Eleven District 150 schools will split $1.3 million earmarked for underprivileged students under a plan still being finalized by school officials.
Okay, remember those numbers: 11, $1.3 million.
But the plan, nearly doubling the number of schools designated as Title I, comes at a cost to 13 other schools within the district already receiving the grants.
Ah, so 13 other schools already receive Title 1 funding. If we take that number, plus the aforementioned 11 schools that will be added, we come up with 24 schools total. Got it.
Despite the district increasing the number of Title I schools from 15 to 24, it won’t receive any additional money.
Wait a minute. Now they’re saying 15 schools already receive Title I funding, but the total is still only going to be 24, which is an increase of 9. This must be a typo; I’m sure they meant to say “from 13 to 24.” Maybe the editor will catch it before the paper copy goes to press.
Essentially, it would redistribute the same $7.5 million it receives annually.
What? How did we get from $1.3 million to $7.5 million? From the article, it appears the $7.5 million is the total funding District 150 gets, and of that amount, $1.3 million is going to be going to the 11 additional schools. But how is that figured? How did they arrive at that number?
Enrollment at the 13 additional schools represents a combined 5,000 students.
I thought it was 11 additional schools. Thirteen was the number of schools “already receiving the grants,” wasn’t it? This is so confusing!
Of the little more than $7.5 million District 150 receives, $2.2 million is set aside for pre-school, $755,000 for professional development, $75,500 for parental involvement and $255,000 for administrative needs. The remaining $3.5 million goes directly to the schools.
$2.2 million, plus $755,000, plus $75,500, plus $255,000, plus $3.5 million equals $6,785,500. Where does the other “little more than” $714,500 go? That ain’t chump change, especially on an annual basis!
Not being factored in is some $4.4 million in federal stimulus money headed for Title I programs at District 150.
Good, because none of the other numbers are adding up anyway. Does anybody at 1 News Plaza have a calculator?
Oh my there was an attack of the “Chatty Kathy’s” last night! 😉 What refreshing dialogue!
Steve, I agree with your comments on tenured teachers. “Tenure” is an aberration of some weird business model that has not served students well. Whoever dreamt that one up was no great friend of education.
I also concur with the suggestions that the more academically advanced students tend to be overlooked in District 150. Laura Petelle, the new incoming B of E member had addressed that very issue in her campaign platform. One of her goals is to enhance the profile of our high schools to increase college opportunities for graduates.
http://www.pjstar.com/archive/x1916562089/Our-View-District-150-School-Board-District-3-Laura-Petelle
http://eyebrowsmcgee.blogspot.com/2009/04/honesty-transparency-accountability.html
So Steve, do you have a Superintendents certificate?
“And here we get the real insight into how a bureaucrat thinks… only WE truly understand and are able to implement that knowledge… WE have a system. WE have a MEANS to a desired end. Follow us and see the rising sun of success just over the horizon.”
See, this is where it gets personal and I get defensive. You cast it on bcats, and I don’t understand why.
What is so wrong with creating a system to order randomness and assigning terms to that process?
You write “if you can’t communicate, then get the F out”, well, how very nice to be completely absolved of all responsibility because you didn’t take the time to understand. You’ve just encountered some of the concepts (maybe, not likely) and the linguistic roadblocks are what you point to, it’s what keeps you from grasping their import?
This stuff isn’t the world of b-cats, it’s the world of organizational management. a school is a business in the sense they are an organization. you (or maybe it was sharon) write schools don’t have bottom lines, yet your benchmarks are AYP, graduations rates, etc.
while those (AYP, g-rate) may not directly have financial value such as P&L, or an Acid Test, they are very much comparative, organizational, performance measures nonetheless.
very proud of my navy experience, so, thanks.
1) “it also convicts a whole group by the nature of their profession”
What is the School Boards “profession”? What is a politician’s “profession?
I would respond that a BOE/politician’s profession is that of policy maker.
Diane: I didn’t read Steve’s comments as an attack on tenure. I thought he was stating that administrators cannot blame unions or tenure–that administrators have to exercise their responsibility to evaluate and get rid of tenured (and I say non-tenured first) teachers when necessary.
Steve’s words were “I disagree on one thing about tenure. I don’t think that administration can ever use unions or tenure as a crutch until they have given every attempt to remediate and, if necessary, dismiss tenured teachers that are not performing. It is difficult, but we have to try… I let go of 8 non-tenured teachers while at Centralia. (Which was a huge change from the past).
Also from Steve, “districts can take care of many of their problems by not granting tenure to teachers that have questionable competency.”
Kcdad: Just when I give up agreeing with you, we agree. I just find the whole comparison of education to a business to be so offensive. I believe Erik is right in that there does probably need to be a better way to make teachers accountable, but the business model with its benchmarks, etc., is not the way to go.
Sharon – maybe my interpretation was a classic case of “hearing what you want to hear”. Sound familiar? 😉
PS–I shouldn’t give “blanket” statements such as my total agreement with Kcdad, especially any parts attacking people, etc. I primarly agree with his objections to viewing educational institutions as a business where the “product” is concerned. Also, the “bottom line” quote was not mine–but I do believe that the “bottom line” should relate only to the district’s financial status, not to students.
Diane: Just asking about your opinions about tenure. Do you want principals and administrators to be able to evaluate and get rid of teachers in the same manner as the Lindbergh principal was just treated? That is what would happen without tenure–an individual principal would be able to get rid of teachers without due process and for very, very personal reasons. I still believe that many of the teachers that would be “let go” would be the squeaky wheels that question the system–and that these are not necessarily the “bad” teachers. If someone can find a fair way to evaluate and get rid of bad teachers, I’m all for it–I just haven’t heard of any such method yet.
kcdad, I am curious if there are any metrics that you, as an educator dealing directly with students, see as beneficial in evaluating the performance of a fellow teacher, school, district, etc. For example, how do you know who is a good teacher vs. the overpaid stiff hiding behind tenure? How do you know that a teacher’s methods are effective? Or which ones are effective?
Frustrated: previously Steve said “On this forum I won’t go into detail about the data of Illinois schools that I have seen, but I will show various forms of data if someone visits RHS. I can state that at least three of the respected central Illinois schools are performing below their potential. (My central Illinois area is huge…. so no guessing…lol)”
Diane – you are too funny. I was going to ask Steve the same question.
Frustrated – It’s not rocket science. 😉
Sharon, ya busted me! I know very little about the history of, the principles behind and the reasons for tenure. That said, I have seen the protections of “tenure” extremely abused in numerous circumstances which begs the question: In what other profession can you demonstrate extreme incompetence and continue to have job security?
Sharon,
you write:
“but I do believe that the “bottom line” should relate only to the district’s financial status, not to students.”
why do you think this way and what factors influence how you came to hold this philosophy?
Diane: I just believe that other professions (jobs, etc.) have better measuring sticks for competence vs. incompetence. In your profession, I would imagine that the number of clients and the number of properties sold would be a major measuring stick. Personally, as a person who was around teachers day in and day out, I certainly had my ideas as to whom I thought were good or bad teachers. That said, I would have found it very difficult to make the decision to fire “my” choices. Personally, I would have fired teachers who put forth little effort–the teachers who do not grade papers, do not create their own plans, assignments, etc. I would certainly fire teachers who give all passing grades. Kcdad will certainly disagree, but I found that teachers who gave all passing grades to be the ones who didn’t work hard enough or evaluate students well enough to give failing grades–because they knew they would have to defend the grades and couldn’t. I would not judge teachers by the opinions of students while they are in that teacher’s class. I would wait and ask students two or three years later–or maybe 10 years later to evaluate their teachers. I would be willing to believe that every principal has some very subjective reasons for their judgments of teachers. Just please, please tell me how you as a parent have made the decision that a particular teacher was incompetent and then tell me how you would measure that opinion objectively. Of course, I believe there are bad teachers. But I would be willing to bet that there are few teachers that are “hated” by all students and parents–every teacher seems to have his/her own following.
Erik: I have already written way too much, espousing my off the cuff opinions, etc. Right now because of NCLB standards, standardized test grades seem to be the only “bottom line” by which to “objectively” judge a teacher’s success. For instance, I think many teachers have contributed to influencing students to be better people, better citizens, etc., and there is absolutely no way to measure that. Right now we seem to have a crisis in our country with regard to unethical leaders coming from our business community. While education may have given them the skills to become successful business men and women, education failed to make them better people.
Sharon, How does tenure for teachers serve the needs of students? I’m not smarting off I’m seriously asking. And what does tenure offer a teacher that a decent contract would not? Seeking to understand…
Jon… obviously there is some subjectivity when it comes to teaching, hence the institution of tenure to begin with… academic freedom is a necessity for education to occur. (It is lost its usefulness when it encourages complacency)
However, when 90% of the students complain about a teacher, when they drop or refuse to take classes from that particular teacher and when that teacher is restricted to “online” courses so they don’t have a personal contact with the students or are given sole responsibility for a mandatory required course … THAT is a pretty good sign that something is wrong.
In Primary and Secondary Schools the issue is usually clearer… for example French teacher teaches the first three years of French and then ALL of her students take a fourth year in another language because the 4th year teacher ACTUALLY expects them to know some french… THAT is a problem.
When the teacher is hired to be a coach, THAT is a problem. When a teacher refuses to consider a new text because “all of her power points and lectures are based on the old text”, THAT is a problem.
When students consistently drop out, fail or are kicked out of classes, that is another good sing that the teacher is the problem.
When a new teacher is introduced as Doctor So and So and it turns out that they are neither PhD. or MDs and have 1 year of teaching experience from a minor little school… that is a pretty good sign there is problem… or soon will be.
When a teacher is given lots of responsibilities and all of sudden has them taken away but left in the class room… that is good sing of something being wrong.
When a (secondary school) teacher is arrested for off duty drinking or partying with students…
When a teacher breaks a student’s nose or arm breaking up “a fight”…
When a teacher physically “punishes” a student for any reason…
When a teacher refuses to talk to a parent…
When a teacher suggests drugs for a student…
When a teacher intentionally humiliates a student in front of his/her peers…
I can’t think of any other incidents I have witnessed in my public school career (as a student).
Erik: “why do you think this way and what factors influence how you came to hold this philosophy?”
YOURS is a philosophy that holds that the evaluation of MEANS is the amount of profit (bottom line) that is achieved. Business’s only concern is profit for shareholders… the euphemistic “stakeholder” is directly out of this model. How one gets to the “profit” is not important… only the “profit”. If one gets to the profit the MEANS was justified. Sounds rather fascist, doesn’t it?
Education is not a one size fits all, one goal and one only business. There is no known result from education… it is a mystery that occurs when the student realizes their potential and world changes because of it. (Perhaps it is only the world of the student that changes… but how is that any less miraculous?)
You don’t go into education thinking… I am going to make this kid a lawyer and that kid a doctor. You go in thinking “What can happen today that will change the world (for the better)?”
Diane: I don’t understand your question about a decent contract? What is a decent contract and how would that replace tenure? Also, you didn’t answer my question as to how you as a parent would make the judgment about a good or bad teacher–and how you would know that your judgments weren’t subjective rather than objective. Before I can answer your question, you will have to prove to me that you can guarantee that the decision-makers have the judgment to discern a good teacher from a bad teacher. All that said, during my career I never really had a bad evaluation. In fact, most were probably much better than I deserved. Also, few of my evaluations were based on any truly objective criteria–they were all very, very subjective, and they were mostly written at the end of the year by administrators who were in a big hurry to get the job done in time to meet the district’s deadline. I know one thing for sure–at the high school level–if teachers didn’t have tenure and students and parents knew it, they would forever be telling teachers that they were going to get them fired, etc. That happened all the time anyway. Admittedly, not too often to me, but on occasions when a student was angry about a grade, a conference, or referral, etc., he/she would scream, “My mother is going to call the superintendent and get you fired.” I guarantee you that first-year teachers heard that cry more often than I did. And without tenure, there is a good chance that sometimes those very subjective “cries” would be heard as they were recently from Lindbergh.
…and yes, you may quote me on that last statement.
Sharon – Here is an ugly little truth. Ask anyone who works within the school who are the good teachers and who are the bad, there will most likely be a consensus. You can also ask the kids – they’ll tell you with pinpoint accuracy!
I’ve always thought a good way to judge the performance of teachers would be for confidential peer review surveys – as well as confidential student evaluations. I agree there is the possibility for corruption – but if the idea could be refined…
Please realize these are thoughts from a layperson not immersed in education. If anyone gave good reason why the idea sucked I would listen.
Kcdad: After a quick reading–because I’m trying to leave this discussion behind and go out and run some errands–your list of reasons why a teacher should be fired is quite reasonable. I would have to agree that most of these are reasons for firing a teacher. Besides most of the reasons you listed if well-documented, etc., should provide “just” cause. Some of your reasons would require a concerted effort on the part of an administrator to document the data, etc. Others are cause for immediate dismissal. If the teachers in question (from your own experience) remained in the classroom, I would make a guess that many of them had a friend in “high” places. And if tenure were removed, those same teachers would still have friends in “high” places–and not all or maybe even any of those friends would be from the teachers’ union.
Diane: I agree, in part, that teachers, parents, and students might agree about a particular teacher. But in that case, where is the administrator who does have the authority to document and seek removal of the teacher. I guarantee you that the union is not strong enough to stop well-documented, fair, and objective evaluations. At the lower grade level, how would you propose getting evaluations from students. Ask some college professors how they feel about the fairness of student evaluations–Bradley conducts them all the time. I guarantee you that the ultimate result of student evaluations i(in the hands of administrators) is that a teacher will stop giving low grades–everybody will pass. I frequently asked my own students to evaluate me. I often invited a discussion of my good and bad qualities as a teacher–and for suggestions as to how to improve. Frequently, students offered those suggestions without my invitation. 🙂 I believe any good teacher will most likely find ways to get their students to “evaluate” them. For most of us, it was often the one sure way that we could count on getting some compliments that made us feel good–especially, when administrators weren’t doing a very good job of that. My “bottom line” is that, of course, I believe that there are bad teachers and that they should be fired, but I believe that can be done while keeping tenure in place. However, I do have an objection to allowing “bad” teachers to teach for 30 years without any attempt at dismissal or remediation, etc., and then firing them when they are too old to find employment. I believe that would happen without tenure.
kcdad, with all due respect, you really didn’t answer my question. You gave a list of many rather obvious examples of what not to do. I’ll ask the question again. Are there any metrics you see that would be beneficial in determining the “success” of a teacher, school, district, etc.? I’ll be more blunt. For example, do you think standardized tests results (absolute results, yearly improvement, etc.) should be one (though not the only) measure of a school and/or teacher’s effectiveness? How do you, as a teacher, want to be judged and can you apply that to other teachers? I agree that much of it is subjective, but if that subjectivity is not at the “whim” of the administration, then who is going to make those determinations and how? I assume teachers should have some expectations of them, so how do you communicate that so that everyone knows the path to success, however it may be defined? You have some very strong opinions on education and certainly a great amount of insight, and I seriously welcome your opinions on this.
kcdad:
“YOURS is a philosophy that holds that the evaluation of MEANS is the amount of profit (bottom line)”
I appreciate you writing that because I think I’ve somehow confused my position. What you write is not my position at all. My position is that the evaluation of means is the amount of improvement. Relative condition.
“If one gets to the profit the MEANS was justified. ”
No, if one gets to the improvement, the means was justified.
Profit is a measure, it’s an indicator of something. It’s measuring relative scale of financial value. Education has measures, indicators of something. It has relative scale of improvement.
Sharon’s arguments are classic obstructionist. Of course I understand you can’t measure the achievement of one class against a completely different class, or one year of students against a completely different year of students. I’m saying education currently doesn’t have good improvement measures.
Take graduation rates. The measure may be good, but horribly executed.
Jon is doing a much better job of this than I.
Erik: I know one thing for sure: you have the best interests of education at heart. Also, I have no reason to be an obstructionist, I would like to keep an open mind. I think what turns me off from your arguments is all the business terminology–probably gives me the wrong impression. However, your “I’m saying education currently doesn’t have good improvement measures” is the key and it seems to be saying what I’ve said over and over.” Currently NCLB measures all as if teachers are on an equal footing (teachers in difficult areas with others, etc.) I guess I would say find the good and fair improvement measures first–one that teachers, administrators, parents, etc., could agree on. Then by all means use that measuring stick to evaluate teachers. Until something better is presented I see no harm in holding on to the old–because obviously as yet–by your own admission–there is nothing better and there could be something worse to replace it. Not all change is good.
PS–Subjectively, I can tell you how I wanted to be evaluated. Probably, for most of my years, the wording I saw most on my evaluations was “has good rapport with students.” However that is achieved, I don’t believe any teacher has a prayer of teaching anybody anything unless some degree of mutual respect is achieved. I started teaching during the really rough years before and during integration in Peoria. Really rough historically but really wonderful for me! Those of you that are younger than I probably will not understand how I saw my role in those years. I was teaching black young people who truly did have little self-esteem–they had been beaten down by society. Before I could teach them, I had to prove to them that I cared whether or not they succeeded, so I put much energy into both: convincing them that I cared and that they could succeed. And I did care and I loved teaching them. Now I don’t know how to measure that but that’s how I saw myself. Throughout my career, I tried every way possible to present the subject matter in a way that my students could understand it. I honestly don’t know how often I succeeded or how often I failed, but it wasn’t for lack of trying.
Sharon-
Sounds like your students were very lucky to have crossed paths with you. Your passion for teaching is very evident in your blog entrys.
Sharon,
between you and me,
“I can tell you how I wanted to be evaluated”
bingo, isn’t that the first place to start the conversation?
and, i call my wife obstructionist too, it’s every time she and i talk about performance measures she cites many of the same things you did. gets her fired up too!
Erik: At last, common ground–( at least, with your wife 🙂 )let’s not lose it! All District 150 problems must be solved by first finding common ground.
Oh and Frustrated…Behavior: Thank you for the kind words. Teachers past and present–like students and maybe even administrators :)–always need kind words.
Have you all heard that all primary and middle school library managers got their pink slips? Having not taught in primary or middle schools recently, I hadn’t known how important that role is until I’ve been hearing from teachers and parents on the subject.
Jon – A school district in Maryland has developed a measurement of sorts for parents to determine if their child is on track for success in college called the 7 Keys to College Readiness. I like the idea of getting specific information out to parents. Apparently the supporting information to these key concepts spells out in detail the courses and tests that officials say point toward academic success and that parents should be scrutinizing.
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/keys/
I really like the concept this school has adopted, as it makes the parents accountable for monitoring if their child is reaching the educational milestones they should.
District 150 needs to adopt a similar model with different metrics for its failing schools. And this was Sharon’s point, correct me if I am wrong Sharon, with her complaint of the Board setting arbitrary graduations goals. Setting graduation goals and looking to high school teachers to get the job done is “too little, too late,” If the District wants to ensure a certain percentage of high school gradautes, then it needs to do its “homework” and develop numerous measurements during the primary and middles school years. Education is a long term process
Frustrated: You are not wrong. Too bad common sense isn’t used to make these judgments. I’m sure someone will tell you that the benchmarks are providing the information. Unfortunately, the benchmarks tell where a student is with regard to academic development. Teachers are still left with the monumental task of figuring out how to get students from one benchmark to the other.
it’s every time she and i talk about performance measures she cites many of the same things you did. gets her fired up too!
Erik, does your wife know you are discussing this on a public blog? 😉
I just got into my hotel in Milwaukee. My cousin is getting married so I shouldn’t be on much.
But I had to say a couple of things…
kcdad: you post above listing teacher issues was dead on the mark.
Diane: no I do not have my superintendents endorsement. I would like to start classes next year. I also feel that I am far too green as an administrator to take on that enormity of this type of job. I am still working out my educational theories on the building level.
Also Erik: I see your arguments about the tenure system but I deal in realities. I can’t the current system so I need to ask myself what can I do within this system. Its all about the serenity prayer and knowing what can and cannot be changed is the first key step.
We can’t change how much parents stress education at home (well not directly), we can’t change tenure laws, etc.
But we cannot use these facts to accept current performance. Your best teachers are driven to do better regardless of the surroundings and regardless of the hurdles.
Have a great weekend all! I have to break away and see my relatives that I haven’t seen in years, but this is great converstation.
Education is not a one size fits all, one goal and one only business. There is no known result from education… it is a mystery that occurs when the student realizes their potential and world changes because of it. (Perhaps it is only the world of the student that changes… but how is that any less miraculous?)
You don’t go into education thinking… I am going to make this kid a lawyer and that kid a doctor. You go in thinking “What can happen today that will change the world (for the better)?”
kcdad: I have to admit that I love your above statement and I agree with it completely. Every time I’m asked why I teach, my first answer is, “To change the world and to do it through empowering children.” I also agree that changing even one student is a wonderful thing. That’s why I don’t understand why you sometimes seem to feel like what we do in the classroom is unimportant or unnecessary.
Sharon: Yes, there will be no library managers at the primary and middle schools. I’m just wondering how they are going to be able to use the library with no one in there. I don’t see a way to eliminate the position and still use the school libraries. If the administration says there is no need for a library manager, then they can’t put anyone in there to keep it maintained and do the duties of a library manager. Are the libraries the next victim of the district? How can this move be something that benefits the students?
Whew! Dodged a bullet! THANK GOD THEY DIDN’T HARM ANY CENTRAL ADMIN!!!
In happier news, Baby Eyebrows is here:
http://peoriarocks.blogspot.com/2009/05/baby-eyebrows-greets-world-with.html
Steve writes
“I can’t [change] the current system so I need to ask myself what can I do within this system.”
word in bracket is mine, interpreting context of steve’s comments. i’m not disagreeing with you, per se, but…
why can’t you change the current system (rhetorical)? why must we be victims to circumstance?
i think a lot of us get frustrated by systems and in our interaction with them see little opportunity to change direction. yet, it happens. often, an approach is to make dramatic instead of incremental change. I don’t think the former works at all.
take, for instance, the performance evaluation piece i cited above from district 158. they recognize they cant force tenured teachers into a performance evaluation process, but did get into the contract a provision which allows for voluntary evaluation resulting in the potential for more compensation for the teacher. that’s an incremental change. it’s innovation.
does it actually get used in 158? i dunno. i remember reading about michelle rhee offering DC teachers six figures to leave tenure and work solely on a performance-based contract. not many took the challenge, but some did.
incremental change…
Erik: You’re talking merit pay–by another name perhaps. First of all, how soon will District 150 have enough money to dole out extra for outstanding teachers–six figures? Of course, the more unacceptable alternative would be to put everyone else at a much lower pay rate–and then teachers are at the mercy of administrators who play favorites, etc–and a district that doesn’t have enough money, so standards would have to be so high that only a very few could make the higher salaries.. Please don’t say that won’t happen; it will. Nevertheless, we still have the same problem–no one has come up with a fair and good evaluation method. Question: Would administrators be on the same system? How will their performance be judged? I guess we’re seeking common ground again. And this is a great forum for getting ideas on the table.
I don’t believe there is an metric available to measure educational improvement. How do measure which flower in your garden is prettiest or smells the best? Improvement for a 145 IQ C- student from a upper class family of 3 and a 100 IQ C- student from a working class family of 8…. If they both get Bs next grade period… is that equal improvement?
As to how I want to be evaluated, I want my fellow teachers to be jealous of me and want their classes to be as exciting, innovative and fun as mine… I want them to hear students and others say “I want to take kcdad’s class.” I want them to read my evals and think “Wow, what a great job he is doing… I wish my classes were more like that.”
AND … I want to feel the exact same way about their classes and evals… We should be challenging, encouraging and recognizing each others’ achievements and failings so that EVERYONE benefits. “A rising tide raises all boats” is not a great metaphor for economics, but it is a pretty good metaphor for education.
It needs to be a mutual discovery of excitement and meaning for the teachers as well as the students. If we aren’t learning something new everyday in and out of the classroom, we are absolutely no good to our students. If we can’t compete in a friendly way with our peers to be the BEST TEACHER in the grade level, school, district, county or state…then at least we need to compete to might be measurable. Perhaps we can evaluate how hard a teacher is trying… Like Potter Stewart’s famous quote… “I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so.
But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.”
You DO know it when you see it.
An Administration made up of teachers… each teacher sitting for one or two years as Principal working with a board or council of other randomly or democratically chosen teachers would be responsible for all “admin” duties within the school including evaluating and encouraging and inspiring the entire community of teachers.
Payrolls must be open to peer scrutiny, frank discussions of individual student’s needs, strengths, weaknesses and interests. Curriculum must be open to change at a moment’s notice.
Side thought: What if teacher salaries were pooled and divided by the teachers themselves? You have ten teachers and a pool of 400,000 dollars… each teacher can have an equal share, or each teacher can a share based on teaching evals from peers and students and parents or each teacher can have a share based on the size of their own families… I know that I would be willing to take less pay than a teacher with children or an elderly parent that needed care. Why? Because we are a community and the community would benefit from that teacher getting more help with expenses.
Steve: You can not change the tenure system… only HR can do that; the next time teacher contract comes up. Simply refuse to renew the part of the Union contract that demands tenure. If teachers threaten to strike, tell them go ahead. There are plenty of people like myself that will teach for a lot less than they demand until they get the message. Then hire teachers on 3-5 year contracts that preclude any one Principal from deciding on a teacher’s merits. This insures they would be under the review and support of at least 3 different “councils” and Principals and more likely to get a fairer evaluation for renewal of their contract.
The alliance of teaching schools, accreditation, and the teachers’ union is powerful… but not invincible. “We have nothing to fear but fear itself!”
SHARON!!! ‘First of all, how soon will District 150 have enough money to dole out extra for outstanding teachers–six figures?”
There is NO teacher in the world that should demand $100,000 a year to teach. Teaching is NOT an economic enterprise and NEVER should be. Teaching should be a I can’t do anything else BUT TEACH. It is an honor and privilege to be able to be a part of this process… after all… what the heck does a teacher do? Helps others achieve something… it is the student that does all the work. The cool thing about being a teacher is that it is like prostitution… you’ve got it, you give it away or sell it, and you still got it! Why not just become a prostitute and and go for the big bucks?
Sure, I have a lot more education than some… yeah? So? I know some things other people don’t… yeah, that is why you are teacher… so that everyone will know what you know.
Teachers should be paid to teach of course, but it should not ever be “selling one’s teaching” as if it were a commodity. “You want me in the classroom another 30 minutes per day, that’s gonna cost you more money or more vacation or whatever”…
It saddens me to no end to even think that teachers might think that way. I think this one of the reasons that we get such lousy teachers sometimes. They think it is a respectable easy way to make some big bucks…. teach for a few years, get into administration and BINGO! Or even bigger money, teach at a college and BINGO!
It should be a struggle to get a teacher OUT of the school before the doors are locked. (Wouldn’t it be great if you couldn’t get both the teachers and the students out of the school?)
i appreciate both your comments, but you’re we’re still talking about two different things. at the very beginning of this i merely mentioned that tenure was an impediment to continuous improvement; continuous is synonymous with incremental.
here’s a question, what are the arguments for tenure? and, how come they only apply to academics?
tenure isn’t restricted to k-12, right.
Erik: I don’t think we are ever going to agree on the subject of tenure, so there’s no point of going round and round on the subject. I believe that those who want to get rid of tenure also want to get rid of unions. I understand the arguments against unions and tenure. (And my holding my ground isn’t going to do one bit of good–whatever will be will be–it just makes for good discussion on this blog). There is no doubt that all unions have lost much power–with globalization, etc. Also, with people like Glenn Barton inserting himself into educational issues in Peoria (by backing the charter school, etc.), there seems to be a clear effort toward union-busting in District 150–and administrators aren’t smart enough to realize they will lose big time because their salaries will be reduced when teachers’ salaries are reduced. The MOU’s that the PFT has signed recently are examples of the union itself giving away power. I came into this argument late in my career. I didn’t join the union until the 1980s. From 1962 until I joined, I really saw no need for the union. The one and only time that teachers struck in District 150, I did not strike. I joined the union when a friend of mine was treated unfairly in that she was forced to transfer to a middle school position–the transfer was not based on seniority as it should have been–and because of her case, the rules for seniority were established–therefore, for example, the teachers displaced from Manual last year were treated fairly. I came to realize that I had been very selfish by not joining the union–that just because I had been lucky, some of my colleagues would not have been treated fairly without the union. Simply put, I have come to see the value of unions. Frankly, I believe that the teachers’ unions will eventually lose this argument. I won’t live long enough to see it, but I would be willing to bet that someday everything will come full circle again, and workers in this country (and probably in others due to globalization) will once again be willing to risk their lives to reinstitute unions.
I am not sure that I understand this question”Here’s a question, what are the arguments for tenure? and, how come they only apply to academics?” Tenure, of course, doesn’t apply in all academic situations. Those who teach college do not have tenure or unions, right? However, I’m not terribly certain that the rate of turnover is all that great at the college level. I know of college teachers that taught the same thing year after year and even gave the same tests year after year (which helped out the fraternities and sorioties who kept files of the tests). My point is that I am not at all certain that getting rid of tenure will also get rid of bad teachers.
Also, you argue that tenure is an impediment to continuous improvement. Just before I retired, new rules went in place demanding that teachers continue to go back to school to earn credits every five years–the goal being improvement of some sort. Before that time, the only impetus to going back to school was to go up on the salary schedule. I don’t know what kind of improvement you are advocating–improvement that you feel would take place were it not for tenure. Again, we run into the problem of how you’re going to measure that improvement. Do you believe teachers are less dedicated than they were in times past? I’ve always thought it strange that teaching is the only career that seems to require “dedication.” Why is that? Why don’t you have to be “dedicated” to work at Caterpillar?
Diane: Actually, to all who oppose tenure. If you stop and think about all the problems in District 150 right now–and all the decisions that several of us have agreed were bad decisions. Wacky Wednesday, uniforms, no eighth grade graduation, maintaining buildings like Blaine Sumner to house a few employees, closing a high school, getting rid of primary and middle school librarians, etc., How many of these decisions were made by tenured employees? Absolutely none of them. Do you believe that all these non-tenured administrators have the best interest of students in mind? So why do people believe that getting rid of tenure will lead to better schools?
Tenure is an obsolete concept. There are no secure jobs.
“Those who teach college do not have tenure or unions, right? ”
College is where tenure began… it was a protection of publishing and teaching freedom. University professors are required to publish and do research (or vice versa) and there “contributions” to the reputation of the university is protected by tenure… this allows the professor academic freedom to pursue his/her academic goals without fear of “politically correct” or personal reprisals.
High school and elementary teachers demanded it and the administrations caved in to. What use is academic freedom if everyone is teaching the same curriculum? What use is freedom of speech for teachers when they can be sued for it… see California teacher who was sued and lost for saying Creationism was nonsense and didn’t belong in the science classroom.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,518864,00.html
WTF?
Kcdad: The more I thought about it the more I knew I wasn’t on safe ground saying that college professions did not have tenure. Thanks for refreshing my memory. Given the historic nature and purpose of tenure, I can understand why you would assume that public school teachers, who–in large part–are not allowed to exercise academic freedom, do not need tenure. Ironically, the one issue for which public school teachers would most likely be fired would be the exercise of academic freedom. I think I’ll stop beating this horse that isn’t dead yet. I am not in a position to influence any decisions with regard to tenure or unions–we will just have to wait (and complain, depending on which side is winning at any given moment) until that issue plays itself out.
Let the teachers who do the resarch and publish their work have some type of protection that university academics now have.
No research or publication within a set period of time then you are in a less protected cohort.
Publish and achieve a more protected status.
Does writing on the blog count? Ha!
Tenure is NOT a guarantee of a job. I was granted tenure in my district 2 years earlier than most districts grant it (4 years in many). My position was eliminated due to declining enrollment and tenure did nothing to help me keep my job. Attacking tenure is a red herring. Most professions promote and retain based on seniority. This is all that tenure is.