Regular commentator Mahkno has left a most interesting comment on the Peoria Pundit website that I’m going to shamelessly steal and quote in its entirety here:
Museum folks ran a very push orientated poll this eve. Had a good 30 second to full minute intro about how great the education benefits would be, how much revenue it would bring in (14 million), how many jobs it would create ([250] union jobs), its 86% paid for so far, and how low a burden it would be (25 cents per…).
Would you support a sales tax increase? Mmm no.
What if it were tied to other public service like firefighting and police? Mmmm… no.
What if the tax were only temporary, to expire at some point? LOL… Civic Center? … MMmmm No…
Done.
The statute under which this tax referendum falls is called the “Special County Retailers’ Occupation Tax For Public Safety, Public Facilities, or Transportation” (Sec. 5-1006.5). This statute has been around a while, actually, except that it used to be just for public safety and transportation. The legislature recently amended it to include “public facilities” for the expressed purpose of helping the museum project go forward.
Since the tax can cover not only facilities, but safety and transportation too, it looks like the county and museum officials are contemplating a common political strategy. It happens all the time in Congress. For instance, say you have a pork-barrel project that doesn’t stand a chance of getting through Congress on a pure up-or-down vote. What do you do? You put it in, say, a veterans hospital bill as an earmark. That way, in order to vote against the pork, representatives have to vote against veterans. No one wants to vote against veterans (and certainly no one wants to be on record as voting against veterans), so the bill passes, pork and all. Voila!
The county is at least contemplating the same strategy here. They have an unpopular sales tax referendum for an unpopular museum project, so how do they get residents to vote for it? Of course! Pair it with something people will be reluctant to vote against — like public safety! Who wants to vote against firefighters or police officers? Then they can market it as a public-safety tax instead of what it really is — a museum-funding tax.
Expect the museum-backers to pull out all the stops in this campaign. They’ve already started behind-the-scenes efforts to silence their critics (like me) through intimidation tactics. I suppose I should be flattered that my little blog is perceived as such a big threat.
“They’ve already started behind-the-scenes efforts to silence their critics (like me) through intimidation tactics.”
You don’t think you’re just going to throw that out there and then not give us any details?!
This project is too important C.J.!!! Stop sabotaging it!!!
I’m still of the opinion that if the museum was going to bring any tourism to Peoria private sources of funding would be lining up and having to be turned away.
I say we all write our council-members and tell them that if they raise the sales tax *at all* again before the Civic Center tax goes away (that temporary one, you know) that we’re going to do all of our shopping and eating out in East Peoria until it goes away. I already consider that when I eat out or shop. I go over to the EP Kohl’s rather than the one in Peoria *just because of the sales tax difference*.
If the city fathers can’t see that tax competition in this clear of a situation (a crossing of the river saves you 1% or more!) and are willing to put a further disparity there, they deserve to see the truth of the maxim: if you want less of something, tax it.
So City Council: if you want to raise taxes, you’ll get less revenue because people will shop elsewhere. If you want to do something positive during an economic downturn, cut city jobs in non-essential areas at least proportional to where Caterpillar makes their cuts, and cut back on high salaries and benefits for government staff because nobody else is seeing raises and big benefits. We’re happy to keep our jobs.
As Diane so aptly phrased it: “I’ll admit I’m not privy to nor overly interested in the details. I guess I’m putting my faith and trust in our elected officials and those they choose to consult with.”
BUILD THE BLOCK! Raise the sales tax! Build the sky walk! Build another hotel! Raise the property taxes! Raise the county taxes!
But don’t do anything that would actually make Peoria more competitive and accessible like a North-South Highway or a train station.
(and please, will the last person out turn out the lights?)
got the call also. I really liked the final question- What if the tax was temporary, set to expire at some predetermined date?
In my opinion, some of the local bloggers have studied the museum issue (and other issues, too) more than some of our elected officials. Trust is earned, not bestowed because a person was elected. I think we have a lot of “earning” to do – local, state and national.
We are not dealing with the same economic circumstance that we had when the museum was first proposed. I have to wonder where and from whom all those tourist dollars are going to come right now. No-one has a solid idea when the economy will improve to the point that a family of four will travel across town, let alone across a state line to visit a museum located on Peoria’s riverfront.
Between tax levies and convenience, a lot of shopping is done across the river. From my location in the East Bluff, it is easier and quicker to go to East Peoria or Washington than travel between shopping spots in Peoria.
If every person that strongly supports the museum project donates $1,000 to the cause and enough money is raised that way, build the block! Otherwise, please leave Public Safety tax dollars out of the picture and the VOTE!
What a scam if museum funding gets passed as pork barrel to dollars that designated for public safety!
So CJ, if you end up in a ditch somewhere, who should we have arrested?
Ramble On: Exactly. Your comments are a bullseye! Jack Fought, previous owner of the Community Word ….
“Trust is earned not given.”
In order for other development to proceed and continue on the riverfront the Cat exhibit center and the museum must be built. No new or old development, whether commercial or residential, is proceeding because the Sears block is taking way too long to develop. The existing business’s down there are barely surviving. Every thing is going across the river. Let’s be positive.
Padman: Let’s ne positive. Let’s be realistic. If we must build a museum … then let’s build the museum with realistic expectations not high hopes, pie in the sky expectations. Let’s build the block with mixed use, with retail and not build the museum to nowhere. The museum as designed will be an opportunity to build the wrong museum using the wrong process for the wrong reasons. Building something to build something will not promote the type of additional development to revitalize the downtown area. Let’s be positive.
People give East Peoria way to much credit.
They are only playing catch up to Peoria. Up until 10 yrs ago what was really over there? Now they have a bunch a chain retail restuarants and retail that has been in Peoria for years. If I am going to spend $100 why would I drive all the way to East Peoria to save a few nickles on sales tax?
If you are a WalMart shopper then I guess EP is your place although the last time I looked Peoria has two of those.
I was positive in 1980 and I am positive now. I have no problem with a museum, CAT Visitor Center, mixed-use commercial or beautiful open green space. My problem is how it is being presented. Build with private funds, corporate and individual donations. Have an endowment large enough to keep it open. Leave the tax dollars to basic city services.
From a location in the East Bluff, calculate time and distance to shop at Menard’s. Do I go to Allen road or across the bridge to Washington. It is less than 9 miles to Washington and very little traffic. It is more than WalMart shoppers that cross the river to shop. Urban sprawl has hurt downtown Peoria, not the lack of a museum on the old Sears block.
Peoriafan,
I get your point, but what is your point? I would hazard a guess that most of the Peoria development we are talking about is really ‘downtown’ Peoria development. Who really cares what was in East Peoria 10 years ago……? What is there NOW!?!?!?
What really chaps my buns is listening to Ardis and his new radio spots. Economic growth? Smart business and investment decisions? Have you heard his spew?
The crime here [or at least one of them] is that a museum would have realy worked, and would have proven beneficial to the entire area.
Since the beginning, and I have argued this before, the wrong people have been in charge of this project. Lakeview has not changed one bit since it’s very first opening day. With the exception of a couple of employees, no one there has any idea how to run a museum…let alone a Peoria history museum. The current staff inherited an institution that was merely…running along.
Now, we have the Lakeview crew, local businessmen and local politicians pretending to plan a major museum project! We are entrusting $86-100 million dollars in possible museum funding and raised taxes to a bunch of idiots!
Last question…….
What I would love to hear is someone from the museum explain why they believe that funding has been SO HARD to come by for THERE project!?!?!?
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?
Karrie,
I agree to a point about having more mixed retail/office or residential use on the sears block. In fact a hotel should be part of the development. However, there is only so much space. Maybe this discussion will get them to review what is proposed. We all know the big draw will be the Cat center, not the museum, especially if the museum charges too much to get in.
There’s no way this is going to pass in a fair election, I’d be watching for a Chicago-style election (hey, dead people don’t pay taxes, so they’ll all vote for it).
Our Peoria County Administrator is working hard with the Museum committee to convince County Board members to not only allow the referendum, which I will agree to, if properly worded, but to also vote on the issue of a statement that Board Members support the wording of the referendum.
Since the unions appear to have started putting pressure on the union affiliated members of the County Board, I believe the board will vote yes. And at least one has indicated willingness to campaign to sell the referendum to the community . The vote, whatever all the wording the referendum contains will probably be easily passed by the board, but probably not unanimously.
86% of the money and pledges already raised? News to me.
He also worked closely with our local Springfield politicains to get a law passed that allows referendums for any public facility, including, perhaps a new $32 million BelWood Nursing home.
Merle,
Yeah 86% was news to me too. It wasn’t clear what that 86% was of…. $10 million? $20 million? …$50 million? No dollar figure was tied to it. Just the sense that they were so so close.
I don’t know why the 86% is a surprise to anyone. It has been on the Build the Block website (www.buildtheblock.com) for some time as well as a breakdown of how they arrive at that number.
2nd District Observer,
Is there also a “breakdown” of how they arrive at $14 million a year in revenue?
Lets see…., how many paying visitors will this ‘museum’ have to draw annually to rake in THAT kind of money….? I would love to see a break down of those numbers. Any more “breakdowns?”
I should have made clear that our County Adminstartor is working for the board and a majority of the board has asked him to take the lead position not only in springfield but on the local referendum and especially the wording of the referendum.
We consider him a top adminstrator even though he reads blogs. (Widmer humor)
$38,356 per day. That what 14 million in annual revenues is. $12,785 per eight hour day, or $1,598 per hour every day of the year.
How much will it count to enter that joint? If you get 100 visitors EVERY HOUR as an average, it will cost each person $15.98 per hour. Take a family of four and that will cost you over $60.
Woah… I really messed up.. I divided when I should have multiplied… not $1,598 per hour day, but $4794.50 per hour in an eight hour day…. so now those 100 customers per hour will have to spend $47.94 per person or $191.78 per family of four!!
Sorry… fuzzy math
NV:
I have no idea- you see what I see. I do not have an ‘inside scoop.’ Just saying that the 86% funded number has been tossed around for a while.
Couple of comments to Diane. Up until 2008, I have been a long time member of the Peoria Historical Society, attending select dinners and meetings including the meeting where there was a near physical clash of egos between the society and the museum committee as to the role the Historical Society in the new museum.
I was quoted in the newspaper the next “there are a lot of big ego (self-esteem) in this city, and rightly so, but these egos are going to have to find a way to work together”.
To date, I’m not convinced. Selling this project has at times been “apathetic”.
I believe a lot of dead people who willed or gave precious items to the musuem, some maybe 35 years ago would be very disappointed that these gifts are still in boxes and stacked at headquarters. I’m told that perhaps a year ago these gifts were not adequately inventoried. I’m also told that at this late date the Historical Society doesn’t know how much space is going to be allocated to them. I do believe they plan to close the Adams Street loctation and all gifts and donations will be stored in the new museum to displayed as the director sees fit. Again, the number of sq. feet storage that will be available to them is known at this time.
I was told at this time the Society had little or no space for gifts that may be too large.
Merle – I have a hard time believing that is true. They have a collections manager and I’m sure he is not one to sit around looking at boxes all day. If they don’t want something they don’t accept it. I have donated antique items to the houses and recieved a certificate of acknowlegement within days. Not sure if space is an issue or not. It could be – both houses are pretty full.. but they could always sell those items and use the funds towards house management and maintenance, which is ongoing. As far as the politics go, I have not a clue. I’m just a lowly volunteer and plan to keep it that way. 😉
I am likely to spend a lot more days at BelWood than at a museum. Tax to build a new BelWood does not bother me like3 a museum tax.
Space Shuttles are FOR SALE… just a cool $42 Million.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/12/18/shuttles.for.display/index.html
Let’s just build a climate controlled hangar and spend the rest of the money on the space shuttle acquisition. It would be a far more interesting museum — probably cost less than the current projections and actually be able to generate 360,000 visitors per year.
2nd: Thank you for the link …
http://www.buildtheblock.com/riverfront-funding-progress.html
Interesting information regarding the funding progress. I hope that someone will help me to make sense of this information.
Total project cost $135.9M.
$77.2M for Peoria Riverfront Museum — on main funding page summary — $31.5M committed and leaving a shortfall of $45.7M, which is the only shortfall in Project Capitol Budgets/Costs(vs. Capital). All other costs are committed, granted or coming from some other source.
From the 86% of Goal Page —
“Build The Block” private funding has reached 86 percent of its $78 million target-an impressive $67 million. ….. Efforts are now focused on raising the remaining $11 million to reach The Block’s private funding goal.”
(1) Difference of $45.7M vs. $11M in private funding. Why would we need a Peoria County wide referendum if this is private funding? What am I missing from this data?
From the $23 Million in Public Support page
“The Peoria Riverfront Museum has received strong bipartisan support from a broad base of elected officials. To date, public support for The Block totals more than $23 million or about 40 percent of the public funding target of $58 million.
(2) What is costing $58M of taxpayer money when the Capitol Budget states that the shortage is only $45.7M or $11M depending on the page viewed? Again, what am I missing?
(3) Are these figures outdated?
(4) Is the project cost higher for the museum than the $77.2M? (Please note that the $41M for the Caterpillar Experience is included in the $135.9M total).
Thank you for your help.
Diane,
No insult intended here..at all, but you need to get a clue when it comes to the Peo Hist Society and most of the other groups involved with this project. Merle is 100% correct. I am willing to bet he has been on the ‘inside’ for quite sometime.
Let me reiterate…
The PHS has had someone in charge of collections for years. You may be a good realator, but what do you [or most of the people involved in these organizations] know about historical preservation/conservation? You assume that because they hired a ‘guy’ to manage the collections that that is what he is doing…at least correctly.
The reputation of the various organizations alone coupled with Lakeview’s minimal contributions makes this entire project laughable.
You do not have to take my word for it, or of course even Merle’s [Merle and I play poker and drive fast cars together], but I was hoping we would not have to get nasty.
You may have a lot of socialite buddies on the boards of all these ‘institutions’, but that does not mean they are the ‘right’ people for the job.
The proof IS IN the puddin’. I believe that one of the biggest problems with this entire project [besides lack of funds] is a lack of public confidence in the ‘people’ running the show.
OK, OK this is my last….
Diane,
Before you mention it, yes I have been to many Peo Hist Soc, Arts Partners, Wheel o’ Time, etc events. Of course, I have never walked up to you and introduced myself as ‘New Voice,’ have I? If PeoriaIllinoisan wants to blow his cover, that is his business.
NV – Have you been spiking the eggnog again? I have no idea what you are talking about. What does the PHS even have to do with the subject of this thread?
In my opinion, some of the local bloggers have studied the museum issue (and other issues, too) more than some of our elected officials.
Ramble, what proof or circumstantial evidence do you have to back up this claim, other than you agree more with the bloggers than you do the city council?
That’s why I said it was just an opinion. I don’t read every blog and I did not make a sweeping statement that ALL bloggers have studied ALL issues. Many seem to have a personal passion and in those cases, they seem to study that particular issue in depth. I didn’t say a word about the new hotel or Big Al’s moving. I think a classy hotel to go with the Civic Center and its expansion may be a real positive for downtown. I do not feel the need to comment on everything I agree or disagree with, but I do feel strongly that the museum expense should be private not tax dollars
PHS = Peoria Historical Society….
And by the way, I can confirm from sources I have at the PPL (Peoria Public Library) and other historical preservation sources that the PHS has routinely had artifacts and donations disappear from storage and end up in the board members’ living rooms.
Their archiving system is inadequate and inaccurate.
(Of course, if it were otherwise, the board would have trouble stealing… er I mean … displaying those donations.)
Somehow the Museum thread got intermingled with the Hotel thread and it has resulted in some confusing dialogue.
Diane? How much caffeine? (perhaps someone spiked YOUR eggnog)
Kcdad – How reckless and irresponsible for you to accuse the PHS of misappropriating donations. For all practical purposes YOU are an anonymous commenter commenting that YOU can confirm from anonymous sources that these acts took place. That and a quarter will buy me a cup of coffee and CJ I don’t think you should allow him to make these kind of slanderous remarks on your blog. Is KCDad’s objective to undermine support for an important organization? This is how blog’s get a bad rap…
Diane,
I respect your opinion, but come on…they don’t call it the ‘Hysterical Society’ for nothing. KCDAD did launch a Whopper of a post, but fair is fair. WHY are YOU so quick to defend PHS? Do you REALLY understand what makes an historic preservation organization work?
I am sure that many of the people involved with these groups are buds of yours, but that does not mean they are qualified to have Peoria’s past placed in their laps.
Outside of a few cute fundraisers and artsy-fartsy [sp?] dinners, have you had any real experience with the inner workings of the PHS or any of the collaboration partners, or do you just take their word on the matter?
What KCDAD is saying is common knowledge. Do a little i-net research on your own.
You are absolutely correct though, Peoria’s history is very important. In fact, it is far to important to be trusted to a number of SOCIALITES and area BUSINESSMEN, who don’t know their head from their _ _ _ when it comes to preserving this areas history, etc.
Kodad: if you have thqt kind of info about phs board members, you have an oblogation to report it to the States Attorney office or the police department. Do it in an anonymous manner if you don’t have the courage to do it in person. Those folks are committing a crime.
Why? What obligation do they have to the States Attorney? They receive “donations”. They are theirs do to with as they please. Just because you or others may trust them to do what is in Peoria’s best interest does not make them liable to do so. Besides… what is Peoria’s best interest?
Wacko,
This entire thread began, in part, with C.J. writing: “Expect the museum-backers to pull out all the stops in this campaign. They’ve already started behind-the-scenes efforts to silence their critics (like me) through intimidation tactics. I suppose I should be flattered that my little blog is perceived as such a big threat.”
Certain people in this city are ‘blessed’ with the clout to do what ever they please. What else is the so-called Museum Collaboration Group willing to do to get their project funded?
What are we on now…the 100th extension? Who has that kind of pull?
Merle is correct [weird as it sounds], this has gone FAR beyond the need for a museum – historic preservation, education, etc…. This is going to get political-ugly before it is over. Somebody has an agenda here…and they DO NOT have Peoria’s best interest at heart.
Still waiting for Diane[and crew] to respond…..?
respond to what?
Diane:
NV’s questions…
WHY are YOU so quick to defend PHS?
Do you REALLY understand what makes an historic preservation organization work?
Outside of a few cute fundraisers and artsy-fartsy [sp?] dinners, have you had any real experience with the inner workings of the PHS or any of the collaboration partners, or do you just take their word on the matter?
I recall that the PJStar had at least one article (perhaps more than one)about PHS and their inventory system not being up to stuff. Perhaps you could go to the PPL and search on their newspaper article computer for those article(s).
Following are my answers to your interrogatories
Q: Why are you so quick to defend PHS? A: Oh, its just a silly little quirk about me I guess…it bothers me when anons publicly accuse others of criminal acts.
Q: Do I understand what makes a historic preservation work? A: No, as I fully disclosed, I am just a volunteer.
Q: Do I have any experience with the inner workings of the PHS or partners? A: See answer to Q#2
Would you consider these answers satisfactory or do they render my opinion irrelevant?
… and can someone please draw me a picture or explain very s-l-o-w-l-y since I am not a college teacher what the PHS has to do with the subject of this post?
Diane,
Like I said, I RESPECT your opinion, how ever it must be an ‘educated’ opinion. I will admit, I am not always completely up-to-snuff on the issues I comment on in this blog…..
I am not a college teacher, but I understand the relevence of the PHS [and all of the so-called collaboration partners] to the museum, and THIS post. The way I see it, the Museum Group is one very large chain made up entirely of weak links.
They are expecting the public, etc to hand them millions of dollars and TRUST that they know what is best for Peoria – its past, present and future?
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