140 thoughts on “Peoria parents and teachers to protest school closings at tonight’s School Board meeting”
Thanks teach.
He can still jump though. heh heh.
kcdad: I’ll agree with you that teaching shouldn’t only be information providing, but also encouraging students to learn and develop a passion for things that they have an interest in. I could have put my previous post in better words. HOWEVER, making statements such as “your cancer analogy is stupid” and “What absolute hubris to think you have or know anything that someone else needs to become fully human” without even knowing me personally are the kinds of things that really lead me to believe that you just want to get under peoples skin. You’ve been asked to be in leadership inside your church as well? How Christian of you.
I’d like to believe that you truly care about education in our country and I just want you to answer this for me. Why shouldn’t students and parents also be held partly responsible for a student’s education? You have avoided this question and instead attempted attacking my character.
Erik: I hope that all concerned heard the announcement that I heard on WMBD this morning (probably on other stations as well) about the April 16 meeting. The announcement by PMA made it clear that this meeting is not a forum such as the one promised earlier by Hinton for those who wanted to express their views about school closings. I believe it was a board member who misunderstood the announcement about the April 16 meeting–made at the last board meeting. I think I recall that she stated she was glad to know the district was making good on the promise of a forum–wrong, the district isn’t scheduling any forums.
I think a little clarification on my part is needed. I’m glad those holding the meeting made the effort to clarify the purpose of the meeting–it wouldn’t be fair if the PMA, Erik, etc., would be confronted with community members who misunderstood the purpose of the meeting.
Teachingisphun is right. Parents need to have some responsibility for their children’s education. When a parent tells a student to do what he/she wants regardless of what his/her teacher says, there is a problem. When a student believes it is perfectly fine to backtalk a teacher and tell him/her no when asked to do something, there is a problem. The problem is there is a complete lack of respect for teachers and adults in general. This is something taught to the child before he/she ever enters the school building. We teachers can only do so much when students believe there is nothing to be learned in school. No matter how engaging, hands-on, stimulating, etc. our lessons are, if the students have zero interest in anything going on in the classroom, the teacher has little chance of making a breakthrough. That doesn’t mean we won’t keep trying, won’t keep caring, won’t keep working to touch the child’s heart and mind.
(gives teachingrocks two thumbs up) I’ve just been wanting to hear a response to why students and parents shouldn’t be held accountable for a students education. No personal attacks and no beating around the bush.
Not everything that you need from a well-rounded education is going to be puppy dog tails and rainbows. There are going to be subjects and/or topics that students are not going to like. It’s happened to all of us but I’m willing to say all of us posting on this board persevered through those not-as-fun subjects and did what we needed to. Let’s not make excuses for students, parents, or teachers.
I like to read everyone’s take on teacher pay, lengthening of the school day, union issues, teacher performance, etc. I think before we start restructuring the pay of teachers there needs to be a “meeting of the minds” as to what it is “we” should be aiming for in terms of student performance.
Continuing to insist that students can do better if teachers only try harder or use a more stimulating or cutting edge approach is fantasy. I have not read any definitive research to support the notion that an individual’s academic capacity – i.e. their IQ can be permanently raised exclusively through education. Then you add conduct discussed by teachers posts on this blog and things get really complicated.
There are a disproportionate number of poor children that are below average in their ability to learn, whether due to genes or poverty or a combination of both. Maybe innovative instruction and smaller class size enable teachers to move children from far below average to somewhat less below average, but educational reform will likely not move the bottom half to meet or exceed “grade level” standards as they currently exist in most States. I am concerned that the persistent pressure to meet NCLB has already eroded the educational “standards” of many schools as they feverishly scramble to attain impossible goals.
I think to make education more effective there must be more comprehensive testing of students’ abilities and thereafter the establishment of learning goals that are realistic for the student/teacher to achieve. Only then, does it seem reasonable to evaluate teacher performance in relation to improvement of student academic performance or to condemn a school district and its leaders and brand them incompetent.
Frustrated: Again, we are on the same page. Yes, I believe we have to find a way to help people face reality–that we all can’t be rocket scientists. I know that for whatever reason–nature or nurture–there are fields of study and careers for which I simply have no aptitude. I cringe every time I hear “Every child can learn” and “You can be anything you want to be.” I always want to ask every child can learn “what?” At the same time, I know that there are times when teachers have limited children’s horizons by discouraging them (sometimes without realizing that they are doing so). A good teacher indeed will try to take a child as far as he/she can go, etc. I know that historically many black adults were made to believe (as children) that they could not excel–that is part of our history for which we are paying dearly now. I hope that it is just part of our “history,” not our present.
Nevertheless, what you say is true. The assumption of NCLB is that there is “equality” in the ability of all children to learn. Common sense (and an understanding of our own limitations) should tell us that it just isn’t so. I hope those who support the NCLB efforts will come to realize how much these test scores and their unrealistic expectations are actually limiting the horizons of many children whose self-worth is going to be determined by whether or not they pass or fail this test. Certainly NCLB expectations could well give teachers inferiority complexes–but has anyone really considered what these unrealistic goals do to children?
Frustrated: You asked me once if I never sleep. Well, I always have to wait until you check in at night.
Clarification: It was perhaps District 150 officials who clarified the purpose of the April 16 meeting–per this notice on WMBD website:
School closings will be on the agenda for the Peoria District 150 school board April 20th. Superintendent Ken Hinton is recommending closing Kingman and Tyng Primary schools the end of this school year – along with Irving Primary, one Middle school and one high school the end of next school year. PMA Financial Network, hired to evaluate the district’s budget and try to make it understandable, claims that scenario will result in a $2-million surplus in the district’s Education Fund the end of next school year and an additional $3-million surplus in 2011. PMA will demonstrate its budget software program to the public Thursday night from 6 til 7:30 at Neighborhood House. School officials says the meeting is not meant to be a public forum to hear input on the proposed school closings.
I am in favor of school consolidation as a means of balancing the budget and making efficient use of resources. I just hope the Administration has calculated and included all the costs for the Board to consider. I am afraid transportation costs both real and unintended have not been adequately assessed.
If the District is going to increase busing they need to be better at it. We lived just about a mile from the primary school our children attended and our designated bus picked up at only 4 or so larger neighborhoods. There seemed to be a lot of bus driver turnover and thus a lot of mistakes made on the routes. They would miss streets and sometimes entire neighborhoods on a frequent basis.
I many times had to drop my children at school when the bus did not show. I am assuming that at Kingman and Tyng that not all parents and guardians have a car available to them and by the time they contact the school and a bus comes to pick them up, they have missed valuable class time.
Oh, good hearing from you Sharon. I thought I might.
“Why shouldn’t students and parents also be held partly responsible for a student’s education? ”
Because they have had no choice in it from the beginning. It is a coercive environment, organized in a way to kill the individual’s spirit from the first day.
Albert Einstein Wrote: It is little short of a miracle that modern methods of instruction have not already completely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry…. I believe that one could even deprive a healthy beast of prey of its voraciousness if one could force it with a whip to eat continuously whether it were hungry or not…
Kcdad: All I can say–in my opinion–is that NCLB is certainly not the answer to this country’s educational problems. However, I see no sign that our leaders are going to figure this out any time soon. By the time they see the light, the public education system will be completely undermined.
“Because they have had no choice in it from the beginning. It is a coercive environment, organized in a way to kill the individual’s spirit from the first day. ”
Again, kcdad has caused me to say, “Are you kidding me?” The beginning of a child’s education is when he/she takes his first breath. I would say the most important part of the child’s education is his/her first five years—before the child even steps into a school. If a child isn’t taught to listen, to respect adults, that learning is an important part of the process of getting them into adulthood, the teachers don’t have much of a chance. Our students need an extreme amount of one-on-one time and I would LOVE to give it to them.
There is a definite problem with class size in this district. When a teacher is given 25 students and the majority of them are in desperate need of a nurturing, caring environment, the teacher is left feeling helpless because no human has the ability to give to these kids what they need in the current classrooms. If the district truly cared about the students (as they say), the classroom sizes would be coming down, not going up. I have seen the evidence first hand with one of my students. He started out in a small 1st grade which had about 15 students. He was blossoming after a difficult kindergarden experience with over 20 kids in the class. All he needed was some personal attention. The district decided there were too few students in the first grade classes and they closed one and transferred one of the teachers out of our school and consolidated the classrooms. My little first grader was lost again in the sea of faces and still struggles today as a third grader. It breaks my heart knowing what he could accomplish if given the chance in a small, more personal class. Instead, he’s thrown into a room with a fantastic teacher who has 15+ kids like him, 3 or 4 waaaaay worse off, and a couple who actually do just fine regardless of the class dynamics.
We don’t need programs, workshops, or a new reading series to help us do our job. We all know how to love, nurture, and teach these children. The current trend in D150 of increasing class size doesn’t allow any of the outstanding educators currently there to reach their full potential. If the teachers are being held back from shining as bright as they can, how will it be possible for any of them to polish up the little stars in their classrooms and get the students’ lights to burst through?
Oh, I get it… those 5 year old hooligans are the problem with schools…. if we could only keep them out of schools, our AYP scores would go up.
Well duh. Those prepared for school don’t need it. Homeschooling proves that. So what is the point of having public education… Headstart… mandatory preschool…????
Think before you answer.
AYP is determined by testing done on students grade three and up. The five year olds in a school have no influence on AYP.
It’s been determined that trying to have an intelligent conversation with kcdad is impossible. He has absolutely no ability to see anything beyond his own opinion.
Kcdad: Please remember that a significant number of very young single parents are having children. These teen-agers who become parents are still immature themselves. I think we all know enough about child development to know that the ages from birth to age 5 are the most crucial to a child’s later academic success. We also know the importance of good nuitrition to the physical and mental health of children–and that many of these children grow up in very unhealthy environments. These teen-agers aren’t prepared to be parents–financially, emotionally–in any way. Some are lucky enough to have older adults in their lives (parents, grandparents, etc.), to help raise their children but not all do. In previous generations even uneducated parents were able to train their children to behave in social situations before they entered kindergarten–many of these teenage mothers do not provide that kind of nurturing. I’m not sure you understand what it’s like to teach (or to try to teach) in some of these primary classrooms where the majority of children enter school with behavioral problems. Many live in chaotic situations, and they bring that chaos to the classroom. Please don’t try to convince us that children are bored with school at that age because we’re not letting them learn what they want to learn or because the system is stifling, etc.
I do believe that the Einsteins in this world probably are bored in an average classroom. The system should be able to identify these extraordinary children and put them in a more suitable environment–and probably parents are the best ones to make that judgment call. The Einsteins aren’t the main problem of the average public inner city classroom. Einstein was probably thinking mostly of himself when he made the statement that you quote.
Applause to Sharon!
“I do believe that the Einsteins in this world probably are bored in an average classroom.”
And who are these Einsteins? According to Howard Gardner (look him up him, teachingrocks) everyone is a genius in one of the eight intelligences… why do you want to continue to concentrate on the two types of intelligence that our school system has for the past 40 – 50 years?
I haven’t met any kid, elementary high school or college, that is excited about going to school to learn and satisfy his/her curiosity about stuff. They are for the most part bored with it all… except with the prospect of GETTING OUT.
I will allow for the exception of a kid going to his first day school or to a new school or a new class… they often seem excited about the possibilities… they quickly fade.
Kcdad: You are unbelievable.
I have 13 year old daughter who needs very little motivation to get her home work done, even though band and sports keeps her there late most nights an very late some nights.
I have a 12 year old boy who SAYS he hates school but is up early, every morning, waiting for the bus because he can’t wait to get to band practice. (He just won’t admit it because that wouldn’t be cool)
My nine year old son loves to come home and tell us what they did in science or what he learned about the Egyptians or whatever it is they are studying. He takes extra tutoring for Math but is not angry about it.
My six year old tested higher than every first grader in the school in reading. The funny thing is, she is in Kindergarten. Her reading was self-taught (I kid you not!). She’s taught herself addition and is teaching herself multiplication out of her brothers math book.
We have our ups and downs, but “quickly fading”? Doesn’t seem like it.
Wow.
4 suburban kids who love school. What a surprise. What part of Dunlap or Metamora/Germantown Hills do you live in?
Band and sports
Band
Little kids achieving at as high or higher levels when older siblings are successful…
wow… what a surprise that you are not black and going to Tyng, Harrison and Roosevelt schools.
I hope CJ will forgive my use of the word, but you, sir, are an asshole.*
Morton is where we attend school and my two youngest children are African American and the older two are bi-racial.
All you have ever repeatedly shown is your ignorance.
*I do not take to name calling, but, in this case, I think the word fits. Other synonyms just don’t work quite as well in this instance. My apoligies if I have offend anyone (other than kcdad).
Applause to Anon E. Mouse!
Kcdad: Your experience with young people seems to be quite limited–do you teach only those who feel like outcasts? You do have children, don’t you? Do they hate school? I taught many happy young people who thoroughly enjoyed school, etc. The 8th grader in my life right now absolutely loves going to school–she can’t wait for weekends and vacations to end. The 6-year-old is more than OK with school but he would rather go fishing–he has time for both. No, I don’t believe all kids (or adults) are geniuses in at least one of the categories of intelligence. However, I don’t believe we have to be geniuses to have success and satisfaction in life. Most of us are average with maybe a few moments of genius (if any). We all liked certain aspects of school and disliked others–the parts we liked helped us tolerate the other parts; that’s life, isn’t it?
The truth of the matter is that I think many of the kids at the schools you mentioned (Tyng, Harrison, Roosevelt, etc.) may actually like school more than kids in more affluent schools do. For many of the kids, school is a haven away from more unpleasant aspects of their lives. For them structure is a good thing. School is a place where many of them find acceptance and validation from teachers and from other students.
Obviously, you put the wrong label on Anon E. Mouse’s children.
Anon E. Mouse, I wouldn’t get too worked up over kcdad. He seems to assume that everyone that is not at poverty level and living in the inner city is a wealthy elitist undeserving of any good fortune. It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job raising your children.
Of Gardner’s 8 intelligences, education in public school is focused mainly on logical-mathematical ability, linguistic ability, interpersonal ability, and intrapersonal ability. Why is that asks kcdad? Well, those are the abilities that a student needs to polish up on so as an adult he or she can earn a living, manage their life, and be a contributing citizen. I suppose public education could focus on preparing us all to be NBA basketball players or Olympic swimmers or artists that exhibit at trendy Soho galleries but statistically . . . . only a limited few would succeed. Public education is designed for the masses!
While Gardner’s theory is that these 8 intelligences are separate and distinct, IQ results testing these factors would say otherwise. Other abilities such as interpersonal and intrapersonal abilities also show a strong correlation to the other abilities previously mentioned. SO, empirical data does not support that a student that is below average in one ability has a high probability of being above average in one of the other related abilities. I am sure there are exceptions to this, but it seems misguided for public education to build its systems around the idea of multiple intelligences.
Frustrated: All of that is what needed to be said about Gardner’s theory–thanks for your explanation. Educationists pick up these theories and expect us to change the whole educational system based on untried, unproven theories–resulting in considerable confusion as to what and how to teach. Common sense would tell us that a normal person exhibits a combination of these “intelligences” with a balance of strengths and weaknesses, etc.
Yep! Common sense should also tell us that in the general population there is a distribution of “intelligences” and that means that some children are below average in their abilities. Thus their pace of learning will be different and so too their limits. It is political nonsense that transferring students from a failing school to one that is meeting standards is going to make a difference in the aggregate. I refuse to believe that the reason a District 150 school is not meeting standards is because all the teaching staff is substandard and the curriculum so off base as to cause students to fail.
Frustrated: inter and intra-personal intelligences are not focused on in schools at all, so that leaves linguistic and logical mathematical. All very left brain activities. THAT is what standardized testing measures. THAT is what AYP measures.
You can refuse to believe anything you want. It is much easier to think that the kids just don’t want to learn than the teachers/and system just don’t want to teach isn’t it? BLAME THE VICTIM.
Sharon: “Educationists pick up these theories and expect us to change the whole educational system based on untried, unproven theories–”
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? so you were teaching “common sense” to your students? What tried and proven theories did you base your understanding of “common sense” on?
Anon E Mouse… .7% of students in Morton Middle School are African America. That is a total of 3 students. .3% of the high school… another 3 students. A total of 23 or 24 African America students in all of Morton’s schools. And you have at least 4 of them… ?
98.6 % of Morton’s population is White or Asian… that leaves 1.4% Black and/or Latino… and you just happen to be part of that super-minority?
Even if that would happen to be true… your anecdotal experience is hardly even noteworthy, let alone remarkable.
kcdad – yup – it is true – isn’t that something?
Don’t put to great of measure when counting those statistics, though. When we registered out children, we left the RACE spot blank.
…and you are using YOUR anecdotes, why do yours count and mine don’t?
Kcdad: I agree that NCLB assumptions about intelligence and thus, the testing program, are too narrow and do not truly measure what happens in schools. Because schools districts are becoming “slaves” to NCLB, many of the good things that used to happen in our classrooms are eliminated so that schools can keep up the frustrating exercise of trying to meet standards that will never be met.
Also, if you look at the total school experience including extra-curricular activities, there are opportunities for children to experience success in other areas besides the linguistic and logical mathematical realms.
How can someone say that inter and intrapersonal intelligences are not learned in school? Students are learning from their first moments in school that interpersonal skills are needed to get along in the world. Working with others is a major theme starting in kindergarden. The teachers I work with understand and put to use the idea that students need to be intraspective and figure out what is motivating their decisions. It seems only someone who’s never stepped foot in a school building would say you don’t learn how to figure out why you do things and how to “play well with others” in school.
Teachers understand how standardized testing is a bad thing for schools. Teachers understand how biased the tests are and how it’s unfair to base decisions solely on the outcome of these tests. Unfortunately, teachers are not in charge of NCLB or the creation of ISAT and other tests. Placing the blame on the teachers for something they have nothing to do with and generally disagree with makes zero sense.
Come on people, don’t let kcdad get you worked up! His whole purpose in life is to thin a crowd.
Teach: Yes, but he does give some of us the excuse to expound ad nauseum on our favorite topics.
Sharon, “extra curricular activities” is not the curriculum, and is not available for students that are failing the curriculum… or should I say: that the curriculum is failing. If you look closely at your statement, it appears you are arguing that despite the curriculum of the regular schools, some students learn anyway, and perhaps everything should be EXTRA-curricular.
teachingrocks: so why are teachers allowing bureaucrats to dictate school policy? Who are the experts? Who has the guaranteed tenured protected jobs? Why aren’t they threatening to strike over these educational issues, instead of threatening to strike over pay and benefit issues? Do you suggest that teachers are cowards and only interested in their own welfare?
Anon e mouse: You are funny. Left “race” blank… in Morton? What a surprise. Let me guess… white adoptive parents? There were only 20 Black African Americans in Morton as of the year 2000… let’s add in the 4.3% population increase since then, we get 21, then we subtract about 23 or 24 black students in 2008… either there has been a tremendous influx of blacks to Morton (about as likely as Pekin) or there is something wrong with the statistics.
Kcdad: If Jeff and Hedy win the election tomorrow night, I believe you will see leadership that is willing to fight for issues other than pay and benefits for teachers. They have both already proved themselves in that arena–more to come if elected.
Let me bore you all with my comments to the board, etc., about the new Manual plan for next year:
Starting this August, Manual’s freshmen will be taking four 90-minute classes per day. At first glance, the lengthened time did not seem like a bad idea until I realized that students will be expected to complete a year’s work in one semester in four subjects: English, math (Algebra 1-2 or Geometry 1-2), science, and social studies.
Frankly, as an English teacher, I found that even the current schedule doesn’t allow enough time to cover a very packed curriculum using two textbooks (literature and grammar), especially true when the majority of students read below grade level. Now teachers will be expected to cover a year’s material in one semester. I sincerely doubt that math and science teachers would want to commit to teaching Algebra 1-2, Geometry 1-2, or Biology 1-2 in one semester. Ideally, this plan would require that students stay focused for 90 minutes per class (6 hours per day) and do double the amount of homework each night for four classes.
I admit that I have given up hope of Manual being a viable high school. Hopefully, some of you do not share my pessimism and will, therefore, be willing to consider my reasons for believing that the current curricular decisions should be reconsidered just in case there is any hope of success at Manual.
My first question: Were any current high school teachers of these four subjects part of the decision-making process and did they find this plan acceptable? I am always curious as to what goes on “behind closed doors”—as to what kinds of discussions take place and how these decisions are made.
Please consider the following:
• Do you realize that classes at the other District150 high schools are 50 to 55 minutes in length? Therefore, 90 minutes does not really double the time, yet the amount of material to cover will be doubled.
• Do you realize that students who take English 1-2 in the first semester will go without any English instruction for a semester and a summer (at least eight months)? Is that a wise plan for a school whose mandated primary goal is to prepare students for NCLB testing in their junior year? Do you believe students, already behind academically, will retain information over that long a period and pick up where they left off when they take English 3-4—hopefully, not as a one-semester course?
• Do you believe that the extra time per class will allow teachers to teach all the material for one year in one semester? I doubt that they can “cover” the material but certainly they cannot “teach” it. Again, please bear in mind that this intensity and acceleration will be all day in four separate courses.
• Do you believe that students should be required to do homework for any of these courses? If so, do you understand that covering a year’s course in one semester will mean that the amount of homework should be doubled—in all four classes per day (night)? My guess is that the extra 30 to 45 minutes of class time will be used to allow students to do what they should be doing at home—and they won’t be completing a year’s worth of material. Please remember that their counterparts at the other three (or the projected two) high schools will probably be covering more material because they have a full year to learn the material. Also, realize that there is no high school course that can be taught properly if students do not do homework.
• Do you believe that the prerequisite “Strategic Reading” or the “Transition to Advanced Math” courses will bring students up two grade levels (or more) in three months so that they will then be able to succeed in these accelerated (meaning speed, not necessarily enrichment) classes during the second semester? Have qualified remedial reading teachers been hired to teach these classes? Most English teachers are trained to teach English at grade level—they are not trained to teach remedial high school English. Pardon my cynicism, but I doubt that Johns Hopkins has come up with a miracle remediation program —if so, every inner city high school in America would be signing up.
• Remember a large percentage of students at Manual did not meet AYP in English and math. Therefore, the majority of students should be taking the prerequisite “remedial” courses before taking English 1-2 or Algebra 1-2. What if students fail English 1-2 or Algebra 1-2 first semester? Will they take the remedial courses second semester? When then will they retake English 1-2 of Algebra 1-2 for credit? My cynical answer, of course, is that teachers will be asked not to give failing grades if they wish to be considered “team players.” At least, I have heard that some of the current Manual faculty have heard such criticism because they are making their work too difficult for students, etc.
• What if Manual students must go to summer school to pass English1-2 or Algebra 1-2? Will they have to take the usual two three-hour courses or will special courses be offered for Manual students (a bit expensive for a district in financial trouble)?
• Will credit be given for taking the Strategic Reading or Transition to Math classes? This question is especially pertinent if a Manual freshman (who takes these remedial courses first semester) chooses to transfer to another school in 150 or out of the district after one semester). I would think that offering these year courses in one semester would present problems for transfers in and out of Manual.
• I believe that the projected increased class size in District 150 would present even more problems for teachers trying to cram a year’s course into one semester.
• What is the justification for requiring 90 minutes per day for a P.E. class or for even the Johns Hopkins Freshman Seminar when there is no time for electives such as orchestra (already eliminated) and French (to be eliminated) at Manual? I believe the whole concept of freshmen searching for career pathways (and any significant amount of time devoted to that subject matter) is a waste of precious educational time—especially in a school where so many students are struggling academically. Help these students master the basics and many career pathways will open up for them. The reverse is not true—exposing them to career pathways will not help them master the basics.
Via the grapevine, I just heard that Dr. Cynthia Fischer is in charge of the plans for the charter school on Moss Ave. Was that announced publicly and I missed it? Is this a consultant job paid for by District 150 or is someone else footing the bill for planning the charter school?
Thanks teach.
He can still jump though. heh heh.
kcdad: I’ll agree with you that teaching shouldn’t only be information providing, but also encouraging students to learn and develop a passion for things that they have an interest in. I could have put my previous post in better words. HOWEVER, making statements such as “your cancer analogy is stupid” and “What absolute hubris to think you have or know anything that someone else needs to become fully human” without even knowing me personally are the kinds of things that really lead me to believe that you just want to get under peoples skin. You’ve been asked to be in leadership inside your church as well? How Christian of you.
I’d like to believe that you truly care about education in our country and I just want you to answer this for me. Why shouldn’t students and parents also be held partly responsible for a student’s education? You have avoided this question and instead attempted attacking my character.
Erik: I hope that all concerned heard the announcement that I heard on WMBD this morning (probably on other stations as well) about the April 16 meeting. The announcement by PMA made it clear that this meeting is not a forum such as the one promised earlier by Hinton for those who wanted to express their views about school closings. I believe it was a board member who misunderstood the announcement about the April 16 meeting–made at the last board meeting. I think I recall that she stated she was glad to know the district was making good on the promise of a forum–wrong, the district isn’t scheduling any forums.
I think a little clarification on my part is needed. I’m glad those holding the meeting made the effort to clarify the purpose of the meeting–it wouldn’t be fair if the PMA, Erik, etc., would be confronted with community members who misunderstood the purpose of the meeting.
Teachingisphun is right. Parents need to have some responsibility for their children’s education. When a parent tells a student to do what he/she wants regardless of what his/her teacher says, there is a problem. When a student believes it is perfectly fine to backtalk a teacher and tell him/her no when asked to do something, there is a problem. The problem is there is a complete lack of respect for teachers and adults in general. This is something taught to the child before he/she ever enters the school building. We teachers can only do so much when students believe there is nothing to be learned in school. No matter how engaging, hands-on, stimulating, etc. our lessons are, if the students have zero interest in anything going on in the classroom, the teacher has little chance of making a breakthrough. That doesn’t mean we won’t keep trying, won’t keep caring, won’t keep working to touch the child’s heart and mind.
(gives teachingrocks two thumbs up) I’ve just been wanting to hear a response to why students and parents shouldn’t be held accountable for a students education. No personal attacks and no beating around the bush.
Not everything that you need from a well-rounded education is going to be puppy dog tails and rainbows. There are going to be subjects and/or topics that students are not going to like. It’s happened to all of us but I’m willing to say all of us posting on this board persevered through those not-as-fun subjects and did what we needed to. Let’s not make excuses for students, parents, or teachers.
I like to read everyone’s take on teacher pay, lengthening of the school day, union issues, teacher performance, etc. I think before we start restructuring the pay of teachers there needs to be a “meeting of the minds” as to what it is “we” should be aiming for in terms of student performance.
Continuing to insist that students can do better if teachers only try harder or use a more stimulating or cutting edge approach is fantasy. I have not read any definitive research to support the notion that an individual’s academic capacity – i.e. their IQ can be permanently raised exclusively through education. Then you add conduct discussed by teachers posts on this blog and things get really complicated.
There are a disproportionate number of poor children that are below average in their ability to learn, whether due to genes or poverty or a combination of both. Maybe innovative instruction and smaller class size enable teachers to move children from far below average to somewhat less below average, but educational reform will likely not move the bottom half to meet or exceed “grade level” standards as they currently exist in most States. I am concerned that the persistent pressure to meet NCLB has already eroded the educational “standards” of many schools as they feverishly scramble to attain impossible goals.
I think to make education more effective there must be more comprehensive testing of students’ abilities and thereafter the establishment of learning goals that are realistic for the student/teacher to achieve. Only then, does it seem reasonable to evaluate teacher performance in relation to improvement of student academic performance or to condemn a school district and its leaders and brand them incompetent.
Frustrated: Again, we are on the same page. Yes, I believe we have to find a way to help people face reality–that we all can’t be rocket scientists. I know that for whatever reason–nature or nurture–there are fields of study and careers for which I simply have no aptitude. I cringe every time I hear “Every child can learn” and “You can be anything you want to be.” I always want to ask every child can learn “what?” At the same time, I know that there are times when teachers have limited children’s horizons by discouraging them (sometimes without realizing that they are doing so). A good teacher indeed will try to take a child as far as he/she can go, etc. I know that historically many black adults were made to believe (as children) that they could not excel–that is part of our history for which we are paying dearly now. I hope that it is just part of our “history,” not our present.
Nevertheless, what you say is true. The assumption of NCLB is that there is “equality” in the ability of all children to learn. Common sense (and an understanding of our own limitations) should tell us that it just isn’t so. I hope those who support the NCLB efforts will come to realize how much these test scores and their unrealistic expectations are actually limiting the horizons of many children whose self-worth is going to be determined by whether or not they pass or fail this test. Certainly NCLB expectations could well give teachers inferiority complexes–but has anyone really considered what these unrealistic goals do to children?
Frustrated: You asked me once if I never sleep. Well, I always have to wait until you check in at night.
Clarification: It was perhaps District 150 officials who clarified the purpose of the April 16 meeting–per this notice on WMBD website:
School closings will be on the agenda for the Peoria District 150 school board April 20th. Superintendent Ken Hinton is recommending closing Kingman and Tyng Primary schools the end of this school year – along with Irving Primary, one Middle school and one high school the end of next school year. PMA Financial Network, hired to evaluate the district’s budget and try to make it understandable, claims that scenario will result in a $2-million surplus in the district’s Education Fund the end of next school year and an additional $3-million surplus in 2011. PMA will demonstrate its budget software program to the public Thursday night from 6 til 7:30 at Neighborhood House. School officials says the meeting is not meant to be a public forum to hear input on the proposed school closings.
I am in favor of school consolidation as a means of balancing the budget and making efficient use of resources. I just hope the Administration has calculated and included all the costs for the Board to consider. I am afraid transportation costs both real and unintended have not been adequately assessed.
If the District is going to increase busing they need to be better at it. We lived just about a mile from the primary school our children attended and our designated bus picked up at only 4 or so larger neighborhoods. There seemed to be a lot of bus driver turnover and thus a lot of mistakes made on the routes. They would miss streets and sometimes entire neighborhoods on a frequent basis.
I many times had to drop my children at school when the bus did not show. I am assuming that at Kingman and Tyng that not all parents and guardians have a car available to them and by the time they contact the school and a bus comes to pick them up, they have missed valuable class time.
Oh, good hearing from you Sharon. I thought I might.
“Why shouldn’t students and parents also be held partly responsible for a student’s education? ”
Because they have had no choice in it from the beginning. It is a coercive environment, organized in a way to kill the individual’s spirit from the first day.
Albert Einstein Wrote: It is little short of a miracle that modern methods of instruction have not already completely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry…. I believe that one could even deprive a healthy beast of prey of its voraciousness if one could force it with a whip to eat continuously whether it were hungry or not…
Kcdad: All I can say–in my opinion–is that NCLB is certainly not the answer to this country’s educational problems. However, I see no sign that our leaders are going to figure this out any time soon. By the time they see the light, the public education system will be completely undermined.
“Because they have had no choice in it from the beginning. It is a coercive environment, organized in a way to kill the individual’s spirit from the first day. ”
Again, kcdad has caused me to say, “Are you kidding me?” The beginning of a child’s education is when he/she takes his first breath. I would say the most important part of the child’s education is his/her first five years—before the child even steps into a school. If a child isn’t taught to listen, to respect adults, that learning is an important part of the process of getting them into adulthood, the teachers don’t have much of a chance. Our students need an extreme amount of one-on-one time and I would LOVE to give it to them.
There is a definite problem with class size in this district. When a teacher is given 25 students and the majority of them are in desperate need of a nurturing, caring environment, the teacher is left feeling helpless because no human has the ability to give to these kids what they need in the current classrooms. If the district truly cared about the students (as they say), the classroom sizes would be coming down, not going up. I have seen the evidence first hand with one of my students. He started out in a small 1st grade which had about 15 students. He was blossoming after a difficult kindergarden experience with over 20 kids in the class. All he needed was some personal attention. The district decided there were too few students in the first grade classes and they closed one and transferred one of the teachers out of our school and consolidated the classrooms. My little first grader was lost again in the sea of faces and still struggles today as a third grader. It breaks my heart knowing what he could accomplish if given the chance in a small, more personal class. Instead, he’s thrown into a room with a fantastic teacher who has 15+ kids like him, 3 or 4 waaaaay worse off, and a couple who actually do just fine regardless of the class dynamics.
We don’t need programs, workshops, or a new reading series to help us do our job. We all know how to love, nurture, and teach these children. The current trend in D150 of increasing class size doesn’t allow any of the outstanding educators currently there to reach their full potential. If the teachers are being held back from shining as bright as they can, how will it be possible for any of them to polish up the little stars in their classrooms and get the students’ lights to burst through?
Oh, I get it… those 5 year old hooligans are the problem with schools…. if we could only keep them out of schools, our AYP scores would go up.
Well duh. Those prepared for school don’t need it. Homeschooling proves that. So what is the point of having public education… Headstart… mandatory preschool…????
Think before you answer.
AYP is determined by testing done on students grade three and up. The five year olds in a school have no influence on AYP.
It’s been determined that trying to have an intelligent conversation with kcdad is impossible. He has absolutely no ability to see anything beyond his own opinion.
Kcdad: Please remember that a significant number of very young single parents are having children. These teen-agers who become parents are still immature themselves. I think we all know enough about child development to know that the ages from birth to age 5 are the most crucial to a child’s later academic success. We also know the importance of good nuitrition to the physical and mental health of children–and that many of these children grow up in very unhealthy environments. These teen-agers aren’t prepared to be parents–financially, emotionally–in any way. Some are lucky enough to have older adults in their lives (parents, grandparents, etc.), to help raise their children but not all do. In previous generations even uneducated parents were able to train their children to behave in social situations before they entered kindergarten–many of these teenage mothers do not provide that kind of nurturing. I’m not sure you understand what it’s like to teach (or to try to teach) in some of these primary classrooms where the majority of children enter school with behavioral problems. Many live in chaotic situations, and they bring that chaos to the classroom. Please don’t try to convince us that children are bored with school at that age because we’re not letting them learn what they want to learn or because the system is stifling, etc.
I do believe that the Einsteins in this world probably are bored in an average classroom. The system should be able to identify these extraordinary children and put them in a more suitable environment–and probably parents are the best ones to make that judgment call. The Einsteins aren’t the main problem of the average public inner city classroom. Einstein was probably thinking mostly of himself when he made the statement that you quote.
Applause to Sharon!
“I do believe that the Einsteins in this world probably are bored in an average classroom.”
And who are these Einsteins? According to Howard Gardner (look him up him, teachingrocks) everyone is a genius in one of the eight intelligences… why do you want to continue to concentrate on the two types of intelligence that our school system has for the past 40 – 50 years?
I haven’t met any kid, elementary high school or college, that is excited about going to school to learn and satisfy his/her curiosity about stuff. They are for the most part bored with it all… except with the prospect of GETTING OUT.
I will allow for the exception of a kid going to his first day school or to a new school or a new class… they often seem excited about the possibilities… they quickly fade.
Kcdad: You are unbelievable.
I have 13 year old daughter who needs very little motivation to get her home work done, even though band and sports keeps her there late most nights an very late some nights.
I have a 12 year old boy who SAYS he hates school but is up early, every morning, waiting for the bus because he can’t wait to get to band practice. (He just won’t admit it because that wouldn’t be cool)
My nine year old son loves to come home and tell us what they did in science or what he learned about the Egyptians or whatever it is they are studying. He takes extra tutoring for Math but is not angry about it.
My six year old tested higher than every first grader in the school in reading. The funny thing is, she is in Kindergarten. Her reading was self-taught (I kid you not!). She’s taught herself addition and is teaching herself multiplication out of her brothers math book.
We have our ups and downs, but “quickly fading”? Doesn’t seem like it.
Wow.
4 suburban kids who love school. What a surprise. What part of Dunlap or Metamora/Germantown Hills do you live in?
Band and sports
Band
Little kids achieving at as high or higher levels when older siblings are successful…
wow… what a surprise that you are not black and going to Tyng, Harrison and Roosevelt schools.
I hope CJ will forgive my use of the word, but you, sir, are an asshole.*
Morton is where we attend school and my two youngest children are African American and the older two are bi-racial.
All you have ever repeatedly shown is your ignorance.
*I do not take to name calling, but, in this case, I think the word fits. Other synonyms just don’t work quite as well in this instance. My apoligies if I have offend anyone (other than kcdad).
Applause to Anon E. Mouse!
Kcdad: Your experience with young people seems to be quite limited–do you teach only those who feel like outcasts? You do have children, don’t you? Do they hate school? I taught many happy young people who thoroughly enjoyed school, etc. The 8th grader in my life right now absolutely loves going to school–she can’t wait for weekends and vacations to end. The 6-year-old is more than OK with school but he would rather go fishing–he has time for both. No, I don’t believe all kids (or adults) are geniuses in at least one of the categories of intelligence. However, I don’t believe we have to be geniuses to have success and satisfaction in life. Most of us are average with maybe a few moments of genius (if any). We all liked certain aspects of school and disliked others–the parts we liked helped us tolerate the other parts; that’s life, isn’t it?
The truth of the matter is that I think many of the kids at the schools you mentioned (Tyng, Harrison, Roosevelt, etc.) may actually like school more than kids in more affluent schools do. For many of the kids, school is a haven away from more unpleasant aspects of their lives. For them structure is a good thing. School is a place where many of them find acceptance and validation from teachers and from other students.
Obviously, you put the wrong label on Anon E. Mouse’s children.
Anon E. Mouse, I wouldn’t get too worked up over kcdad. He seems to assume that everyone that is not at poverty level and living in the inner city is a wealthy elitist undeserving of any good fortune. It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job raising your children.
Of Gardner’s 8 intelligences, education in public school is focused mainly on logical-mathematical ability, linguistic ability, interpersonal ability, and intrapersonal ability. Why is that asks kcdad? Well, those are the abilities that a student needs to polish up on so as an adult he or she can earn a living, manage their life, and be a contributing citizen. I suppose public education could focus on preparing us all to be NBA basketball players or Olympic swimmers or artists that exhibit at trendy Soho galleries but statistically . . . . only a limited few would succeed. Public education is designed for the masses!
While Gardner’s theory is that these 8 intelligences are separate and distinct, IQ results testing these factors would say otherwise. Other abilities such as interpersonal and intrapersonal abilities also show a strong correlation to the other abilities previously mentioned. SO, empirical data does not support that a student that is below average in one ability has a high probability of being above average in one of the other related abilities. I am sure there are exceptions to this, but it seems misguided for public education to build its systems around the idea of multiple intelligences.
Frustrated: All of that is what needed to be said about Gardner’s theory–thanks for your explanation. Educationists pick up these theories and expect us to change the whole educational system based on untried, unproven theories–resulting in considerable confusion as to what and how to teach. Common sense would tell us that a normal person exhibits a combination of these “intelligences” with a balance of strengths and weaknesses, etc.
Yep! Common sense should also tell us that in the general population there is a distribution of “intelligences” and that means that some children are below average in their abilities. Thus their pace of learning will be different and so too their limits. It is political nonsense that transferring students from a failing school to one that is meeting standards is going to make a difference in the aggregate. I refuse to believe that the reason a District 150 school is not meeting standards is because all the teaching staff is substandard and the curriculum so off base as to cause students to fail.
Frustrated: inter and intra-personal intelligences are not focused on in schools at all, so that leaves linguistic and logical mathematical. All very left brain activities. THAT is what standardized testing measures. THAT is what AYP measures.
You can refuse to believe anything you want. It is much easier to think that the kids just don’t want to learn than the teachers/and system just don’t want to teach isn’t it? BLAME THE VICTIM.
Sharon: “Educationists pick up these theories and expect us to change the whole educational system based on untried, unproven theories–”
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? so you were teaching “common sense” to your students? What tried and proven theories did you base your understanding of “common sense” on?
Anon E Mouse… .7% of students in Morton Middle School are African America. That is a total of 3 students. .3% of the high school… another 3 students. A total of 23 or 24 African America students in all of Morton’s schools. And you have at least 4 of them… ?
98.6 % of Morton’s population is White or Asian… that leaves 1.4% Black and/or Latino… and you just happen to be part of that super-minority?
Even if that would happen to be true… your anecdotal experience is hardly even noteworthy, let alone remarkable.
kcdad – yup – it is true – isn’t that something?
Don’t put to great of measure when counting those statistics, though. When we registered out children, we left the RACE spot blank.
…and you are using YOUR anecdotes, why do yours count and mine don’t?
Kcdad: I agree that NCLB assumptions about intelligence and thus, the testing program, are too narrow and do not truly measure what happens in schools. Because schools districts are becoming “slaves” to NCLB, many of the good things that used to happen in our classrooms are eliminated so that schools can keep up the frustrating exercise of trying to meet standards that will never be met.
Also, if you look at the total school experience including extra-curricular activities, there are opportunities for children to experience success in other areas besides the linguistic and logical mathematical realms.
How can someone say that inter and intrapersonal intelligences are not learned in school? Students are learning from their first moments in school that interpersonal skills are needed to get along in the world. Working with others is a major theme starting in kindergarden. The teachers I work with understand and put to use the idea that students need to be intraspective and figure out what is motivating their decisions. It seems only someone who’s never stepped foot in a school building would say you don’t learn how to figure out why you do things and how to “play well with others” in school.
Teachers understand how standardized testing is a bad thing for schools. Teachers understand how biased the tests are and how it’s unfair to base decisions solely on the outcome of these tests. Unfortunately, teachers are not in charge of NCLB or the creation of ISAT and other tests. Placing the blame on the teachers for something they have nothing to do with and generally disagree with makes zero sense.
Come on people, don’t let kcdad get you worked up! His whole purpose in life is to thin a crowd.
Teach: Yes, but he does give some of us the excuse to expound ad nauseum on our favorite topics.
Sharon, “extra curricular activities” is not the curriculum, and is not available for students that are failing the curriculum… or should I say: that the curriculum is failing. If you look closely at your statement, it appears you are arguing that despite the curriculum of the regular schools, some students learn anyway, and perhaps everything should be EXTRA-curricular.
teachingrocks: so why are teachers allowing bureaucrats to dictate school policy? Who are the experts? Who has the guaranteed tenured protected jobs? Why aren’t they threatening to strike over these educational issues, instead of threatening to strike over pay and benefit issues? Do you suggest that teachers are cowards and only interested in their own welfare?
Anon e mouse: You are funny. Left “race” blank… in Morton? What a surprise. Let me guess… white adoptive parents? There were only 20 Black African Americans in Morton as of the year 2000… let’s add in the 4.3% population increase since then, we get 21, then we subtract about 23 or 24 black students in 2008… either there has been a tremendous influx of blacks to Morton (about as likely as Pekin) or there is something wrong with the statistics.
Kcdad: If Jeff and Hedy win the election tomorrow night, I believe you will see leadership that is willing to fight for issues other than pay and benefits for teachers. They have both already proved themselves in that arena–more to come if elected.
Let me bore you all with my comments to the board, etc., about the new Manual plan for next year:
Starting this August, Manual’s freshmen will be taking four 90-minute classes per day. At first glance, the lengthened time did not seem like a bad idea until I realized that students will be expected to complete a year’s work in one semester in four subjects: English, math (Algebra 1-2 or Geometry 1-2), science, and social studies.
Frankly, as an English teacher, I found that even the current schedule doesn’t allow enough time to cover a very packed curriculum using two textbooks (literature and grammar), especially true when the majority of students read below grade level. Now teachers will be expected to cover a year’s material in one semester. I sincerely doubt that math and science teachers would want to commit to teaching Algebra 1-2, Geometry 1-2, or Biology 1-2 in one semester. Ideally, this plan would require that students stay focused for 90 minutes per class (6 hours per day) and do double the amount of homework each night for four classes.
I admit that I have given up hope of Manual being a viable high school. Hopefully, some of you do not share my pessimism and will, therefore, be willing to consider my reasons for believing that the current curricular decisions should be reconsidered just in case there is any hope of success at Manual.
My first question: Were any current high school teachers of these four subjects part of the decision-making process and did they find this plan acceptable? I am always curious as to what goes on “behind closed doors”—as to what kinds of discussions take place and how these decisions are made.
Please consider the following:
• Do you realize that classes at the other District150 high schools are 50 to 55 minutes in length? Therefore, 90 minutes does not really double the time, yet the amount of material to cover will be doubled.
• Do you realize that students who take English 1-2 in the first semester will go without any English instruction for a semester and a summer (at least eight months)? Is that a wise plan for a school whose mandated primary goal is to prepare students for NCLB testing in their junior year? Do you believe students, already behind academically, will retain information over that long a period and pick up where they left off when they take English 3-4—hopefully, not as a one-semester course?
• Do you believe that the extra time per class will allow teachers to teach all the material for one year in one semester? I doubt that they can “cover” the material but certainly they cannot “teach” it. Again, please bear in mind that this intensity and acceleration will be all day in four separate courses.
• Do you believe that students should be required to do homework for any of these courses? If so, do you understand that covering a year’s course in one semester will mean that the amount of homework should be doubled—in all four classes per day (night)? My guess is that the extra 30 to 45 minutes of class time will be used to allow students to do what they should be doing at home—and they won’t be completing a year’s worth of material. Please remember that their counterparts at the other three (or the projected two) high schools will probably be covering more material because they have a full year to learn the material. Also, realize that there is no high school course that can be taught properly if students do not do homework.
• Do you believe that the prerequisite “Strategic Reading” or the “Transition to Advanced Math” courses will bring students up two grade levels (or more) in three months so that they will then be able to succeed in these accelerated (meaning speed, not necessarily enrichment) classes during the second semester? Have qualified remedial reading teachers been hired to teach these classes? Most English teachers are trained to teach English at grade level—they are not trained to teach remedial high school English. Pardon my cynicism, but I doubt that Johns Hopkins has come up with a miracle remediation program —if so, every inner city high school in America would be signing up.
• Remember a large percentage of students at Manual did not meet AYP in English and math. Therefore, the majority of students should be taking the prerequisite “remedial” courses before taking English 1-2 or Algebra 1-2. What if students fail English 1-2 or Algebra 1-2 first semester? Will they take the remedial courses second semester? When then will they retake English 1-2 of Algebra 1-2 for credit? My cynical answer, of course, is that teachers will be asked not to give failing grades if they wish to be considered “team players.” At least, I have heard that some of the current Manual faculty have heard such criticism because they are making their work too difficult for students, etc.
• What if Manual students must go to summer school to pass English1-2 or Algebra 1-2? Will they have to take the usual two three-hour courses or will special courses be offered for Manual students (a bit expensive for a district in financial trouble)?
• Will credit be given for taking the Strategic Reading or Transition to Math classes? This question is especially pertinent if a Manual freshman (who takes these remedial courses first semester) chooses to transfer to another school in 150 or out of the district after one semester). I would think that offering these year courses in one semester would present problems for transfers in and out of Manual.
• I believe that the projected increased class size in District 150 would present even more problems for teachers trying to cram a year’s course into one semester.
• What is the justification for requiring 90 minutes per day for a P.E. class or for even the Johns Hopkins Freshman Seminar when there is no time for electives such as orchestra (already eliminated) and French (to be eliminated) at Manual? I believe the whole concept of freshmen searching for career pathways (and any significant amount of time devoted to that subject matter) is a waste of precious educational time—especially in a school where so many students are struggling academically. Help these students master the basics and many career pathways will open up for them. The reverse is not true—exposing them to career pathways will not help them master the basics.
Via the grapevine, I just heard that Dr. Cynthia Fischer is in charge of the plans for the charter school on Moss Ave. Was that announced publicly and I missed it? Is this a consultant job paid for by District 150 or is someone else footing the bill for planning the charter school?