Illinois State Sen. Dan Duffy may not get his wish for a complete ban on red-light cameras in Illinois, but he says “there’s more than one way to skin a cat.”
A special subcommittee on red-light cameras met Tuesday evening and heard testimony on both sides of the issue. Many citizens and experts, including the Illinois Policy Institute, spoke out against the cameras. Law enforcement representatives spoke in favor. In the end, a “shell bill” was passed out of committee:
A shell bill or vehicle bill is essentially a blank bill passed out of committee that allows lawmakers the flexibility of cobbling together a coherent bill, without the pressure of legislative deadline. In this particular case, because there were a total of five bills containing RLC [red-light camera] reforms, senators will have to work together to find agreement on a single, comprehensive bill on this issue.
What measures might make it into the shell bill?
The next step for anti-red light camera activists is to push legislators to include any and every measures possible that improve safety and decrease red light running. This includes mandating an increase in yellow light timing to 4 or 4.5 seconds, increasing the use of an [all] red interval, and eliminating RLC enforcement [for] right turns on red.
Short yellow-light intervals create what is known as a “dilemma zone.” The driver is too close to the intersection to stop without slamming on the brakes, but too far from the intersection to make it through before the light turns red. By increasing the yellow-light interval, the “dilemma zone” can be eliminated. This change in itself lowers the number of red-light running violations by giving motorists ample warning to stop. Some cities with red-light cameras have been caught deliberately shortening the yellow-light interval (or varying it) in order to induce more tickets. In Peoria, the yellow-light interval is three to four seconds, depending on the size of the intersection according to Public Works Director David Barber.
An all-red interval is the period of time that traffic traveling in all directions have a red light. In other words, once a light changes to red, the cross-traffic doesn’t immediately get a green. There’s usually a one- to two-second delay during which all lights are red before the the cross-traffic light turns green. This allows more time for the intersection to clear before allowing cross-traffic to proceed, which improves safety. In Peoria, signalized intersections have a one-second all-red interval.
Turning right on red is legal at signalized intersections unless they have a red arrow or are otherwise posted with “no right on red” signs. Because of the geometry of the intersections, it’s often necessary to pull up past the stop line in order to see around traffic in the forward lanes. In communities that have red-light cameras, a lot of their revenue is generated by giving red-light citations to drivers who pull up in order to turn right on red in this way.
“We want to put in every reform possible,” says Scott Tucker, GOP nominee for state representative in the 11th district and organizer of a road trip of citizens to the hearings. “So many sensible reforms will kill the cameras over time because there will not be enough revenue to operate the cameras.”
In most cities (perhaps all–I haven’t done an exhaustive search), the police department doesn’t buy the red-light cameras, but instead contracts with a third-party vendor. The vendor installs and maintains the cameras, and in many municipalities, actually sends out the citations to violators. Other municipalities have an officer review the violations and send the citations out from the police department. The vendor gets a cut of the fines imposed on violators. If there are fewer violators, there will be less profit incentive for the vendors. And if that happens, you won’t need a ban on red-light cameras because simple economics will drive the vendors out of business.
People who turn right on red are still required to come to a complete STOP before they turn. They are still required to stop behind the the white line, then they may proceed with caution forward to peer around the corner. I believe you have to come to a complete stop again at the corner before you enter the perpendicular lane of traffic.
Mahkno — Yes, and you’re also supposed to turn on your turn signal 200 feet before turning. Perhaps we can also get the cameras to catch the scofflaws who turn their signals on at 199 feet or less.
Lengthening the yellow phase of signal lights may actually have the opposite effect. As drivers become more accustomed to having a longer yellow phase, more drivers will try to go through the intersection while the light is yellow. Furthermore, if yellow lights are longer here than they are in neighboring states, Illinois drivers will probably end up running more yellow/red lights because we’re more used to longer yellows and longer all-reds.
If you’re a candidate and want to commit a political suicide, go ahead and support a bill that effectively lengthens red lights, which is what this does. Every red light feels a minute longer than it should when you’re driving home from work every afternoon already. It’s one of those things that people take for granted until someone points it out to them. Leave the timing of the signals up to the engineers and professionals who do this sort of thing for a living, not the politicians — nor the red-light camera owner/operators.
I do agree with CJ on right turns on red though. Red light cameras either should not issue citations for right turns on red (or left turns, at a few intersections), or they should be signed as “no turn on red” at intersections with cameras. If they’re going to shake the money tree with red-light cameras, they should at least make sure they’re issuing citations for clear violations, not the hazy gray zone of where to stop when making an otherwise legal turn.
Sadly, expecting people to stop at the line before making a right turn on red, or having photo enforcement efforts reflect this very common “rolling stop” style of driving, is unreasonable on both sides of the argument.
Well, because of my job I had the opportunity to observe a red light camera located at Ogden and Aurora Blvd. in Naperville Tuesday. The camera was installed about 3 months ago at this intersection which is like our University and War intersection being lots of traffic and 4 lanes of it with turn lanes. The reason we watched this was because my company’s vehicles travel through this light. We later met with an official from their local safety and that person has discussed this with Naperville police.
The accidents have stopped. The ones anyway that caused the camera to be installed there. Too many people would run the light and cars were being hit in the intersection. The main accident now, and they have been few, is people slamming on their brakes when the light turns red and someone rear ending them.
The police simply say people drive to fast and follow too closely hence the accidents. If people would slow down and figure out that if the light has been green for awhile, they should expect it to turn. I asked about the right turners. There are 2 cameras. If you cross the white line, the camera snaps a pic, if you are still in the intersection when the light turns red, the second camera snaps a pic and you show up in two pics. Right tuners simply have to stop, then ease out, they are taken a picture of, then, when safe, make their turn. No other pic is taken. Bottom line is that if you run the light, you get 2 pictures taken and that’s how it works.
Police have said the intersection is a lot safer but again, speeders and people who don’t allow enough distance rear end each other.
Then I asked about revenue. The guy grinned and said the light has paid for itself many times over. They are considering more of them.
I watch the intersection for over an hour and I have to admit, people seemed to slow down and they stopped. Not once did I see 3 people turn after the left turn arrow went off like here at Glen and War. I say Bring them on!
“Not once did I see 3 people turn after the left turn arrow went off like here at Glen and War.”
That’s it? How much you got invested Emtronics?
Yea that’s it! That’s enough and none to answer your question. Get over it.
Let’s take a look at that “problem” of three EXTRA people taking the left turn after the left turn lights goes off…
Why do they have a left turn signal?
What happens immediately after the left turn signal changes?
IF someone misses the left turn signal, how long do they have to wait before they are allowed to proceed?
IF someone has to wait while 3 cars go through the intersection AFTER the light has changed, how long must they then wait before proceeding?
What’s the problem… What is the just response here?
Sterling — Interesting theory. I have found no evidence of that happening. When yellow lights are increased, red-light running decreases. In fact, it can decrease so much that red-light cameras are no longer profitable. Here’s an example from last year:
And I have no idea how you get the idea that increasing the yellow interval by a second makes red lights longer.
Increasing the yellow interval makes red lights longer for cross-traffic already waiting at the red light.
You shorten the green light duration by the same amount of time you lengthen the yellow… would be one logical explanation…
Sterling, are you seriously proposing that people stopped at a red light will not only notice, but be annoyed by having to wait an extra second (literally one second)? Don’t you think that’s stretching things a bit? A second makes a difference when you’re traveling at 30-50 mph approaching a changing signal, but I doubt it’s noticeable when you’re already stopped, waiting for the light to change to green.