I hate it when local restaurants close. The Journal Star article implies that Red Zin is folding because of competition with all the new restaurants in East Peoria. I’m not convinced of that.
It might be their prices or the quality of their food or the consistency of their service. For example, the last time my wife and I visited Red Zin, we were served baked potatoes that were stone cold. Not lukewarm. Not even room temperature. Cold. At the prices they were charging, it didn’t motivate us to visit again anytime soon.
Maybe that was just a bad night. Or maybe there were a lot of bad nights, and customers got turned off. Who knows? One thing’s for sure, they weren’t losing business because people are scared off by the HRA tax. You might choose the East Peoria Steak n’ Shake over a Peoria Steak n’ Shake if you’re about the same distance from both when you decide to go. But if Red Zin is among your options for dinner, the tax rate is not likely to be high on your list of concerns.
So what’s next for this location?
I say, bring back The Grill. Or, better yet, have a ground-level restaurant that’s like a sports bar and restaurant where people can hang out before/after Rivermen and Bradley games whether they’re with their buddies or with their family, and put the highfalutin upscale restaurant at the top of the twin towers where diners can get an aerial view of the city while they eat. I’ve never quite understood why Peoria puts all its fine dining establishments in the basements of its downtown buildings.
I gave em a couple of shots, bad both times. High prices and sub-par food does not cut it.
I’m actually shocked it didn’t close sooner.
I heard many bad reviews from people.
My guess, C.J., is that the rent in the basement is far cheaper than the top floors with great views. And when restaurants operate at a 5% profit margin on a good day, no one in Peoria is going to pay $30 for a chicken dinner for the view of Wal-Mart.
Did you guys see the story HOI ran tonight about this restaurant closing and the dwindling downtown? The city says the problem is there isn’t enough housing down there. I am curious to hear whether any of you would consider moving downtown.
No, I’m afraid I haven’t seen any news tonight. But they’re right — we need more residential downtown. That’s why the museum plan is such a travesty — every consultant has pegged that block for mixed use development so it could be a catalyst for downtown. To tie it up with a single museum use is, frankly, dumb.
Would I move downtown? If I didn’t have little kids, I would definitely consider living downtown. If we had had townhouses downtown (like the ones being proposed by Hullinger) back when we were looking for a bigger house to move into, I would definitely have considered that, too. There’s no way I would have lived by Taft homes, of course, but I’m just saying if there had been that housing style elsewhere in downtown (e.g., if Southtown had been redeveloped as an urban village instead of a suburb), I would have considered that.
I moved to the Randolph Roanoke neighborhood. I plan on spending much more time downtown this spring, summer and fall.
But then … I am a fan of the push carts. Althought I do, on occasion, grab a sandwich in the food court area of the Twin Towers.
I like 401 Water stylistically… the problem is that there isn’t enough of it. You need a critical mass of neighbors to make it worthwhile. Condo’s have been for sale at 401 Water for some time. Just seems like a lonely place and that the people who were living there got tired of it.
Would I live downtown? I might. I would live in downtown Chicago if I could afford it. I would live in about any urban center in Europe in a heartbeat. The problem with kids and downtowns is something to do with expectations. The experiences will be different and I don’t think people have running fantasies of a home life in a downtown setting. It certainly isn’t something pushed in the media.
But.. the problem with kids in urban settings is getting attention. There have been several articles in the Financial Times over the last couple years about it. Urban centers are experiencing a renaissance but they still don’t attract families with young children. One of the problems to be addressed has to do with play space. Urban planners are looking at that.
In Europe, London, Paris, Hamburg and Berlin, there are these little pocket parks scattered all over. They are sometimes hard to find but that is intentional, to isolate the kids from the heavy traffic that exists. American cities have not done that very well. I think that is where urban planners are heading; pocket parks.
Third comment in a row on the same post, sorry …
If I had the cash, I’d love to live downtown.
A typical non chain restaurant only lasts about 3-5 years. Restaurants are fashion statements. Fashions pass. I wouldn’t sweat about or read too much into Zin closing.
Anyone who opens a restaurant should plan for possibly closing in 5 years. Then you renovate, create a new menu, and reopen for another 5 years under a different name. Rinse repeat.
I did some checking today and every single one of the 35 condos at 401 Water is sold and owner occupied. Pretty good for an 8yr old project. How long has the Twin Towers had space for sale or lease?
The other option downtown/riverfront area is Waterfront Apartments above the antique mall. I called and they have 22 apartments and they only have a couple open. I know Becker has some apartments in the Jefferson Building/Civic Center Plaza but I don’t know whats available. If I was a little older without kids or younger without kids I would sure be looking at wanting to live downtown.
I live in Becker’s Civic Center Plaza. I like the place a lot. Most of the apartments seem to stay occupied-maybe a few open on each floor. It’s a mix of residents as far as occupations and ethnicities. It is close to everything, but more restaurants would be great. As far as Red Zin…the food was good, but not as good as one might imagine for the price. I think the place was more flare than flavor in the end.
CJ said “…Or, better yet, have a ground-level restaurant that’s like a sports bar and restaurant where people can hang out before/after Rivermen and Bradley games…” It was called Damaon’s.
peoriafan, you must be wrong about 401water. That place has to be empty – nobody would buy a condo next to a railroad line, AK said so.
The problem with living downtown is no gas station, no liquor store, no corner grocery (unless you count the strange little place in the Becker Building that doesn’t have much.) One would have to travel to East Peoria to get all necessities. And for families – no green areas and NOT SAFE. I’m sorry – but downtown Peoria is scary at night!
I agree with EP Blondie. The downtown area is not established to support residencial space. Instead of the museum, the Sears block should have been converted to retail, with a grocery store and pharmacy on the main/ground floor. Instead of the Shoppes of Grand Prairie, a regional high-end mall could have been put there. Too late now.
As for Red Zin, I was only there once. And that was enough.
Downtown Peoria at night is not that scary. I guess comparing to downtown East Peoria it might be. I would say after midnight-1am you might want to have your guard up a little more. You know what is scary at night, the Wal-Mart parking lot along with Northwood’s Mall and most other big box parking lots after dark. If your going to get your purse snatched it’s going to walking to car at a Wal-Mart. Check the police records. People have the perceptions that downtown are dangerous after dark. Depends on what town you’re in and what area of the downtown you’re in and what you are doing. Most of the problems downtown after dark are between 2am and 5am when the 4am bars are letting out. People get drunk and then get taken advantage of. I would say no more dangerous that crossing Rt. 29 in Creve Coeur going home from your favorite bar drunk.
Working downtown it takes 5 minutes to hop across the bridge to buy anything you want. I bet most people living in East Peoria aren’t near as close to those services as those that live downtown Peoria.
I will agree that living in a downtown urban area the size of Peoria is not going to be as kid/family friendly but most people wanting to live in an urban setting are young couples, singles, and empty nesters.
You won’t get the services until people are living there. No ones going to build a grocery store if there is no one to shop there.
Retail downtown on any large scale is not going to work in this town. People want easy parking and as EB Blondie says “its scary”
Residential will work downtown, it’s proven. It’s just not for everyone so just because you woudn’t don’t assume no one would.
NewsAnchorMom, et. al.
I would not choose to live downtown. I grew up on a farm and like a little land to tinker with, vegetable and flower gardens and the like. Of course, Ian’s multi-level sumptious penthouse with its commanding view is also really very nice, I personally would have difficulty calling it home.
There does need to be more services downtown, not at the museum block, but rather the warehouse district, we’re sinking millions in tax dollars there, it makes sense that there is a payoff to the general population. We need to not only pull in more things to do downtown, but build up the surrounding neighborhoods that are impoverished. People struggling with making ends meet or fighting crime and poor infastructure simply aren’t going to spend money downtown. As we keep building up north, what attractions are going to bring the folks with the disposible incomes to travel 10 miles downtown when they have nearby amenities. They aren’t. We look at East Peoria because they have a concentrated restaurant area with newer restaurants. Everyone flocks to the new spot for quite awhile then they go on to the next new spot. We look at the new hotel.. well, it’s new. To compete our current hotels need to increase some amenities and room quality.
We in Peoria want to keep up with the JOnes. We are so afraid that another community will have a new _________ that we have to rush in and get one before they do, if they have one we need to have one. If we would make the things we have nicer, long term, we would be sucessful. We subscribe to that throw away/everything’s disposable mentality, that we fail to bring basic things up to reasonable standards.
I remember the hotel presentation by the consultants. If there aren’t things like hot water, heat, etc. Not many will stay in our hotels. We had a fraternity convention in St. Louis one year and I won’t mention which year… The Hotel was downtown, was horrible, bad service, poor quality. All of us swore we wouldn’t be back. Guess what, we haven’t. Same thing with restuarants, good food, excellent service, good value will bring repeat customers and profits. The challenge by management is to engage staff in that philosophy. Word gets around quickly if things are sub par.
“multi-level sumptious penthouse” Ha, not so much. When choosing a place to live before I moved here, people kept saying downtown wasn’t safe. “Don’t live there” people would say. Nonsense. I used to live near Northwoods mall off Westport. There were more cops at that apartment and sketchy characters than I have seen downtown. Even late at night I feel completely safe walking home from Main street. Peoriafan is right, the only issue would be a couple of drunks leaving the bar. In that case they’re more likely to beat each other up than a stranger. I agree also there isn’t much green space for children to grow.I think a Chicago downtown wouldn’t be as bad for kids as it has much more to offer.
Maybe the Red Zin will turn in to a Rizzi’s? Just kidding. Why wasn’t this place just called Rizzi’s and then operated like one?
As for downtown, I would be there in a minute, if I was single [read: m’wife says no].
As for the sears block. Let’s get serious – tear down the crab shack and the Damon bldg – capture the riverfront into the footprint of the space – get a major developer to put in a nice hotel with shops with a connect to the civic center, etc. Where is Gary Bielfeldt when we really need him?
To bad the name “West” Peoria is taken. I would recommend East Peoria Change its name to Peoria – then . . . .
The biggest opportunity for retail development downtown is around the bus station. During the week you will see hundreds of potential customers just standing around. In Europe, that sort of bus station is at the heart of the commercial district. Instead we surround it on three sides with mostly empty parking lots.
The difference between our bus station and ones is Europe is most of the people using our transit system are poor. People in Peoria for the most part do not use public transportation if they do not have to. The people in Europe are of all classes and would support small specialty retail and restuarants. Our folks would support a Wal-Mart.
Paul, the city has yet to spend a dime on the Warehouse District, up to now they only talk about. If that area is to be anything the city needs to stand up to it and improve the infastructer first and then they may see some developers want to invest.
I have lived in downtown Chicago – McClurg Court, (26th floor, Ontario and McClurg)and it was a pain. Sure, there were restaurants and shopping everywhere close by and a semi-real grocery store (with 3 foot wide aisles) but have you ever tried to carry home more than about 2 days worth of food at a time? It all seems fun for a while, but it really sucks compared to living out in suburban Peoria. I won’t even get into the amount of money that parking and other services cost when in such an environment.
Peoriafan,
Poor people use the buses in Europe too. Ridership is heavily weighted on the working class. Generally the well off avoids public transit too, just as here. Europeans, like Peorians, do prefer to drive, and avoid public transit unless they have too. Europeans have big box stores too, including Wal-Mart. Those big boxes are better integrated into urban centers than here. They are less conspicuous and lack the big empty parking lots (and yet there are some that look very American too).
The reason more people use public transit in Europe has to do with a series of carrots and sticks. The carrots being a well run networks and subsidized costs (w/ high gas taxes) to keep it affordable. The sticks primarily being, extremely limited parking and very high gas prices. It is an interesting balance. I never had a problem finding parking, but I paid for it. The cost of parking dissuades others, so they take the bus, or walk, or ride a bicycle. I only drove if I knew I needed the car to haul stuff.
The principle problem with Peoria’s system is that it is not reliable. The buses stop too many times to keep themselves on a solid schedule. The routes are too few and too infrequent. No middle class person is going to rely on that nor many working class types. It is very unattractive. The carrot of a well run reliable network sufficient to attract more upscale passengers does not exist. The stick of parking shortages and high fuel prices, does not exist on a level to cause of shift in usage. Now if gas were to spike sharply $5+ you might begin to see an interest but that carrot mentioned earlier won’t be there. Citilink is not well situated for scalability. Nonetheless Peoria does have a sizable rider base.
Peoriafan,
You are correct, the CIty of Peoria has budgetted and/or spent $0.00 for the Warehouse District. This year(2008) the City has agreed to “loan” a million dollars or so earmarked to improve Water Street at the Museum Rectangle to “jump start” the capital improvements for infrastructure in the Warehouse District That “loan” will be paid back by TIF revenues coming from the Warehouse District when the improvements to Water Street in conjunction with Museum Retangle are timely. Other than that, the State of Ilinois has funded the State’s mandated culsultants to study Ill 24 revisions(Washington Street) if any.
The only other money the City spent was to hire Duany to “create the vison of the Warehouse District” and then Ferril Madden to “codify the Form Based Codes for the Heart of Peoria area. No other dollars, let alone “millions of dollars, have eiter been spent or budgetted for the Warehouse District.
The tie in to the bus station is this. If you had viable retail expanding out from around the bus station, you would first attract those who currently ride the bus. The better off would still drive to shop the retail… but.. if they knew the bus went there directly, they might be more inclined try it.
Now you might say.. well the bus runs to the Malls… yes but not every bus runs to the mall. Every bus goes downtown. The bus station is a hub, the mall is not. To get to the Mall you might have to hop on Bus A, ride to downtown, change lines then ride Bus B out to the mall. That adds time and cost. Positioning your transportation hub with your commercial hub will reap better benefits. The potential for foot traffic to hit the downtown from the buses (all of them) is far greater than what could hit the mall (three or four of them).
” Thank You, Ian Schwartz and Peoriafan, for defending Downtown Peoria! ” In case You aren’t aware of It, the ” scary ” and ” unsafe ” labels for Downtown Peoria are, simply, code language for… blacks or Other ” undesirables ” are around! Notice how often Taft Homes is repeatedly mentioned again and again? And, We know WHO (mostly) lives There! Don’t We?
I, from 1989-1993 and 2004-2007, worked at (ICC) Perley on Adams Street. For years, the (ICC) department heads and directors had difficulty persuading (East Peoria) Main Campus teachers to teach at the Downtown campus because, so, many had heard great tales of alleged danger (ex: carjackings, murders, rapes, robberies, etc.) about Downtown Peoria. Those, teachers, Who took the risk, repeatedly told (staff) Us after They were settled how much They loved working at the Downtown campus and found the danger to be ANOTHER ” urban legend ” .
The most disappointing Fact I’ve discovered in conversations with members of Peoria’s business community, over the years, is the damaging PERCEPTION so-called professionals (ex: certain suburban developers, and unscrupulous realtors and tourism representatives, etc.) have fostered in perpetuating These urban legends. And We know the saying, ” Perception is Reality! ” Their hidden agendas are AGAINST a, less, lucrative and prosperous Downtown and older neighborhoods versus more valuable city fringes and suburbs. So, foster the notion that Those areas are ” dangerous ” and ” scary ” and willing buyers will have no choice but to purchase in the alleged ” good ” locations.
This scheme, ALSO, helps devalue the deteriorating areas enough to allow for much cheaper land and property acquisition in ” less-desirable ” areas in the event of an area revitalization movement that would create a, rapid, increase in targeted and surrounding property values should the same developer(s)possess or obtain properties within the area(s)in revitalization. It’s devious but, potentially, lucrative!
Ask Yourself This, ” WHO has the Most to gain from a, dormant, Downtown Peoria? ” It’s, MUCH, cheaper to build in a cornfield than an urban CBD (central business district). Plus, in suburbia and the fringes of town, there’s no one-way streets; no necessity to build costly parking decks or meters; relocate utilties; and no expensive land/property purchases or city ordinances. This ” scary ” image will vanish, overnight, WHEN the demand for Downtown locations becomes suddenly lucrative. And, It will!
Many, other, Downtowns across the U.S. have successfully fought Their ” scary ” perceptions and are enjoying another Downtown renaissance. Downtown Cleveland, Philadelphia, AND Detroit is coming back! Even smaller cities like Omaha and Des Moines are resurrecting Their downtowns with renewed vigor. Many of today’s, professionals and wealthy retirees, are seeking downtown and city-center dwellings closer to Their areas of interest. Downtown Peoria, despite It’s detractors, will be no different!
PEORIA: Amen to your analysis!
Gary, are you saying the section of Water St. by the museum will be renovated this year regardless of the status of the museum? Whatever happens with the museum that block (100&200 block) and the end of Water St.(behind Cat deck,under bridge and into RiverPlex) is in terrible condition and needs fixed regardless on the museum being built. The city and private investors have spent lots of money over the last several years from State St. to the RiverPlex and to leave those two sections in the condition they are in is a real embarrassment to our downtown. I thought that there was money set aside for the renovation of Water under the bridge and they were just waiting for the 1-74 work to be completed before reconstucting Water St. What happened to those dollars?
Peoriafan,
No I am saying just the opposite. The $1,000,000 +/- that was part of a Federal ISTEA grant to improve Water Street between Main and Liberty is being loaned to “jump start” infrastructure improvements in the Warehouse District and is to be repaid thru TIF revenues if and when TIF revenues start flowing in the Warehouse District.
Due to the Museum missing their deadlines to start construction allows for this “loan” to be considered as a funding source, assuming that IDOT agrees to allow US 24 to be modified. If IDOT does NOT allow modifications to US 24 (Washington Street) neither this ISTEA money or TIF money or any money can be spent to accoumplish the goals and vision of the Duany Plan and the Warehouse District.
I was wondering how long it’d take for some goof to play the race card.