Patrick Nichting evidently wants the city to go into the railroad business.
First, some quick background: The council decided Tuesday to sign a temporary agreement with Central Illinois Railroad Company (CIRY) that would officially authorize them to traverse an 1,800-foot connecting track between the western spur and the Kellar Branch. The city is still trying to negotiate a new contract with CIRY, but talks have been fruitless so far.
So, during discussion of this item, Councilman Nichting asked several questions of Corporation Counsel Randy Ray. He asked what would happen after the 120-day temporary agreement expired. Ray answered that we would either have a new operating agreement (contract) or council could decide to go in a different direction. Nichting asked if an option was to make a deal with another rail carrier (someone other than CIRY). Ray said yes. So far, so good.
Then came the zinger. Nichting asked if that rail carrier could be the City of Peoria itself — that is, could the city provide rail service over the line instead of hiring a short line rail operator to handle it. Ray said that would be perfectly legal.
So, let me see if I have this straight: Nichting — a guy who is a strong supporter of outsourcing the fleet management function of the city — wants to start providing rail service in house? Gee, that would only cost somewhere between one and two million dollars just for the engine. Sounds like a brilliant plan. We can fuel it with all that money the city has to burn.
I honestly don’t understand this grudge that council members are holding against Pioneer Railcorp. You may recall that Pioneer has offered to buy the Kellar Branch and western connection for $750,000 or agree to a long-term lease on the line. In other words, they would pay the city money to operate the line, as opposed to Nichting’s plan where the city would have to expend considerable funds to operate the line themselves.
Apparently the council and city staff are willing to forgive CIRY for absolutely any indiscretion no matter how egregious, but will forever spite Pioneer. They won’t accept Pioneer’s apology for filing a SLAPP suit against their critics ten years ago, but they will reward the unapologetic CIRY for endangering the public with a runaway train just two years ago. They hate Pioneer because its founder Guy Brenkman is an unlikable, surly fellow, but they won’t hold it against CIRY that its founder is in prison after he was caught trying to hire someone to murder his wife and girlfriend. They castigate Pioneer for fulfilling its contract with the city and upholding its obligation to the Surface Transportation Board, but they won’t take any action against CIRY for not fulfilling its contact with the city, causing Carver Lumber’s sixty-year-old local business to suffer.
I’ve said it before, and this suggestion from Nichting just confirms it once again. This is no longer about wanting to build a trail. This has become an anti-rail, anti-Pioneer, anti-Carver-Lumber crusade, and the crusaders won’t be satisfied until the rail line is torn out and Pioneer and Carver Lumber are run out of our “business-friendly” town. We’re already spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on attorney fees related solely to the Kellar Branch issue, and we’ve already built a $2 million doomed-to-fail connecting track to the west, and now one council member is implying we should pay millions more to get our own rail equipment and personnel just to do whatever it takes at any expense to keep Pioneer off the line.
Is this really the best use — or even a justifiable use — of the city’s funds? Is this fiscal responsibility?
Sell the line. Stop wasting money. Find a different route for the trail.
I cannot stop laughing at that pic. I love it!
I love it, too. Someone is finally thinking outside the box! Talk about economic development. All of those businesses that need shipping by rail, Peoria will be making money hand over foot.
CJ said, “Gee, that would only cost somewhere between one and two million dollars just for the engine.”
I did a little research, very very little but apparently more than you, and found a rail-car pusher for a little over $100,000. An engine of the magnitude that you are talking is not needed.
Since the tracks in Pioneer Park, including the western connection, are new or already repaired, no repairs are needed right now. Now that there will be low over head and start up, I can smell the money.
As for that doomed connection….All I have heard are opinions and you know they are just like ********, everybody has one. Maybe when somebody actually uses the western connection, it can be shown that it is not doomed. Have you ever thought that what scares businesses away is the fact that you bloggers, not “journalists”, keep talking about the “doomed connection”?
Come on CJ, are you honestly against possible economic development. Tacoma, WA owns their own short line and have been making money with it for years.
With that said I now turn the floor over to the peanut gallery.
Yeah cause I really want a city who is okay with a run away engine opperating trains.
How are they going to be making money hand over foot when the only access is through Union Pacific? You would think economic developement types would be able to grasp the simple concept of competitive pricing. Down by the river 8 opperations competing for business, out north 1 provider.
Also government stepping into to provide services that are already offered by private entities is not economic developement.
Now that we’ve heard from the trail sturmtruppen….
Perhaps a locomotive could be purchased for $100,000. But then you have to have a crew to run it. A place to repair it or contract it out. Where are you going to get fuel to run it? What about the high cost of insurance and believe me that is a very high cost. I personally have owned a locomotive so I know of what I speak. The liabilities, the contracts, the connections to UP and a myriad of other things involved in starting up a business like this are huge. Maybe Tacoma, WA is doing it and doing it well. That doesn’t tell the start up story. Also the western connection is not properly set up and if you take the time to speak directly to UP you will understand what is going on. Also common sense tells you that UP is not going to break a huge long freight train twice a week for a few cars and any kind of decent rate. They have union rules and union rates and insurance to cover and they are not going to accommodate anyone without making money. That’s what they are in business for. Wake up Peoria, we can have the rail and the trail, stop wasting tax payer money on fighting this and embrace it and make everyone a winner. Put money back in the coffers instead of spending them in court or on this “pie in the sky” railroad deal. The city of Peoria doesn’t know diddly about running a railroad.
KEITH BONDS: “I love it, too. Someone is finally thinking outside the box! Talk about economic development. All of those businesses that need shipping by rail, Peoria will be making money hand over foot.”
DPJ: More like someone’s brain fell out of their skull! Spending millions of dollars to shut down a once-operating, still-viable railroad, in the process risking serious future economic development, business retention and existing employers just so a multi-million dollar recreational trail can be built should be a punishable offense!
KEITH BONDS: “CJ said, ‘Gee, that would only cost somewhere between one and two million dollars just for the engine.’ I did a little research, very very little but apparently more than you, and found a rail-car pusher for a little over $100,000. An engine of the magnitude that you are talking is not needed.”
DPJ: You need more than a “pusher”, Keith. A real locomotive would cost a good $1-2 million. For a viable, City-owned and operated shortline, they would lease a 1200 to 1500hp, four-axle locomotive for about $125-150 per day (the only figures I could find were in 1998 – $100-120 per day- and so I figure inflation has increased this figure by more than a few $’s). The daily lease price becomes a year price of at least $45,000, but it’s probably more. In addition, payroll, training, compliance with FRA safety rules, diesel fuel purchases, contract track maintenance and marketing personnel would add considerable cost to such an operation that is limited to two segments of the same rail line, one to serve an actual customer and one that isn’t viable if the City gets its way. I don’t have any exact figures but such costs could easily run up $200,000 to $300,000 a year.
KEITH BONDS: “Since the tracks in Pioneer Park, including the western connection, are new or already repaired, no repairs are needed right now. Now that there will be low over head and start up, I can smell the money.”
DPJ: City operation of the north end of the Kellar Branch will doom any potential for serious economic development at Pioneer Park and will leave Growth Cell Two empty. Carver Lumber won’t return and Globe Energy won’t use rail when they find out the freight rates for shipping or receiving product via the western spur. That’s hundreds of thousand of dollars spent with no revenue to cover it, all for a recreational trail that will also cost millions more.
KEITH BONDS: “As for that doomed connection….All I have heard are opinions and you know they are just like ********, everybody has one. Maybe when somebody actually uses the western connection, it can be shown that it is not doomed. Have you ever thought that what scares businesses away is the fact that you bloggers, not ‘journalists’, keep talking about the ‘doomed connection’?”
DPJ: Carver Lumber ACTUALLY used it march to September 2006,and the failure of the western connection is a proven FACT. Trail supporters lack the courage to accept this, because they know it puts a monkey wrench in their trail plans. Rail supporters warned of the connection’s lack of viability going back to 1999. We explained in detail why it would fail. The City foolishly built it anyway, and just like rail supporters warned, it failed. The City’s promises of “comparable rates and service” were nothing but a pie-in-the-sky fantasy, designed to push for alternative rail service, pretend to be interested in marketing Growth Cell Two for rail-anchored development, rip up the Kellar Branch as quickly as possible then celebrate the completion of the trail. “Who cares if nothing happens at Growth Cell Two?” “Who cares if Carver Lumber leaves town; they employ only 52 people…but the trail will generate 120,000 annual users!”
KEITH BONDS: “Come on CJ, are you honestly against possible economic development. Tacoma, WA owns their own short line and have been making money with it for years.”
DPJ: Nice try, but there is no comparison. Just look at the statistics here:
http://www.tacomarail.com/home/aboutus.asp
Tacoma Rail’s three operating divisions total 204 miles! 100 employees are needed to perform switching service to 75 customers, which generate 103,000 cars annually.
In comparison, Peoria’s Kellar Branch is 8.5 miles in length has one active customer, a second if the line is restored as it should be, and about two future customers. That won’t generate enough revenue for a city-owned shortline to operate at a profit. Any losses will be a drain on taxpayers. And all for a multi-million dollar recreational trail.
Pioneer Railcorp’s $750,000 purchase offer stands. The City best accept it or they’ll be spending hundreds of thousands in taxpayer dollars to fix something that won’t be fixed their way.
KEITH BONDS: “With that said I now turn the floor over to the peanut gallery.”
DPJ: I’m enjoying the clowns from up here -;)
David,
Always nice to hear from someone who knows what he is talking about. The Tacoma reference was to show that it could be done. The majority of the rest was sarcasm.
I am having a problem understanding how prorail is aloud to speculate about the future of rail service needed but the possiblity of business from a trail is shot down or made fun of (gatorade sales), even after proof has been given from cities that have seen growth because of a trail.
The fact is that there “was” only one customer in Pioneer Park. There are currently no customers. There is no proof that they or anyone else will ever return. I have spoken to people who have talked to your future rail prospects and none of them want rail service. The only one that I am unsure about is Globe and they still have never contacted Peoria about rail service.
I would also like to see an appraisal from an independent source. Ours says the track is worth over two million, PIRY is only offering .75 million. Ours may be inflated and/or PIRY’s may be low. Still why sell when you can lease?
You keep throwing out there the fact that the trail is multi-million dollar. I have yet to see anyone mention the rest of the facts. The grants have already been awarded to build the trail. Knowbody is asking for more money to build it. The money is in the bank, not still in your pockets.
As always, thank you for your wisdom when it comes to the railroad industry.
The sarcasm came through loud and clear.
KEITH BONDS: “I am having a problem understanding how prorail is aloud to speculate about the future of rail service needed but the possiblity of business from a trail is shot down or made fun of (gatorade sales), even after proof has been given from cities that have seen growth because of a trail.”
DPJ: I didn’t know trail proponents weren’t allowed (sp) to speculate, but their arguments are easily shot down, because a trail isn’t a reason to build a home or an ice creaam shop. Besides, the city’s primary growth area already has a trail and there is limited potential for housing development along the Kellar Branch. Residential development comes because people need a place to live, not because a trail is nearby. Luxuries are nice, but not an absolute necessity.
KIETH BONDS: “The fact is that there ‘was’ only one customer in Pioneer Park. There are currently no customers. There is no proof that they or anyone else will ever return. I have spoken to people who have talked to your future rail prospects and none of them want rail service. The only one that I am unsure about is Globe and they still have never contacted Peoria about rail service.”
DPJ: I’ve said I doubt G&D is interested in using rail for the existing operation, but their interest in manufacturing some components may change that some day (read: new facility or purchase of vacant building, etc.); Baumgarten received few cars and though I believe they could return if shortline-induced momentum were attained, they’re not vital. Globe Energy will have to reach a certain size before production volume will justify rail service. Until then, contacting the City won’t be necessary. Important is what the one customer (solitude doesn’t mean worthless) and a rail operator want.
KEITH BONDS: “I would also like to see an appraisal from an independent source. Ours says the track is worth over two million, PIRY is only offering .75 million. Ours may be inflated and/or PIRY’s may be low. Still why sell when you can lease?”
DPJ: Railroad track isn’t going to sell at prices comparable to land that can attract buildings. Railroads represent common carrier transportation and the value of their service is far more than any purchase price. I believe 76 miles of track from Hollis to La Harpe was purchased (from owner TP&W) by the Keokuk Junction Railway in 2005 for $4.2 million. The industrial development the line’s revival has spawned magnifies the value of that line. TP&W is the only loser because they failed to provide service. Go ahead and enter into a long-term lease agreement both can agree on, and get the trail build alongside the track. That’s the only true “win-win” situation.
KEITH BONDS: “You keep throwing out there the fact that the trail is multi-million dollar. I have yet to see anyone mention the rest of the facts. The grants have already been awarded to build the trail. Knowbody is asking for more money to build it. The money is in the bank, not still in your pockets.”
DPJ: Not all of the money needed for trail construction is in the bank. Was it $3.2 million that the PPD has in its hands, yet the estimated cost of the trail is $6 million? Should the project go forward there will be cost overruns and delays, which will drive up the price. That you can count on.
DPJ said: “I didn’t know trail proponents weren’t allowed (sp) to speculate, but their arguments are easily shot down, because a trail isn’t a reason to build a home or an ice creaam shop. Besides, the city’s primary growth area already has a trail and there is limited potential for housing development along the Kellar Branch. Residential development comes because people need a place to live, not because a trail is nearby. Luxuries are nice, but not an absolute necessity.”
KB: Your first sentence is an opinion, which you are entitled to have, but it strays far from fact. I said nothing of houses being built along the Kellar. However, houses are built and businesses do pop up because of what a community has to offer,(.i.e. trails, parks, schools)and some people like to live near them. Just last meeting the new owner of the Ice Cream (sp) shop in Dunlap came to our meeting and is in full support of the trail and is depending on it for some of his business.
DPJ said: “I’ve said I doubt G&D is interested in using rail for the existing operation, but their interest in manufacturing some components may change that some day (read: new facility or purchase of vacant building, etc.); Baumgarten received few cars and though I believe they could return if shortline-induced momentum were attained, they’re not vital. Globe Energy will have to reach a certain size before production volume will justify rail service. Until then, contacting the City won’t be necessary. Important is what the one customer (solitude doesn’t mean worthless) and a rail operator want.”
KB: For G&D ‘may’ and ‘someday’ may or may never come. If they do expand, could they not be large enough combined with Globe to make the western connection work? You have said before that if a larger user was on the line, it could work.
DPJ said: “Railroad track isn’t going to sell at prices comparable to land that can attract buildings. Railroads represent common carrier transportation and the value of their service is far more than any purchase price. I believe 76 miles of track from Hollis to La Harpe was purchased (from owner TP&W) by the Keokuk Junction Railway in 2005 for $4.2 million. The industrial development the line’s revival has spawned magnifies the value of that line. TP&W is the only loser because they failed to provide service. Go ahead and enter into a long-term lease agreement both can agree on, and get the trail build alongside the track. That’s the only true “win-win” situation.
KB: All I asked for was to see fair appraisal. Since you bring it up, isn’t Keokuk Junction Railway the one that PIRY stomped on after purchasing them?
The following is taken from http://www.trainweb.org/kjry/.
“On Wednesday, March 13, 1996, Pioneer Railcorp forces moved in to take over the railroad. Several employees were fired, crews were reduced, wages and benefits were cut, and the Keokuk office was all but emptied. It was then I decided to prepare this web page as a memory of the time I spent at the KJ and a tribute to the good people I worked with, most of whom have since left the company. I hope you enjoy the photos.” Nice, very nice.
DPJ said: Not all of the money needed for trail construction is in the bank. Was it $3.2 million that the PPD has in its hands, yet the estimated cost of the trail is $6 million? Should the project go forward there will be cost overruns and delays, which will drive up the price. That you can count on.
KB: I believe the number is $3.98 million. The rest would be from grants that are available but on hold until this is sorted out. Anything else would be from bonds and donations which I will speculate and say there will be plenty. The amount to build also includes no volunteers which I will speculate again and say there will be many. Speculating makes everything sound so perfect.
We need the trail. We have always needed the trail..
George O.
Isn’t “Just last meeting the new owner of the Ice Cream (sp) shop in Dunlap came to our meeting and is in full support of the trail and is depending on it for some of his business” about as silly as speculating that businesses might pop up because service is restored to the Kellar branch? My Lord. Think I’m going to hop on my bike in the North Valley and huff it to Dunlap for an ice cream cone? And I’m not so sure dodging bullets, er I mean riding through the North Valley is something I want to do.
Why don’t we rip out the 15+ year old section of Route 6 North north of Mossville? It is sitting there not doing anything, except growing weeds…kind of like the Kellar Branch. Is a vacant rail line the worst thing going on in Peoria that we have to spend Lord knows how much on lawyer fees, filing fees, city council time and resources, city staff salaries, etc. that could be used to for more essential needs?
The reason why the COP doesn’t sell Kellar to Pioneer is because it will make money. Now if Pioneer owned it and offered it to Peoria for 750K, we’d pay 2 Million for it in a heartbeat. *end sarcasm*
Sell it to Pioneer, let them assist building the trail along side as promised and be done with it.
KEITH BONDS: “Your first sentence is an opinion, which you are entitled to have, but it strays far from fact. I said nothing of houses being built along the Kellar. However, houses are built and businesses do pop up because of what a community has to offer,(.i.e. trails, parks, schools)and some people like to live near them. Just last meeting the new owner of the Ice Cream (sp) shop in Dunlap came to our meeting and is in full support of the trail and is depending on it for some of his business.”
DPJ: Houses are what trail proponents such as Elaine Hopkins claim as “economic growth” tied to trails.
Recreational activities simply are not an economic engine unless its a Disney theme park, Six Flags, a well-patronized museum, or other unique draw. Go ahead and build them, but consequences abound when you underestimate the situation, as the Peoria Park District did.
Schools are needed regardless of “what a community has to offer.” Additional schools are due to population growth, which is a byproduct of job growth. Minimum wage jobs at bicycle shops and restaurants aren’t going to generate that kind of growth. Manufacturing and logistics and skilled service jobs offer pay that can stimulate residential growth. Globe Energy will do this; that ice cream shop in Dunlap will not.
If the new ice cream shop owner is depending on the trail for some of his business, then good for him, but that’s not enough to keep him in business.
KEITH BONDS: “For G&D ‘may’ and ’someday’ may or may never come. If they do expand, could they not be large enough combined with Globe to make the western connection work? You have said before that if a larger user was on the line, it could work.”
DPJ: Not likely. What Growth Cell Two needs is a biodiesel or ethanol plant to generate that kind of volume. These are popping up all over the state, but not Peoria. I’ve already explained why.
Also, I wonder if these companies would really divulge this information. Transportation services may be proprietary to some. Also, did you talk to the right person (traffic manager or plant manager)?
KEITH BONDS: “All I asked for was to see fair appraisal. Since you bring it up, isn’t Keokuk Junction Railway the one that PIRY stomped on after purchasing them?
The following is taken from http://www.trainweb.org/kjry/.
“On Wednesday, March 13, 1996, Pioneer Railcorp forces moved in to take over the railroad. Several employees were fired, crews were reduced, wages and benefits were cut, and the Keokuk office was all but emptied. It was then I decided to prepare this web page as a memory of the time I spent at the KJ and a tribute to the good people I worked with, most of whom have since left the company. I hope you enjoy the photos.” Nice, very nice.”
DPJ: The KJRY lost business as a result of the BNSF merger and was put up for sale by owner. Pioneer reduced staff to cut costs. Billing, customer service and marketing functions were relocated to the Peoria office (I myself performed agency duties for this very railroad when I worked for Pioneer). Sometimes it’s a hard pill to swallow and hardly easy but economic realities sometimes demand it.
KEITH BONDS: “I believe the number is $3.98 million. The rest would be from grants that are available but on hold until this is sorted out. Anything else would be from bonds and donations which I will speculate and say there will be plenty. The amount to build also includes no volunteers which I will speculate again and say there will be many. Speculating makes everything sound so perfect.”
DPJ: The problems constructing an urban trail will gaurantee delays and cost overruns. Speculating gives hope.
The trail has already cost us millions of $. It is called tax dollars. It is not “free money”. It is your money and my money which could be better spent on many other things.
That old section of route 6? Oh that would be connected to the eastern loop through Woodford and Tazwell counties. Another ‘project’ that won’t die or move forward.
How come a private business can “make money” on this Kellar branch but when any discussion of public operation is raised, it’s a “money loser”? I fail to see why the profit dynamics change based on who owns? If one can make money the other surely can if operated correctly.
Peo Proud: Think Gateway Building as one for the City of Peoria. Think Riverplex as one for the Peoria Park District. Perhaps there are other examples.
Karrie – Point taken (at least partially). However, i don’t think that anyone has ever claimed that the private sector would operate either of those operations profitably under the same circumstances. The Gateway was doomed from the get go based upon the layout of the facility (designed as a statement rather than a functional building) and a poor business plan.
The Riverplex, again a money loser, was built based upon faulty figures and market realities. Any private entity operating these two facilities I think would also lose money.
The difference I see here is that proponents of rail on the Kellar Branch say it can be run at a profit. If true, then it should be able to turn a profit for whoever competently operates it – whether that is a local government or a private business.
Note that I’m not a proponent of the City running rail over that line. I’m still a strong supporter of a trail there because I’m unconvinced that rail over that line is needed. But I think that the arguements on both sides need to be based more on facts and logical decisions.
C.J. — I also liked the photo but wonder where you found a picture of him smiling. Usually he is either frowning (like the grinch) or smirking (like the obsessed villian in Rocky and Bullwinkle).
Peo Proud wrote: “How come a private business can “make money” on this Kellar branch but when any discussion of public operation is raised, it’s a “money loser”? I fail to see why the profit dynamics change based on who owns? If one can make money the other surely can if operated correctly.”
DPJ: Motivation is the difference. City-owned railroads exist elsewhere and are successful because the cities actually desire to use rail as an economic development tool. Councilman Nichting’s suggestion puts the trail project above rail service. A Peoria-run operation would likely whither on the vine for lack of interest.
Peo Proud –
While the public\COP might be able to become profitable, how long and how much money would it take to recoup costs associated with purchasing engines, staffing, training, repair, maintenance, etc. that Pioneer currently has or has the resources, knowledge and ability more readily available?
DPJ wrote: “…because the cities actually desire to use rail as an economic development tool. …. A Peoria-run operation would likely whither on the vine for lack of interest.”
PP says: OK, I can buy that. While you didn’t directly state it, you implied (if I read between your lines correctly) that their is no inherent difference in the profit-making ability based on ownership other than the competence of the operator. In that case, I can agree that the City shouldn’t operate (and I never was a proponent of that) because they clearly don’t have the expertise. Heck, they can’t even competently run some of the basic city services.
However, I also don’t think Pioneer is in this for altruistic reasons, they are only going to do it if they can turn a profit and that clearly means buying it for less that it’s worth if possible. If they can only make it go at a purchase price of $750,000 (which I think is too low) – then they shouldn’t be given it when the taxpayers are then subsidizing a private business.
But I think this shows that your prior statement “In comparison, Peoria’s Kellar Branch is 8.5 miles in length has one active customer, a second if the line is restored as it should be, and about two future customers. That won’t generate enough revenue for a city-owned shortline to operate at a profit” was a little biased in my opinion.
PEO PROUD: “I also don’t think Pioneer is in this for altruistic reasons, they are only going to do it if they can turn a profit and that clearly means buying it for less that it’s worth if possible. If they can only make it go at a purchase price of $750,000 (which I think is too low) – then they shouldn’t be given it when the taxpayers are then subsidizing a private business.”
DPJ: First off, $750,000 is a lot of money for 8.5 miles of track that needs work to restore to operation, and the City won’t get more. Pioneer will accept a long-term lease so the issue is moot. Second, Carver Lumber and O’Brien Steel would not be paying anymore for rail service if the line were in private hands (in fact, they might be paying less). The “subsidy” assertion is bogus. Peoria bought the Kellar Branch in 1984 with a state grant, which if the line continued in operation until at least 1996, did not need to be repaid.
Dayton, Ohio’s 4.7-mile railroad is operated by CSX Transportation and that city sees economic development as a way to recoup costs. A hefty per car user fee only deters this, as Peoria found out the hard way in the mid-1980’s. Artificial costs burden users and deter development.
Rail users don’t pay for the cost of acquisition; they pay for the cost of operation and maintenance, which PIRY funded on its own in 1998-2005, and some profit for the operator.
PEO PROUD: “But I think this shows that your prior statement ‘In comparison, Peoria’s Kellar Branch is 8.5 miles in length has one active customer, a second if the line is restored as it should be, and about two future customers. That won’t generate enough revenue for a city-owned shortline to operate at a profit’ was a little biased in my opinion.”
Pioneer Railcorp, and even CIRY, could make a small profit operating the Kellar Branch and serving O’Brien Steel, the ready mix plant, Carver Lumber and perhaps in the near future, Globe Energy. Some railcar storage revenue would only help. Both firms have other operations and thus benefit from economies of scale.
In contrast, a theoretical “Heart of Illinois Railroad Co.” would rely solely on traffic generated by the Kellar Branch. Startup costs would be murder and then there’s the issue of seeking STB authorization for operating authority (which at least PIRY would oppose).
I bought some of your comment until we get to the last paragraph where unfortunately I think you showed the same single-mindedness on the topic that the pro-trail folks are often accused of having.
DPJ wrote: “….and then there’s the issue of seeking STB authorization for operating authority (which at least PIRY would oppose)”
And why should they oppose the operation of a line they don’t own? If the rail supporters are true believers in rail why aren’t thay focusing on the single issue of maintaining service on the line. It always comes back to — let’s give (ok…”sell”) the line to Pioneer. Let’s allow Pioneer to operate the line. Pioneer knows what’s best for the community. This is the component of the arguement that really bothers me more than the ardent support of rail service.
Clearly Pioneer is in it for the money (as most good corporations are). But they also have a hell be damned attitude to those that get in their way or take a different approach on an issue.
PEO PROUD: “I bought some of your comment until we get to the last paragraph where unfortunately I think you showed the same single-mindedness on the topic that the pro-trail folks are often accused of having.
DPJ wrote: ‘….and then there’s the issue of seeking STB authorization for operating authority (which at least PIRY would oppose)’”
DPJ: Single-minded? Precedent shows PIRY WILL oppose such a move, especially knowing that a City-owned railroad company is being formed to advance the city’s agenda (trail construction), rather than provide rail service.
PEO PROUD: “And why should they oppose the operation of a line they don’t own?”
DPJ: Presently, the line must be operated by an existing shortline firm. PIRY was given an opportunity to operate the line, which it did for 7.5 years and believed they were unfairly evicted. They’re fighting to regain something they believe they lost unfairly. If others were that dedicated…
PEO PROUD: “If the rail supporters are true believers in rail why aren’t they focusing on the single issue of maintaining service on the line.”
Please clarify. The fact is, PIRY is the only railroad publicly stating they will operate the whole branch, rehab and upgrade it, at THEIR OWN EXPENSE. Thus, we rail supporters are behind them.
PEO PROUD: “It always comes back to — let’s give (ok…”sell”) the line to Pioneer. Let’s allow Pioneer to operate the line. Pioneer knows what’s best for the community. This is the component of the arguement that really bothers me more than the ardent support of rail service.”
Again, we have to go back to intentions. Nichting’s suggestion was to support trail interests (which he’s free to do), not rail-supported economic development.
Pioneer’s interests are with the Kellar Branch and rail-supported economic development. When they operated it from February 1998 to August 2005, they provided good customer service, increased traffic and did considerable trackwork at their expense. CIRY only recently changed course, petitioning the STB to withdraw its Discontinuance of Service Exemption. Their long-term intentions seems to be to come into line with the City’s agenda. That will destroy most of the railroad and leave Growth Cell Two unviable (not to mention the $2 million wasted on the failed western spur).
This isn’t about the community as a whole. Both sides have pretty narrow interests, rail or trail. A small number of people are affected regardless of the outcome (and you know as well as I that the Peoria Park District will find a way to build the trail alongside the Kellar Branch if they are unable to rip it up). Economical rail service free of a cloudy future enables a community to lure firms involved in renewable fuels, food processing and logistics. That’s jobs. Real jobs. It won’t happen with the failed “western spur.” Competitive rail access is the one economic advantage Peoria can offer if it chooses.
“whoever competently operates it” I think this is the key statement. What does the COP competently operate now that is of equal economic value? How long have they been doing it and what is the profit to the taxpayers to date?
… zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…
I’m only suggesting selling it to Pioneer because they’re a local business, they’ve offered to buy it, help build the trail next to it, and have proven themselves ready, willing, and able to provide good service to customers on the line and make it profitable. That said, if there’s another rail company out there that wants to do the same, I’m all for it. I don’t fundamentally care whether it’s Pioneer, per se, just that the line is preserved as a rail corridor and used to its full potential for economic development.
Now, why not have the city run it? Let me count the ways. They don’t know jack about how to run a railroad or how railroads work in general. They don’t have the money to get into the railroad business — they’re trying to outsource basic things like fleet maintenance and code enforcement, they’re staring down the barrel of a $400 million CSO project, and, well, I could make a long list, but you get the gist of what I’m saying. There’s no justification for it when it’s always been outsourced and there’s no compelling reason to bring it in house as long as there’s a company or companies willing to do it by contract.
But all those reasons assume that the city really wants to get into the railroad business. The truth is they don’t. They want to rip out the Kellar Branch and give it to the Park District for $1/year for 99 years. Now, for all those who have been talking about how valuable this property is ($2 million, did someone say?), can someone tell me why a city that is in dire need of funds would take that property and tie it up in a 99-year lease for $99 for another taxing body — the Park District? Especially when they could be making money on it by leasing it to a short-line operator or selling it to the highest bidder?
But I digress. As I was saying, the city has no interest in providing rail service, as they’ve proven repeatedly. This is a bald-faced attempt to obstruct use of the rail line so it can be turned into a trail. There’s no sincere interest in providing rail service or they wouldn’t be continuing to hold Carver Lumber hostage to exorbitant rates via the western connection; they would have prosecuted CIRY for breach of contract and endangering the public; they would have looked earnestly for a competent rail company to take over the line instead of sticking with CIRY on the promise that they would cooperate with the city’s trail plans. It’s all a farce.
Please, Dear Jesus… let this insanity end. I don’t give a rat’s arse WHAT goes on the damned Kellar Branch… just PLEASE make this all go AWAY…
Thank You.
We don’t want no nasty rail
All we want’s our hippie trail!
or
We don’t want that rail no more
We are RTA’s government whore