The Journal Star reports (no link — it’s a “First in Print” article) that a new passenger rail advisory group has been formed:
A 21-member committee formed of local government officials and appointees from the Tri-County Regional Planning Commission, it set priorities in its first couple of meetings. In the long run, the goal would be passenger service that links downstate’s three Amtrak lines with service from Galesburg to Champaign. That starts with service from East Peoria to Normal.
The article is by columnist Terry Bibo, and unfortunately she doesn’t list any members of the committee other than Tazewell County board member Dean Grimm (who’s the chairman) and Tri-County Regional Planning director Terry Kohlbuss. It might be helpful to know who is making these decisions.
You might think from reading the quote above that the committee only wants to see rail service between East Peoria and Normal, but not so fast:
[T]ransportation officials are applying for a $160,000 grant for alternatives analysis. The grant would look at possibilities from carpooling to buses to rail service.
Kohlbuss is quoted later as saying he sees it as “a ramp-up process” to increase the number of rail users and build up demand. Grimm recognized the need for public support, saying, “I would hope people in Peoria — in central Illinois — value passenger train transportation. That’s the only way this is going to fly.” State Sen. Dave Koehler and Peoria Mayor Jim Ardis are reportedly already on board with the committee’s goals. I heard that Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood was on the radio this morning singing the praises of this plan as well. (LaHood, you may recall, used to be against rail service, saying people should just drive to Bloomington.)
My take: This is terribly disappointing in so many ways, I hardly know where to start.
On the positive side, I want to say that I’m glad our local leaders are focusing more attention on passenger rail. We need our local leaders’ buy-in so that the money can be appropriated and the project can happen. That there’s a committee formed is a good start in principle, although I would like to know who exactly is on it.
I knew a committee was being formed and expressed interest in being on it myself, but obviously the decision was made not to include me. That’s a little disappointing, given that I’ve started a grassroots organization called the Peoria Passenger Rail Coalition and have talked to the Mayor and Kohlbuss about my interest in working with them. But hey, they have their reasons (probably very good ones) and it’s their right to choose who they want and don’t want on their committee. I have no complaint about that.
I do have a complaint about their plans, however.
First of all, the timing is unfortunate. There is still an Amtrak-IDOT study pending that’s looking at the feasibility of establishing Peoria-Chicago passenger rail service. We really should see the results of that study before we assume it can’t be done and start looking at least-desired options. I fear this new development could influence the current study — perhaps even lead to its abandonment — if IDOT and Amtrak feel the political will is gone for a Peoria-Chicago connection.
Secondly, the plan itself is flawed. There is no demand of which I’m aware for rail access to Bloomington. If you’re going to Bloomington, you’re going to need a car in order to get around their sprawling city (likewise for anyone from Bloomington who would be traveling to Peoria). If you’re coming from Chicago, it’s reasonable to take the train and rent a car or take the bus in Bloomington. But it would be absurd to take the train from Peoria to Bloomington and then rent a car or take the bus. We’re so close to Bloomington that people traveling there are going to drive, period. It’s simply not a viable rail destination from Peoria.
Equally implausible is that sufficient numbers of people will want to take a train to Bloomington simply to connect with a Chicago- or St. Louis-bound train. To be sure, there would be some ridership for such a service, but not enough to sustain it. It would add time and cost that could be saved by driving to Bloomington and parking for free at their Amtrak station. How many Peoria residents already drive to Bloomington to take advantage of cheaper airfares and free parking at the Central Illinois Regional Airport? The same thing would likely occur here.
At least there’s a reason to go to Bloomington — to catch another train. Looking at it the other way, why would anyone want to travel from Bloomington to Peoria? Or East Peoria, for that matter. I mean, is there any chain restaurant or big box store in East Peoria that Bloomington doesn’t already have? What’s the attraction, exactly?
The most dangerous thing about this plan, however, is Grimm’s final quote — remember he said, “I would hope people in Peoria — in central Illinois — value passenger train transportation.” What this means is, if the Peoria-Bloomington rail link is a failure (as I believe it would be), then our local officials are going to believe that means people in Peoria and central Illinois don’t value train transportation. And that would be a travesty.
Central Illinois does value train travel, and will use train transportation — but only if it’s a viable route that goes where we want to go. We don’t want to go to Bloomington. We want to go to Chicago. Establish Peoria to Chicago passenger rail service and you will see success.
Peoria to Chicago rail! Right now!
I do agree with you that IF the policy makers are forced to choose only one route (East-West or North-South), they would wisely choose the Peoria-Chicago route. Build the Peoria terminal on the South side. Design it in Victorian or Mission style architecture. We don’t need yet another downtown building that looks like another ugly suburban shopping mall. Locate the terminal within easy walking distance of Bradley and the proposed Warehouse District. Make the trains and the terminal safe, clean, and affordable, with trains departing/arriving on-time. Peoria urban planners, are you listening?
Are you aware that State Farm runs a commuter shuttle for its employees who live as far away as Dunlap? If an East-West passenger train route is built, then, for example, the State Farm shuttle would only have to go to the local Bloomington train station to pick up the Peoria area employees. Regarding Bloomington/Normal, it would be critical to get the support of the major insurance companies in that town. Getting an endorsement from ISU and IL Wesleyan wouldn’t hurt, either.
Regarding ridership, it all depends on the type of commuters you want. Would most people take the train for business or for tourism. My guess is that most traffic between Normal to Chicago is based on central IL people heading to Chicago to have fun. The argument about Bloomington/Normal having too much sprawl to make Peoria-Bloomington/Normal passenger rail effective is bunk. Even in Chicago, most people still have to take a cab or bus to get around the city upon leaving the train station.
I sometimes wonder if strong arguments were once made against the construction of the Interstate Highway system due to concerns of high cost and low traffic counts. Who could have predicted in the early 1950s that the Interstates would now be choked with traffic? Every interstate/intrastate rail system in every country on the planet is subsidized by government. But then again, so are the roads (tollways excluded).
Why would I want to go to Bloomington-Normal to get to Chicago? I don’t own a car. Even if Peoria Charter Coach connected directly to the near-Normal train station, I would be hesitant to use the service. What if my train’s late? Would I be stranded near-Normal? I rode the Rocket for several decades. I don’t want second best…
“I mean, is there any chain restaurant or big box store in East Peoria that Bloomington doesn’t already have? What’s the attraction, exactly?”
The boat, that’s what. I can just see the B/N nursing homes empty and the B/N train station full as they’re all eager to hit the penny slots 😉
I tried to get to Florida earlier this year. Had to go to Chicago and then out to Philli or Washington DC….. Thank you, Mr. LaHood!
CJ,
I hope you have the attention of the new advisory group, whoever they are besides the one that is named. It should be obvious that Chicago is the one viable rail passenger market to and from Peoria. Requiring riders to change trains at Bloomington-Normal will kill the service from the start.
Jim says, “The argument about Bloomington/Normal having too much sprawl to make Peoria-Bloomington/Normal passenger rail effective is bunk. Even in Chicago, most people still have to take a cab or bus to get around the city upon leaving the train station.”
In Chicago, cabs are waiting for you as soon as you walk out the door, buses come every 10 minutes, and the “L” is convenient and frequent. Plus, many things are within easy walking distance. In Peoria, buses come once an hour most of the day (but every half-hour during peak times), you have to call a cab if you want one, and there is no other public transit. Furthermore, Chicago is three hours away, whereas Bloomington is only 45 minutes away. Traffic is a nightmare in Chicago and parking is expensive; traffic is comparatively light in Bloomington and most parking is free. I think the differences are substantial. In short, there are time and cost advantages to taking the train to Chicago; there are time and cost disadvantages to taking the train to Bloomington.
Look, the ugly truth is that except for Caterpillar, Peoria is irrelevant. And apparently, the State doesn’t care much about Cat, either.
Bloomington/Normal, Rockford, The Quad Cities, even Decatur and Champaign are more relevant to the State than Peoria is.
“Bloomington/Normal, Rockford, The Quad Cities, even Decatur and Champaign are more relevant to the State than Peoria is.”
Oh yea?!? Just wait until the museum opens for business! I am just relieved to know our city and county officials have their priorities in order!
C.J. – Thanks for the clarification.
In a perfect world, BOTH rail lines would be built: Chicago to Peoria (without having to travel through Bloomington/Normal); and Peoria to Bloomington.
Why would anyone want to take a train from Peoria to Bloomington? Provided that the rail line is extended further east, I would love to take a train from Peoria to Champaign. Champaign has culture that Bloomington/Normal will never, ever have. Anyone who has spent time in both areas will know what I mean. Regarding distance, Peoria to Champaign is a 100 mile drive, one way.
I could envision a commuter service between Peoria/Bloomington. Think of all the Peoria people who commute to State Farm, etc. on a daily basis?
A decent service could do really well. Why does everyone have to think in terms of travel to Chicago or St. Louis?
An I-74 commuter line could probably be viable in and of itself provided the trains were frequent and speedy enough. It is a poor solution for access to Chicago but could be useful nonetheless.
If you could get from Peoria to B-N in 15 minutes, I could see myself shopping high schools there. 30 minutes to champaign? … I could get back to work on a Masters.
Jim,
Rail lines won’t be BUILT. Existing lines will have to be used. There are those that could be used for Peoria-Chicago rail passenger service, one via Bloomington (no need to change trains, just stop there enroute).
Charlie,
Caterpillar isn’t the only thing that makes Peoria relevant. Think agriculture and a navigable waterway that is open year-round. There are many others…
CJ,
I think you missed a Chicago vs. Bloomington comparison. Population. CH-Town has 3 million residents (and another 7 million in the suburbs) and Bloomington has just 75,000. That’s probably the biggest factor in whether there is a market for rail passenger service.
The waterway is a river, and farm land is outside the city limits… I stand by my statement. The City of Peoria, which used to be important, is quickly becoming irrelevant… if it isn’t already. ( Pesonally, I think it has a lot to do with LaHood and Schock… or the absence of Michael and Dirksen)
David P. Jordan wrote: “Rail lines won’t be BUILT. Existing lines will have to be used.”
Roads are built, expanded, and rebuilt all the time. No one cares. But constructing a new rail line – especially one that uses clean energy!?!!?? Gasp!
We can’t have that, now can we?!?!? I don’t get it.
“Champaign has culture that Bloomington/Normal will never, ever have.”
Jim is getting all into that ‘culture’ ‘thang’ again…….
Stand by for ‘culture alert!’
Jim wrote: Roads are built, expanded, and rebuilt all the time. No one cares. But constructing a new rail line – especially one that uses clean energy!?!!?? Gasp!
We can’t have that, now can we?!?!? I don’t get it.
You missed my point. Highways are built for common use – private autos, buses, motor carriers, etc. but rail lines are limited to a specific form of transportation – trains. There’s no need for a new rail freight line between Chicago and Peoria, so it would have to be for dedicated passenger service. But you don’t spend $500 million to $1 billion building a brand new, 150+ mile railroad for a market that may not support more than 6-8 trains per day. Dedicated HSR lines may be built between large metro areas, as with the proposed California project (see http://cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/), which makes sense.
The old Prairie Marksman route from 1980-81 would be a good one if an East Peoria terminus is favored. Track upgrades on the TP&W portion of the route will be substantial, but at least you avoid the huge and unnecessary cost of building an entirely new line.
David, would you be kind enough to give a lot more detail about the Prairie Marksman route? I know we have talked about it and discussed it with others but some on this blog have never heard of it or how a depot could be built in East Peoria and what the advantages would be as we have previously discussed. I think they would be interested in that scenario.
“Highways are built for common use – private autos, buses, motor carriers, etc. but rail lines are limited to a specific form of transportation – trains. ”
Are you serious… cars and buses are more different than passenger and freight trains?
THAT’S your argument?
Sharon,
Yes, it’s a good idea to detail the Prairie Marksman route.
Beginning in 1977, Amtrak looked at different routes for [East] Peoria-Chicago rail passenger service. Two years later, the carrier made its selection: Chicago to Chenoa, already used by Amtrak, and then west on the TP&W to East Peoria. This route paralleled I-55 and Rt. 24. The service existed from August 1980 until October 1981.
The Chicago-Chenoa segment was on Illinois Central Gulf’s Chicago-E. St. Louis line through Joliet, Bloomington and Springfield. Today, Canadian National owns Chicago-Joliet and the rest, Union Pacific. TP&W is still around.
As for a depot site, East Peoria makes a lot of sense. Just east of N. Main Street in East Peoria, TP&W’s ownership line ends and the track westward is controlled by the Tazewell & Peoria RR. But the best location for a depot would on that railroad, across the track from the old ShopKo building and across W. Washington St. from the police/fire station. It could be integrated with East Peoria 2010. The location would be perhaps two miles from downtown Peoria. This location would be far superior to that used by the Prairie Marksman, which was located on Keayes Avenue just west of the TP&W yard, and was hardly bigger than a toll both.
Why can’t passenger trains cross the river and reach downtown Peoria? They can, if you want to add 30-45 minutes to the journey. The Tazewell & Peoria RR bridge is about two miles south of downtown, and there is a 10mph speed limit on the route needed to get from East Peoria to downtown Peoria due to it being within “yard limits.” The last time any passenger trains used this route coming into downtown Peoria via East Peoria was on July 1, 1951 when the Nickel Plate (now Norfolk Southern) dropped its little steam-powered train from Cheneyville, Illinois (cut back incrementally from Lima, Ohio during the prior year).
“Champaign has culture that Bloomington/Normal will never, ever have.”
New Voice wrote: Jim is getting all into that ‘culture’ ‘thang’ again…….
Stand by for ‘culture alert!’
New Voice: You really don’t get it, do you. Please spend a couple of years in a larger metropolitan area outside of central IL before dismissing my writing as silly.
My point in bringing up the ‘culture’ ‘thang’ as you call it, is that it would be nice to take a train from Peoria *through* Bloomington to Champaign/Urbana and enjoy the kind of unique restaurants and entertainment that don’t exist elsewhere outside of Chicago. Chicago is a great place to visit, but it is not very kid-friendly. It would be nice to visit other cities, too.
David P. Jordan: Those are excellent ideas. Please be sure to let the town of East Peoria know about them!
East Peoria is aware of them. Amtrak is as well.
Jim,
Actually I get it very well. My younger brother is a grad of U of I. I have spent more than my fair share of time in Champ/Urbana. My wife and all of her family are from Chicago [Tinley Park]… spend almost every holiday and then some in the Windy City. I always opt for lunch at The Lux.
Anyway, I am willing to put my world-wide travel list up against yours any day, but lets not squabble over details. Guess I am just curious as to what your idea of ‘culture’ really is.
I guess I really don’t understand your comment about Chicago not being very kid friendly!?!? I am thinking you need to “spend a couple of years in a larger metropolitan area outside of central IL..,” maybe with a few kids in tow?
“Please spend a couple of years in a larger metropolitan area”
like Champaign? 75,000 residents.
Perhaps it would be impractical to expect native Peorians to spend a few years elsewhere. I would encourage all of the civic leaders in Peoria and the towns surrounding it to form delegations and visit St. Louis and Chicago for the unique dining and activities. Then they can gather ideas and try to make them work in their towns. By the way, I don’t think Peoria area needs any more noisy sports bars featuring scantily-clad girls serving overpriced greasy hamburgers and wings.
New Voice: I grew up in the Chicago area. I used to drive into the city all the time. As your wife knows, the natives avoid the Rock n’ Roll McDonalds, the Rain Forest Cafe, the restaurants at Navy Pier, and the Hard Rock Cafe and Hotel. A REAL native ventures off Michigan Ave and into the neighborhoods. The city of Chicago is not very kid-friendly. Lots of adult activities, but not much for kids to see/do. Well, yes, the Shedd Aquarium and Museum of Science and Industry are nice, but paying $20-25 per person admission after paying $20 to park is insane. Even people living in the Chicago suburbs make such a trip a very rare treat. I have found St. Louis to be kid-friendlier. Have you ever been to Fitz’s in St. Louis?
I have been to Tinley Park. I am not referring to an outlying suburb that no out of town tourist would visit. I am certain that your wife and her family spend time in Chicago for all the eclectic things that cannot be found in the South Suburbs (ethnic restaurants, museums, ethnic foods, classy jazz bars, and even a ballroom (Willowbrook ballroom). Another example: There are no decent Chinese restaurants in Central IL (with the Chinese restaurant on Green St. in Champaign being the minor exception.) Not all of us want to go to disgusting buffets or to the crappy Panda Express in a shopping mall. Next time you are up there, get a copy of the Chicago Reader newspaper and look at all the fun things to see and do. And then think how many of those kinds of things would never, ever come to central IL. There are very few exceptions: It took a lot of begging on behalf of the Grand Prairie mall owner just to get Bar Louis and Flattop Grill to come down here. (Although a Chicago bar, Bar Louis really doesn’t count, as it falls into the noisy sports bar/greasy pub grub category).
Charlie: When I am an senior citizen someday, I would love to be able to take a train everywhere instead of trying to drive. I am thinking about the “Big Picture.” Extend the passenger rail line all across the state, and eventually neighboring states will want to extend those same rail lines throughout their states as well. It would form a true interstate passenger rail system. From a political standpoint, the realistic way for the state to build such a system is one branch at a time.
I must be out of the loop – where is the Lux?
Michigan Avenue’s Grand Lux Cafe…..
Kramer, you must really be out of the loop.
Jim,
Where ever you have lived in the past doesn’t really matter now… you live in Peoria now. Why are even trying to compare Peoria to ….ANYWHERE else?
Your opening statement on your last post tells me you may be something of an ass. Like I said, YOU ended up here for some reason.
If you think Chicago is not kid-friendly, then you must not know it as well as you think. Yes, St.Louis is fun, we have done a number of things down there before. Only been to Fitz’s twice, fair food but great atmosphere. Also had a good time at Grant’s Farm [free beer]. Fireworks every Friday night on riverfront.
My family and I have only been back in the Peoria area for 9+ years. We lived in Minn/St.Paul for around five years before coming back. Great city! Wonder how a bunch of hicks like us got around?
Anyway, I agree, Central Illinois is not the cultural mecca of the world. It isn’t supposed to be. Even after the goobers in Peoria build their $100 million museum! As a family, we will take the train from Pontiac to Chicago on occassion, or my wife will take it to see family and friends. Then we come back home, leaving the hustle and bustle behind.
Besides, the problem here is not your average Peorian [for the most part], it is our ‘ruling elite,’ who are narrow-minded and lack any real vision.
Perhaps getting out of Peoria should be like to one of thousands of small villages in Germany or France to see what life could really be like… There is little in Chicago or Minneapolis that Peoria doesn’t have… except class. Opera, ballet, theater, we got all that. We even have zoos, museums and excellent restaurants… we just dumb it down so much because Peorians don’t demand excellence in anything.
New Voice,
I’m certainly out of the loop if places like Grand Luxe Cafe are now considered representative of Chicago culture. GLC is a chain restaurant that is not only not original to Chicago, but is owned by the same group that owns the Cheesecake Factory, well known for huge portions and a large, formulaic menu. As someone who until very recently spent all of their adult life, and most of their youth, living in Chicago proper (20 + years), it’s my assessment this isn’t the sort of place that actual Chicagoans frequent (Tinley Park does not equal Chicago). In any event, it certainly isn’t the ideal example to hold up when debating the cultural value of Chicago v. Champaign.
kramer,
I didn’t say Lux was representative of anything. I just said I like eating there. We have sampled fare from any number of restaurants, delis, ice cream shops, etc all over Chicago. My wife’s family is Greek; The Parthenon is crap, Greek Islands on Halsted isn’t bad, Costa’s & Pegasus [only eaten there once] not bad.
Just where exactly is “Chicago proper?” Do you mean ‘Chicagoland,’ the metro area? I would love to take you for a ride through Tinley…then you can tell them that “Tinley Park does not equal Chicago.” Don’t be a butt.
There is no debate when it comes to the cultural value of Chicago vs. Champaign [or any where else in Illinois]. Why would you even consider such a thing?
New Voice,
Chicago proper = City of Chicago. I didn’t realize I was being unclear. If I had meant “Chicagoland”, which certainly includes suburbs such as Tinley Park, I would have said so. I have been to Tinley Park – and I realize that there are some suburbanities who equate living as far as out as Tinley as living in Chicago, but that certainly doesn’t make me factually incorrect (nor does it make me a “butt.”) I spend most of my childhood living in Evanston, which is far more urban and unique in character than Tinley Park, and while it actually borders the north side of the city, I still recognize that it is in fact a suburb and not Chicago itself.
My only point about Grand Lux Cafe is that it was suprising to hear such a place even mentioned in a debate about Chicago culture (which you at least appeared to be engaging in with Jim), given that there is nothing uniquely Chicago about it in the least. While Champaign is certainly no Chicago, there are certainly some solid independent dining options (most of them relatively new) and other businesses that lend to the character of the area more than an upscale Cheesecake Factory ever could hope to in Chicago.
Everyone is blowing everything way out of proportion.
An alternatives analysis is a necessary step in the process to get federal funding for any transportation project. This doesn’t necessarily mean that they’ll come to the conclusion that vanpooling will be more efficient than a new rail link, but if the government is spending $300mil in taxpayer money (or whatever it will cost), wouldn’t you want the professionals to look at all the data first to make sure our expensive, shiny new trains won’t end up carrying only 30 passengers a day?
New Voice wrote:
“Anyway, I agree, Central Illinois is not the cultural mecca of the world. It isn’t supposed to be. Even after the goobers in Peoria build their $100 million museum! As a family, we will take the train from Pontiac to Chicago on occassion, or my wife will take it to see family and friends. Then we come back home, leaving the hustle and bustle behind.
Besides, the problem here is not your average Peorian [for the most part], it is our ‘ruling elite,’ who are narrow-minded and lack any real vision.
I respond:
You spend 3/4 of your post insulting me. I don’t know why you took what I wrote personally. Nothing that I wrote was meant to attack anyone on this board. I am sorry. You did save the last two paragraphs (which were the useful ones reposted above) for last.
Peoria doesn’t need to have all the attractions and conveniences that a metropolitan area 5x its size enjoys. My point is that it would be ideal to copy some of the best attractions/restaurants/venues, etc. from much larger midwestern cities and build them in the Peoria area. Now THAT would be vision! Peoria should either strive to become THE stopover point halfway between Chicago and St. Louis, OR it should make traveling to other metro areas super-fast and more convenient. Passenger rail would assist in getting in and out of town quicker.
Sterling:
I understand you regarding the issue of low ridership. However, if we can spend trillions of dollars a year on meaningless foreign wars, we can spend money on a passenger rail line. A $300 million investment in permanent public infrastructure is a small amount by comparison. Once high speed passenger rail lines are built, then many generations of people after us could enjoy it.
Kramer,
Fair enough. We could go on forever over ‘details.’ I was not implying that the Lux was in anyway part of the Chicago cultural scene. I JUST LIKE EATING THERE. I could have made my point clearer… while a native Chicagoan would never consider the Lux a true Chicago dining experience,’ the place is packed, and it does have a certain appeal to ‘out-of-towners.’ Business is business. Peoria could only be so lucky to have a place that pulls them in like the Lux, etc.
I guess my main point of contention with Jim was his idea that Chicago was not very “child friendly.’
Is Champaign a ‘cultural mecca?’ No. Does it have a little more to offer than Peoria? Yes.
Jim,
I spent 3/4 of my post insulting you?!?!?
OK, I apologize for the ‘ass’ comment. I meant it in a nice way.
Unless you consider my pointing out that YOU live in Peoria now an insult, I don’t follow your 3/4 claim.
Aren’t you and Kramer being a little touchy here?
Considering the size of our metro area versus Bloomington/Normal, we should never have to settle for second best. Bottom line is we should have direct rail access from Peoria to Chicago first, and then to St. Louis. When I have driven to Bloomington/Normal to catch a train (quite an irritant considering I live near the farthest Northern point of Peoria), a large percentage of the people boarding the train are from our metro area. Even if I had to pay $50 each way to Chicago or St. Louis from Peoria, it would still be cheaper than what I pay now to drive (gas, parking, etc.) to those places several times a year. And, the train station should be located in Peoria where we already have some infrastructure for such. We all need to hound the task force members about this issue.
By the way, have you noticed the maintenance and re-laying of railroad tracks along Rte. 29 during the last few months?
Regarding the comparison of Peoria to Chicago, Peoria will never be Chicago, and vice versa. There are pros/cons to both cities. I’ve traveled much domestically and overseas and I love to come home here. And, believe it or not, I’ve talked to quite a few people from Chicago who love Peoria….. Truthfully, the history of Peoria versus Chicago is much more interesting.
Debbi wrote: By the way, have you noticed the maintenance and re-laying of railroad tracks along Rte. 29 during the last few months?
Those tracks aren’t being relaid, but rather, the crossties are being replaced. Tracks have been in place since 1854.
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