has been described to me as counterproductive to building leadership when most of the staff is on board and working hard, but the two or three who only do the minimum really hurt morale and schools focus. Our children need a longer instructional day. Many professions – mine included – provide no compensation for things I do to stay abreast of my profession – or the hours I put in that result in no income. Many jobs, mine included, offer zero pension. I never said that teachers are overpaid, I just implied that for the majority of families in our district, the averages for our teachers are well above those of the families they teach – often when the families toil longer and receive less in benefits. These comments also echo those of most of the taxpayers who elected me. Thx agn.

    Seems to me that I mistakenly voted for him, and his opinion does not echo my opinion!

35. Did I read on here that the standards at Washington Gifted are not as high as all would wish?? I thought that only Manual could do that and get bashed for it. DO you mean to say that every other school in the district (other than MHS) isn’t meeting AYP?? OMG. We forgot to talk about all of them. May I suggest, that if you have all of this free time to blog all day on every topic in Peoria and you can score a perfect score in any topic on the ACT, that you go to any school and volunteer some time to tutor those students who need some help. PSAE is coming up and maybe you could help instead of harass. Just an idea. Character is built by doing the more difficult task, not by always doing what is easy.

36. Ms. Schmillen – thank you for sharing the answer I provided. If your opinion is to suggest that the current contract favors our students or holds teachers to an appropriate level of instruction, then I do disagree. Every private sector job in America has come under pressure for “doing more on less”. No where did I say that teachers are underpaid. Good teachers need raises, great teachers should be appropriately rewarded – six figures plus are being offered by certain pilot programs. Those teachers that only do the mimimum need to find alternate work. It is because of them the contract needs to change. Our childrens future is too important. I have received more leters/notes of agreement from teachers who take the time to understand my desire to improve our childrens future than I have to the contrary. Some teachers do the absolute minimum, and if you don’t agree with that statement, you aren’t being honest. The contract is how the public needs to demand greater accountability. We finally have a leader who is demanding it from her staff. Parents, teachers, and the community need to get on board to support her efforts. Properly incentivizing state-aid is also needed, and I advocate for that, too. I’m not for union sloth, nor corporate welfare. Both of those realities are part of the reasons why drastic corrective action is needed. FYI -the ave salary figure was taken from admins report on Monday that was provided by Dr. Kinney. The analogy to draw is that most of our families don’t earn anything close to the salary and benfits their taxes go to support teachers and their retirement. We need to expect more from our students and their families. Teachers too. The alternative to not valuing an education is the most costly mistake of all.

37. http://www.pjstar.com/news/x617854860/Two-arrests-made-at-Peoria-High

    Two females were arrested for battery after what police termed a free-for-all broke out about 2:50 p.m. Thursday at Peoria High School.

    At least four other females were taken into custody, but were released, police said.

    The identities of the two arrested as not available.

    Two fights apparently occurred inside the school at 1615 N. North St., and another took place after students stepped outside at the conclusion of the school day.

    One female sustained a bruise to her head, but no other injuries were reported.

38. It was certainly inappropriate for Mr. Stowell to name a teacher on a public blog when they are anonymous on said blog. Makes you wonder how many other times he has exercised inappropriate thought processes.

39. Mama, I was thinking the exact same thing. He is an elected public figure, whereas teachers are not. Shame on you, Mr. Stowell.

40. CJ. I wish there was a way we could click on “Like” for posts.

41. I certainly hope Stowell is not “in charge” of anyone he works with. I wonder if he asks his secretary to call him Saint Stowell…..of which he thinks he is…

42. “Average IQ is a range 1 standard deviation from the mean. so 85-115 is considered average for roughly 2/3 of the population.”

    One standard deviation represents 68.26% of a population, but there is no accurate data as to what the IQ distribution is in this country or in the world as a whole.
    The reason is that there is no standard definition of IQ other than a comparison of similar aged children taking similar tests at similar times… IQ represents only meaning for those who take the same test the same year.
    It is inaccurate to even try and compare IQ scores today with IQ scores from 5 years ago or even 10 years ago…

    In fact, trying to compare IQ scores from year to another ends up in a mess of “well last year I was a 100 but this year because so many dumb people took the test I am now a 125.”

    SO forget IQ scores.. they are meaningless.

    READ THIS CAREFULLY… Tests demonstrate nothing about the student except their ability to take tests. An intelligent student can score nearly as high on a test on a subject he nothing about as he can on a subject the has been studying. Tests, especially standardized tests, are WORTHLESS to education and learning. They are WONDERFUL to bureaucracrats and administrators trying to justify their jobs and salaries!

43. Jim Stowell, your passive aggressive tendencies not withstanding, you are just WRONG. You stated “Our children need a longer instructional day.”

    Our children need hope, they need a vision of something out there WORTH learning. Longer hours won’t do anything except make school LESS interesting, less relevant and less productive.

    What is your business that you complaining about??? Investment counselor/broker??? You are complaining about your pay and compensation in this parasitic occupation that nearly destroyed the world economy because of its propensities??? (You support gambling and the loot as legitimate revenue makers for the State as well?)

44. The lotto, not loot

45. Just a reminder: No personal attacks, please. I recognize personal attacks are easy to do (I’ve had to repent of it myself at times). But it’s still a worthy goal to stick to the issues and not resort to personal insults.

46. MANY SALARIED WORKERS ARE NOT PAID BY THE HOUR SO THEY ALSO SPEND COUNTLESS HOURS, IN ADDITION TO THEIR JOB REQUIRMENTS, IN MEETINGS, TAKE WORK HOME, PREPARE FOR WORK OFF THE CLOCK SO TO SPEAK. I WISH TEACHERS WOULD STOP THE PITY PARTY.

47. Teacher are you willing to throw in your deferred comp with that 44k take home number? Whats your entire pay package worth and how does it compare to that 63k number? Once your medical, retirement and pay is combined is it close to 63K? I have a similiar education level, not quite your time in but getting close, am not a teacher and my entire compensation is around 50k.

48. Is insulting a predatory and self serving occupation a “personal” insult?

49. Outsider: Salaried employees are usually management and higher, therefore, are expected to put in MORE THAN 40 hours a weeks….that’s what you get the big bucks for. I live an upper-middle class lifestyle and I am here to tell you that the people that live in my neighborhood work 40 hours….period. You can set you watch by them going to and coming from work…..PLEASE. My own spouse works 8 hours TO THE MINUTE everyday and has NEVER worked overtime that he wasn’t compensated for….

50. “that’s what you get the big bucks for”

    Ha ha ha!!!

    No… that is why you put in the extra hours… so you can stay on the that sweet gravy train. You need to make it look like you are worth that salary.(Those who are competent and work smart don’t have to put in extra hours) It is the Walmarts of the world that demand employees work more and not get paid for it, in order to not lose their jobs.

    Teachers, on the other hand have ‘homework’ built into their jobs. They have those extra hours institutionalized into their jobs.

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