23 thoughts on “Math, Science and Technology Academy Update”

1. CJ – Could you please expand your visual by 6 blocks in each direction. I think it might better represent the tie-in capability. Thank you.

2. Question — since when did this become a school through the 12th grade?? That was NOT the original proposal (look it up).
   1) This sounds like more ammo to get rid of Peoria High (since they need to get rid of a 4th high school according to some) since the new MSTA will be in Peoria High’s enrollment area and virtually in their backyard. I recall that one of the school board members questioned the addition of the high school grades a few months ago at a school board meeting, yet it continues to be part of the proposal. Peorians, this is NOT what was originally proposed. Do you really want 4th graders (9-10-year olds) going to school with high school seniors, among other concerns??
   2) Even with an enrollment cap, this school will siphon off even more of the brighter students from the high schools, particularly Peoria High, Woodruff and, to some degree, Manual. Richwoods would be the least affected (once again) because of their IB program. So test scores at the 3 high schools affected will continue to decline as the better students emigrate to the newest academy.
   3) I like the idea of a charter school that focuses on math, science and technology but the specifics of this plan are scary. Why not have the school enrollment run through 8th grade and then have the high schoolers go to a “new” academy at either Manual, Wodruff or (most logical) Peoria High????
   Please think this through before accepting this plan.

3. My not so very humble suggestion:  Don’t follow the “if we build it, they will come dream.”  Why not poll the parents first to see how many would actually be interested in sending their children to this school? Do you really believe that students north of War Memorial (maybe even Forrest Hill) will be flocking to this school?  There are schools in District 150 that are successful–so why would parents pull their kids out of those schools to attend this one–an unknown, an experiment?  Won’t this school draw the better students from the already failing schools–which, of course, means that the those schools will decline even further and/or the school will probably draw students who are not academically strong.  I’m not trying to be a pessimist–just a realist.  I know that the hype for the restructured Manual made it seem possible that Manual would become a “choice” school.  Well, that didn’t happen–only 13 kids from other areas chose Manual’s 9th grade “success” academy.  Why would a school on Moss Avenue (an area to which Washington Gifted parents no longer wanted to send their children–what 20?? years ago) draw students?  Has the area or the perception of the area improved enough to draw children from more affluent areas?  My guess is “NO.”  And then, of course, there is that other subject–from where will these superior teachers come?  Are there enough highly qualified teachers in the Peoria area who will be willing to work in a charter school without a union behind them?  Of course, including a high school is a really bad idea because parents will not want their 4th-8th graders in the same building with high school kids.  I really need to stop predicting and let “nature” take its course as it has at Manual. 
   What might the MSTA look like?  The hype sounds much like the Manual restructuring idealism.  Outstanding students (not just outstanding teachers and programs) are needed to come close to a fulfillment of such idealism.  From where will these students come?  Will students be leaving the already successful private and parochial schools to participate in another District 150 experiment?   How long will it be before the district recognizes that what is really needed is a state of the art alternative school–then all the high schools could become “choice.”

4. Sharon –you raise some important points. I thought it would be a middle school environment, 5th through 8th, which is the natural break within District 150 to move to a new school.  Why 4th grade?  And more importantly why high school?  How populated are upper level math and science courses at Manual, Central, and Woodruff?  Is there really a need for more?  My friend’s son, who is a strong student, graduated this past May from Central and there were typically 10 or less students in his advanced classes? (Which she said were wonderful!)  What is the District’s plan to reduce the inefficiencies in its delivery of these classes?  Grouping high school students together seems like a good idea, but not with 4th and 5th graders in the same building.  Seems like an end run around the difficult decision to close a high school, which is really what is needed and make Richwoods into an exclusively college prep school that anyone in the District can attend with the right academic credentials.  If the District is going visiting maybe they should visit Northside College Prep, the number 1 rated high school in Chicago that draws from a diverse community.
    
   Can a Charter School require some type of minimum qualifying scores for entrance?  It seems if students do not perform at some adequate academic and conduct level upon admission to MSTA it will be difficult for the school to achieve its long term goal of turning out students that excel in the math and science and are prepared to continue their training at the college level.  I disagree with Sharon, however, on the level of interest in the community.  I believe there would be many families, particularly those whose students presently attend Whittier that would be interested in  attending such a school, if an academic screen was used to determine admission into MSTA.  There are many good students that attend Whittier and if they do not get into Washington Gifted, they have little options.  Likewise, it may draw students that live north of W. Memorial, if it offers a superior curriculum and academic pace.  As a parent I would only believe that would happen if there was a performance filter on those selected.  I would be interested in what the capacity is for the school.  How many 5th grader, for example would it need to attract to be “full.”  At Washington Gifted it is 60 per grade.
    
   I think the fact that MSTA might siphon off good students from other failing schools is not only irrelevant but also a decidedly inappropriate consideration.  Parents and students of modest means but who otherwise possess adequate desire and ability to move ahead, and yet are trapped in failing schools must feel a sense of unimaginable hopelessness at not learning along side other students and families that value education.  If the best students in failing schools are selected or choose to attend MSTA, I could certainly sleep well at night. 

5. Wow.  Great comments.  This really highlights the value of blogs.  Had my only information on this school come from the propaganda, I would believe it was an inarguably great thing. 

6. I’m not at all well-versed on charter schools, but I think there are definite restrictions as to the kind of screening that can take place to eliminate students (to choose only the better students) from charter schools.  I’m not sure that there can be a qualifying exam based on scores, etc.  Again, I’m not sure–but that should be researched to be on firm ground.  I agree that Whittier parents would be interested (depending on the academic level of the student body at the new school–and might I add discipline issues, too).  I’m just completing a study of how many West Peoria students now go to St. Thomas, St. Phil’s, St. Mark, Christ Lutheran, Peoria Academy, Hollis, Peoria Christian, Richwoods, Notre Dame.  Whittier is still holding its own with 144 West Peoria students but West Peoria enrollment in middle school and high schools drops considerably–some of these parents might be willing to switch (after they know more about the new school).  Actually, my prediction was that parents north of War Memorial (or Forrest Hill) won’t be applying in great numbers.

7. I believe there was some mention of also using Central High School as a part of this, perhaps running the high school level stuff there.

8. Per Illinois School Code — charter schools are open to all students within a school district’s boundaries.

9. Frustrated:  Thanks for the information.  Can the fact that charter schools are open to all students within the district be interpreted to mean that there can be no entrance requirements?  What are the legal means of accepting or rejecting students for charter schools?
   One other question about charter schools about which I am not clear:  How much control will District 150 lose?  My own limited understanding is that the district would lose control for five years and that the charter school would be managed by a separate board, etc.  Also, state per pupil money would go directly to the charter school, not to District 150 for disbursement.
   While I understand the desire of other groups and parents, etc., to want a charter school, I cannot understand why District 150 is so anxious to give up control and money.  I especially don’t understand since the charter school might also take away talented students from 150 schools, thus further eroding the test scores, reputation, etc., of 150 schools. 
   If charter schools are somewhat separate entities, how could the high school component be housed at Peoria High?

10. Did you see the blurb in Tarter’s interview with Tanya Koonce? She said there was a citizen who was looking to do local commentary.
    Any ideas who that might be?

11. “The site they describe as “located in the heart of technology development, Renaissance Park”.

    According to the  Renaissance Park web site map the new MSTA is not within the  Renaissance Park district. Am I wrong? It was orignaly planed for the White School that is in the Renaissance Park area. Why was it changed?

12. Mazr — Not me.  Maybe Billy?

13. Sharon – This is a link to recent journal article that will answer some of your questions regarding charter schools. 

    http://www.iasb.com/journal/j111208_02.cfm

     I do not believe that students can be selected based on performance criteria.  One purpose of a charter school is to offer a unique curriculum, in this case one focusing on math & science.  If the charter school has to alter or adjust its desired curriculum in order to accommodate poor student performance than such a school will not achieve its aims.  As the article points out, charter schools in Illinois, which means Chicago Public Schools (CPS), have had mixed success.
    I wish instead they would make this math & science academy a “selective enrollment” magnet school, which would still be under the control of Dist. 150.  CPS has had great success with this structure, both at the high school and middle school level.  I think such an arrangement would be a success in Peoria and Dist. 150 desperately needs to hit one out of the ballpark given its other setbacks. 
    I agree with you that I think it is strange that the District and the Bd. of Ed. are the champions of this venture????  To me, charter schools seem to have been devised as an end run around poor school board and school administration performance and as a union avoidance tactic.
    C.J. is always concerned with the publics’ ability to have input into the process.  Has there been any opportunity for that with this endeavor?  I think in concept, a math & science academy located in this area is a fantastic idea but the devil is in the details.  How does the public find out more about the proposed details before they become final?  I heard B.U. name associated with the project which would be great but I would like more specifics about who is leading the charge.
     
     
     

14. Not me. Maybe one of my other personalities.

15. C.J. is always concerned with the publics’ ability to have input into the process.  Has there been any opportunity for that with this endeavor?

    Surely you jest.  We are talking about D150, right? 🙂

    In fairness, Hinton did speak to the West Bluff Council about it and even took questions. And BVA is on the advisory committee. I could be wrong, but I believe it was also presented to the Neighborhood Alliance.

16. Frustrated:  I definitely don’t think the charter school route is the answer (as I’ve said before–from an admittedly biased point of view), but I also have problems with the magnet school concept.
    First, I firmly believe that no regular or magnet high school (or middle schools or lower) has a chance of success in District 150 until a full-fledged alternative school is the next important project on the district’s agenda.  Does anyone on this blog agree with me that discipline is a major drawback in 150 schools?  
    Second, I am against any more drain on the talent from the four exisiting high schools–the private schools have already pulled far too many away, so why should the district work against itself.
    Third, I believe the alternative school would allow the regular high schools (with maybe some special programs) to make great academic strides.  The district has tried or is trying everything else (magnet schools, Edison schools, special “elite” programs, etc.  Is there any chance that the district will give in and admit the serious discipline problems that are plaguing so many of the schools?  Facing the truth would certainly be an encouraging start toward a real solution.
     

17. Sharon- I am going to have to “go to the mats” on this one.  I think the District does need a middle school math & science academy with a selective enrollment.  That selectivity does not have to be anything more than average to above average performance, good conduct, and some requirement of parental commitment.  Doing well in science and math is about working the material.  No teacher, no matter how great, is a substitute for working additional problems at home, especially if the student is not a natural at these subjects.  Parents that understand and are willing to create a home environment to achieve success is a must.
     
    I agree with you that the District does not need another high school, other than an alternative one as you suggest.  I do think the high schools need reworking.  I think Richwoods should develop a “selective enrollment” college prep program open to anyone in the District and if they want to develop a special emphasis on math & science, that would be outstanding as well.
     
    I do not understand your comment about the District working against itself, if it were to open a magnet school.  Wherever a good student is located in the District, the District still gets credit for it.  How many students at Manual do you believe are in honors classes?  Would they not benefit from learning in an environment where more students have that same goals?

    You have being doing a lot of data collection relating to Peoria residents fleeing to the private schools.  Clearly what the District is currently offering is not an enticement.  Shoring up dicipline will improve things for existing students but I do not think it will do anything to attract families back into the fold.

18. A few more questions? At these neighborhood association meetings, etc., has any group been proposed or stepped forward as the sponsor of a charter school.  Isn’t such an entity necessary?   Is CEC (what of Lombard, Illiinois?) the only hat thrown into the ring so far?  How interested is this group in coming to Peoria?
    Also, I have often heard about Bradley professors who would be interested in teaching part time at the math/science academy charter school.  How many college professors, especially in the areas of science and math, would want to (or even be capable of) teaching 4th-8th grades?  I know that as a high school teacher, I would have been uncomfortable and probably incompetent in a 4th grade class room.  Is there a shortage of math and/or science teachers?  I believe that Manual recently may have found it difficult to find qualified science teachers.  If this academy is to be successful and specialized, aren’t highly qualified teachers essential?  I would assume that highly qualified experienced teachers would be preferred.  Can such teachers be lured from area schools to go to a school with no union protection, etc.?  Maybe so, I am just asking because I really don’t know how to assess the possibilities of drawing teachers to a charter school.

19. What I meant by the district working against self is that every time there is a magnet school or program (Washington Gifted, Edison, Richwoods advanced program, etc.),  more and more good students are pulled out of home schools that essentially become dumping grounds.
    At least three of the high schools right now have relatively few bona fide “enriched” students.  Ask some of the teachers of enriched classes about the calibre of students placed in classes labeled as “enriched.”  These classes have to be watered down because unqualified students are enrolled in the classes.
    By the way, I think students in strong basic classes can get a very good education. 
    I think the district is already depending on these magnet schools to shore up its reputation and to keep students in the district–and it isn’t working.  The problem is that the district is just letting the lower performing schools sink–and the number of sinking schools are becoming the majority (especially, if we must continue to use the NCLB measuring stick).  I apologize for taking up too much space on this subject–I’ll stop to give the rest of you a chance.  I really do want to hear some other views (or agreement if that’s possible).

20. Sharon – I understand what you are saying, but I do not think retaining above average students in failing schools will solve the issue.  Although the District has made some gaffs, its ship is sinking mainly because of a change in demographics.  They need to do something to turn that tide and must continue to offer alternatives to attract and retain families with choice.  The District’s image is so tarnished that offering an o.k. education at home schools will not do it.  It is interesting that you believe that the District is neglecting its poor performing schools.  I think from the perspective of parents whose children are performing successfully within the District, it appears that the District utilizes all its resources on attempting to shore up its failing schools.
     
    I will stop taking up space as well.  I admire you for your passion about this subject.  It is disappointing that so few others that so adamantly blog in about the fate of Big Als, the museum , walkable neighborhoods, etc. appear to have so little interest in the of affairs of District 150.  I think so many good things would automatically happen for Peoria if it could “fix” its public schools. 

21. Short note (I hope).  I agree that the district is sinking money into failing schools (Manual, for instance), but they are using it for the wrong “fixes.”  Maybe the alternative school wouldn’t be the major help that I hope it will be (it certainly would have been 20 years ago) but it’s worth a try–and needed.  The change in demographics, of course, is due to the increasing number of families moving out of Peoria or into private schools–a vicious circle.  I also have come to realize (probably in part due to the comments or lack thereof on this blog) that the south side schools are of know concern to anyone but south siders.  I doubt that very many people (only those directly involved) care what happens at Manual.  I still believe (rather biblically) that what happens to “the least” of us has a great affect on all of the district–the reputation of the schools on watch and warning lists does determine the reputation of the whole district.

22. Dear Frustrated,

    I invite you to my blog site where I have posted app[roximately 20 blogs concerning #150. http://widmer-peoria-watch.blogspot.com

    All the discourse was interesting.  No school can suceed without discipline which is largely lacking at 60% of #150 schools.  I was made aware recently that Federal Government intervention a long while back has made it very difficult to discipline kids on any of the school grounds.

    No school is better than it’s principal.

    I do not know the answers to many of the questions but it is my belief that no charter school of any type. can be run by the present administration and their dominating unions, can succeed in Peoria.

    Would be like the hyped “Community Builders” and Joyce Banks.

    Hmmm.

23. Pingback: The Peoria Chronicle » D150 approves charter school applications

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