Now we have to worry about Caterpillar leaving the country, evidently. Check out Congressman Aaron Schock’s interview on Neil Cavuto’s show:
Or, if you don’t want to watch the whole thing, here are the comments that concern me:
SCHOCK: What this bill will do is only speed up foreign competitors buying U.S. corporations. If the President likes Fiat owning Chrysler, and so many of these other foreign competitors gobbling up their U.S. competition because it makes more sense for them to be foreign companies. For the sake of Caterpillar, they only sell 30% of their goods here in our country. If they’re going to be double-taxed on the other 70%, why fly the American flag? […]
CAVUTO: Do you think Caterpillar’s going to bolt?
SCHOCK: I hope that companies like Caterpillar and their brothers and sisters like them around the country will help educate their members of Congress, will help educate their shareholders, and more importantly their employees of the devastating effect of the President’s tax policy, and that members of Congress will hear their phones ring, and ultimately we can kill it.
In other words, Cat should warn everyone that if the President’s tax policy passes, then Cat may leave the U.S. and become a foreign company. Personally, I’m not worried. Peorians ensured that Cat has “drive[n] deep stakes in this community” by passing that museum tax. Cat wouldn’t leave now that we’ve proven our love for them.
A he sounds like a little boy waving a big stick – just because he can.
Ya know what, CJ – those were Cavuto’s words not Schocks. What Schock specifically said was that this plan will harm corporate growth and jobs. That is his opinion based on statements made to him by Caterpillar, Inc. If you disagree with that, fine… but don’t misrepresent what Schock said.
Diane — What Schock specifically said was, “If they’re going to be double-taxed on the other 70%, why fly the American flag?” That sounds like a (not so) veiled threat to me.
I confess that I have supported Aaron as a board member and as a state legislator and voted to send him to Washington, D.C. I admit that I am now leaning toward “parting company with Aaron.” I have already proven in District 150 matters that my fiscal sense isn’t that great, so I am not capable of arguing for or against Obama’s stimulus plan, etc. I do understand the dangers of Obama’s proposed tax policies for companies like Caterpillar. Also, I understand that outsourcing hurts American workers. I wish I could truly wrap my mind around which of these two stances poses the greatest danger for American’s financial survival, etc.
However, none of that has so much to do with my changing attitude toward Aaron. Several on the blogs have, for some time, accused Aaron of being an opportunist. Perhaps I chose not to see it before, but right now I’m seeing it. Therefore, I am bothered by his recent seemingly never ending attempts to take advantage of the present political climate in order to climb the Republican ladder. Of course, it doesn’t help that I am an Obama supporter and feel that Aaron is doing everything he can to play into the greatest fears of many Republicans–and to offer himself and his views as their best hope for the future. I guess I just couldn’t resist sticking my neck into this noose–to be fodder for all kinds of disagreement with me. I should stick with 150 issues.
CJ – Schock simply posed a rhetorical question. I sometimes wonder if you would dance a jig if Caterpillar did in fact, pick up and leave.
Sharon, Aaron is doing his job representing his districts interests. If the largest area employer is telling him that this plan will greatly affect their ability to create and sustain jobs, shouldn’t that reflect itself in the policies he supports?
This stuff really is over my head, but I do trust Schock’s ability to discern what would be good for Central Illinois and what won’t. I believe him to be an honest and ethical representative. Undoubtedly he will not always be right, but eventually enough dissenting opinions will emerge that even you and I (Lol!) will begin to understand what would be in the best interests of our community.
Btw, Sharon, the only reason your opinion of Schock may be changing is you read the blogs too much. Get back in to the real world where the majority of John Q. Public feels he is doing an outstanding job.
The Schockmeister voted against equal pay for women. Then he turned around and voted against the hate crime bill. He seems to favor off shore accounts however. I also believe he was extremely instrumental in giving us Ken Hinton…. You don’t have to read the blogs for this information, it’s all over the news.
Obama got elected because of two primary emotions:
1. guilt – of affluent whites who voted for Obama;
2. disgust – of white conservative Christians who stayed home rather than vote for McCain and the cadre of national socialist apologists who were able to rig the nomination;
As long as a person has a Messianic feelings toward Obama, whether they are white and see in him as the milk and honey of an integrated promised land, or they are black and through the lens of racial identity see him as a family member, any criticism of Obama or his policy no mater how measured is going to provoke a visceral reaction.
Schock seem to be the one that the media is calling upon to be the point man of these criticisms, probably first because of the novelty of his age, secondly because of his photogenics and thirdly because he is from Obama’s back yard.
The irony is that Schock is a studied prodigy both in the policy sense and political sense. Give Schock a few days, much less a few weeks on an issue that hits right in his district and he is going to run oratorical rings around 99% of any politician addressing the same issue.
Also note that while Obama may have been an Illinois Senator he has never had to deal with this issue of the INTERNATIONAL taxation of corporations. As State Senator this was not in his venue, and while Illinois Senator there being a Republican Executive Branch, this issue was never going to see the light of day and therefor was not of prescient discussion.
Obama is going to be interesting to watch in a venue in which he is verse – Constitutional Law and accordingly the appointment of a replacement for David Souter, but Obama treads on unfamiliar ground when he is in the realm of international commerce and taxation. I talk to a lot of Chinese here in Ann Arbor. The Chi-Com military is waste of time. The educated Chinese and Chinese Americans here see them as a non-factor. But what they do point out is that as a whole the Chinese people are vastly more aware of what is going on internationally and in AMerica than the average American is aware of what is happening in China and the rest of the world and that the hard working conservative, penny pinching Chinese are going to clean our clocks economically. It is just a matter of time. And those I know are laughing at Obama and “organized labor” for handing them American companies and technology on the cheap.
Diane — It was, indeed a rhetorical question. Good first step. Now think it through. What was the implied answer? And what is the implication of that answer, in context with the rest of the interview? You can do it! Think real hard! 😉
MAWB: None of this is “news” to me; I just held out for as long as I could because I truly have liked Aaron as a person and as a board member–now that’s as close as I’ve come to being shot at close range by many. Frankly–and this is where I’ll hear gun fire, but the blog may need another good fight–I don’t think Aaron and the other board members had any other choice but Hinton at the time. Aaron and the others are probably glad they aren’t around now to be in a position to defend their choice.
No, Diane, the blogs really have nothing to do with my change of heart–it’s my own politics. Aaron and Joan Krupa were my two holdouts. Sorry! I knew that you would fire the first shot. 🙂
In 2004, the most recent year for which data is available, U.S. multinational corporations paid about $16 billion of U.S. tax on approximately $700 billion of foreign active earnings — an effective U.S. tax rate of about 2.3 percent
A January 2009 GAO report found that of the 100 largest U.S. corporations, 83 have subsidiaries in tax havens.
In the Cayman Islands, one address alone houses 18,857 corporations, very few of which have a physical presence in the islands.
Nearly one-third of all foreign profits reported by U.S. corporations in 2003 came from just three small, low-tax countries: Bermuda, the Netherlands, and Ireland.
[Quote] – “The closing of three major tax haven loopholes should garner $190 billion in tax revenue for the government in the next ten years.”
INGERSOLL – What “Republican Playbook” are you getting your info from? Tax havens and security blankets out the butt, and nearly every major corporation in the U.S. [including CAT] claims to be feeling the economic pinch. Despite laying off thousands of workers and asking for govt handouts, most of them manage to [magically] keep their major stockholders happy, slappy and crappy…..
I go with Sharon on this…. Schock knows the quickest way to rise up the ‘party ladder’ is to simply disagree with Obama across the boards.
That little Republican gunslinger whanna be!
I would move out of Peoria simply because the rest of the country is beginning to associate Peoria with Aaron Schock. Unfortuantely, it is a litle more difficult to move out of the 18th Congressional District!
I have to admit voting for the “Boy Wonder” in a previous election. Heck, I even voted for Ray LaHood a few times, but the more I watch Aaron, the more fearful I become. He seems to be playing ultra-conservative far right. Does anyone have any details of the actual tax proposal? I definitely support stopping off-shore tax shelters. I am off to explore the platform of the Modern Whigs. What I have read so far is pretty appealing.
Oh, almost forgot…………….
Ingersoll writes – “Schock seem to be the one that the media is calling upon to be the point man of these criticisms, probably first because of the novelty of his age, secondly because of his photogenics and thirdly because he is from Obama’s back yard.”
O.K. I can see this, but you forgot the forth and most important reason the media loves Schock…….?
Have you ever considered the fact that the media loves this kid because they can rip him a brand new ‘a _ _ hole’ every time he gets in front of the camera? I mean really… ever since his T.V. appearance at the Rep Party Convention, the nation is wondering what will come out of his yap next.
No one is willing to reign him in [yet], because we are having too much fun watching him running at the head of the ‘pack’, waving the Republican Party banner all over the place.
I find it interesting that Schock seems to base his opinion on a meeting with CAT officials two weeks ago, whereas yesterday, when the President announced the initiative, CAT’s official response (at least as reported in the PJ Star) is that they need to wait for more details about the plan. Even Cavuto stated that he understood the proposal would not affect CAT and Deere, for example.
Clearly, you can debate whether or not corporate taxation policies are beneficial or not for America (just as you can progressive tax rates, estate “death” taxes, etc.), but I agree with what I understand to be C.J.’s point that Schock’s comments that infer companies such as CAT would incorporate outside of the U.S. over this initiative is a simple scare tactic. That Schock would also seemingly respond so strongly against the plan before knowing the details also seems to be opportunistic and highly political.
New Voice – You are delusional
CJ – The conclusions that one would draw from that rhetorical question would be directly related to ones opinion on the issue, would they not? For instance, your answer to the rhetorical question posed by him would most likely differ from mine. So what’s the problem?
Jon – It is possible, in fact likely that what Caterpillar tells their elected representatives behind closed doors may differ from their “public statement”.
Thank you, Diane. The likelihood that CAT would express their opinions in one fashion to an elected official behind closed doors, yet state something presumably more cautious in their “public statement”, would seem to show that they are exercising good judgement. Alas, Schock didn’t seem to show the same restraint.
IMO: If the policy fits into the CFR’s agenda, then it may not be so scary — it just may be part of the globalization of the earth.
http://www.cfr.org/bios/11603/barack_obama.html
Perhaps Schock could have chosen his words more carefully, but the point he made was clear and spot on. U.S. tax and import/export laws cannot serve as a roadblock to U.S. companies doing business overseas, as it will ultimately cause all workers and communities to suffer, that rely on U.S. based employers that do business internationally.
Schock used the example of CAT’s expansion in China. The China market has great sales potential but it is very price competitive. Special series of tractors are produced specifically for the Asian market. If these machines were not manufactured overseas, the added costs of transportation and importation would make their price points non-competitive to other machines offered in this marketplace. Making it more costly for CAT to do business abroad will not have the effect of generating more jobs for U.S. citizens, but rather less.
The reason CAT has been able to weather this economic storm as well as it has is due to its international business base. More workers would have been laid off in Peoria but for the robust sales of 2007 and 2008. As Schock noted, 70% of those sales were international. Additionally, the China stimulus package is already producing increased sales for CAT and will be a critical factor in its recovery and one of its only bright spots for 2009. (See Owen comments – 1st quarter results).
Yes, Jon, but it is Schocks job to be persuasive and influence policy. It is Caterpillars job to make tractors and be profitable for shareholders. Those two agendas might dictate two entirely different standards of behavior. Good discussion.
Frustrated: Great points!
Corporate socialism must be stopped or limited, same as everyone seems to think that welfare for people should stop or be limited. Corporations need to quit sucking the government tit and make a profit without taxpayer assistance. I can’t believe that anyone supports corporations not paying their share of taxes. They have ‘personhood’ status until it comes to taxes? 🙂
Themis:
How would/could corporate socialism be stopped or even limited when the Federal Reserve coupled with the IMF and World Bank sharing the helm?
Diane, wouldn’t Schock be more effective in persuading and influencing policy if he reviewed the details of the plan before denouncing it? Call it naivety on my part, but, with any new Congressman, I would hope that he could help change the Washington political paradigm, even if I don’t agree with his conservative views, rather than embrace the behavior of politics as usual. I don’t agree with Chase’s view that Obama was elected out of guilt or disgust for McCain (though I am sure many were disgusted with Bush policies), but rather a far more powerful tool – hope and idealism.
I really find it ironic that Obama is so concerned about corporations paying their fair share of taxes when standing next to him is Turbo Tax Tim Geitner, one of the many tax cheats in his administration.
I find it ironic that everyone blames this mess on Obama.
Oh, and Schock is such a tool. Blech
Well….finally some are seeing Schock for what he really is. How about his vote on the hate crime….the SCHIP….There is so much hypocrisy in his voting record. His innocence is not golden.
Chase,
I do not believe it was Obama who handed the industries to China….Better go back and check the timeline. Wow! Caterpillar built all those plants and transported all those managers/interpreters/ etc since January, 2009 to China and all the other countries….
Diane said, “Yes, Jon, but it is Schocks job to be persuasive and influence policy. It is Caterpillars job to make tractors and be profitable for shareholders. Those two agendas might dictate two entirely different standards of behavior.”
Caterpillar has several very persuasive lobbyists in DC, including one focused solely on tax issues. Schock meets regularly with this guy and is a mouthpiece for him – and for CFO Dave Burritt.
Also, Cat is currently incorporated in Delaware but has no facilities in Delaware. You think it would be outrageous for them to incorporate in Switzerland? Doesn’t mean they immediately pick up and leave town but it’s a start.
(And don’t think that possibility hasn’t been discussed…..)
“Btw, Sharon, the only reason your opinion of Schock may be changing is you read the blogs too much. Get back in to the real world where the majority of John Q. Public feels he is doing an outstanding job.”
I want to see if I have this right, Diane:
The only way a person could not think Schock is doing an outstanding job is because they are reading too many negative things about him.
I musn’t live in the “real world”, because I’ve talked to plenty of people who don’t see the greatness that is Schock. Including my mother, who doesn’t even own a computer.
I wasn’t a fan of this museum either, that must have been because I read the blogs too much.
diane sez: “Btw, Sharon, the only reason your opinion of Schock may be changing is you read the blogs too much. Get back in to the real world where the majority of John Q. Public feels he is doing an outstanding job.”
I say: This coming from a person who operates three blogs (if you count Billy’s) and uses one of them to berate the school district non stop and the other to color Republicans? Maybe it’s time you pulled your head out and see, like many now are seeing, Schock is a tool.
Diane sez: “..but I do trust Schock’s ability to discern what would be good for Central Illinois and what won’t. I believe him to be an honest and ethical representative…”
then Diane sez: “but it is Schocks job to be persuasive and influence policy..”
I say: Which is it? Kiss up to big corporations or helping the people in his District? Schock is playing the field for himself and only himself. I’d be surprised if Schock even gave Central Illinois 5 minutes of thought while wandering around Washington. I supported Schock on the school board and even on his run for State Rep. but by then even I could see that Schock has higher aspirations than taking care of us. He is out for himself.
This thread is very confusing… Diane beating on Sharon, Mazr beating up Diane, Emtronics beating up Mazr… over what?
Aaron Six-pack Schock? Poster boy? What is the economy but a tool to leverage power from the government and the people? Cat doesn’t have any responsibility to Peoria… it doesn’t have a responsibility to its employees or suppliers or even its customers… the only obligation ANY corporation has is to its stock holders… the vast majority of whom are not you and me.
http://quicktake.morningstar.com/StockNet/ownership.aspx?Country=USA&Symbol=CAT
Owens got over 500,000 shares March 3 of this year (@ today’s price: $20,000,000)
Olberhelman and Lavin have received 175,000 this year
Sorry to tell you the truth… but that is my job.
Sorry… March 2nd of this year… and it was 524,332 shares
FOOD FIGHT !!!!!!
noooo….I’m beating on Diane too! Damn, get it right.
kcdad, I’m a lover not a fighter
I’m not beating on Sharon. I love Sharon like a sister! I was merely pointing out that she has always thought highly of Schock until she fell under the influence of you hooligans. 😉
Re: berating the school district – I just call it as I see it. I am all for the District! I think their leadership is a disgrace and it becomes more obvious with every passing day.
“leadership” being used very loosely in post above.
Diane, the personal feelings are mutual. However, the blogs really had nothing to do with my change about Aaron. When Aaron was in Springfield, I think he worked well with Democrats and Republicans because at the state level Chicago vs Downstate takes precedence over Dem vs Rep. However, as I see it, now Aaron can’t afford to be bi-partisan–not if he wants to rise in the Republican party. Obviously, my vote for Aaron was inconsistent with the rest of my votes in this election–so he was the exception. Actually, no one can count on my vote four years from now–I switch sides frequently.
Sharon – What gets me is that if Schock doesn’t get in line with the Obama-maniacs he is accused (by Democrats) of being overly partisan. The reality is he feels the Obama policies are just wrong for America – as most Republicans do. We’ll just have to see how it all shakes out over the next 50 years or so.
Diane, I didn’t criticize Schock for not getting in line with Obama – I criticized him for denouncing a plan before he knew the details, and yes, that is overly partisan, in my opinion. Heck, Cavuta made Schock look like an alarmist!
I criticized him for denouncing a plan before he knew the details
How would you know that he didn’t know the details?
On second thought, Sharon, I’ll probably be dead before I have the chance to say “I told you so”. 😉
Diane, I know I will (be dead)–and I’ve never been called a maniac before. Right now I’m busy writing a letter to the board and admin about the new 150 summer school lottery plan. I will share it (at the risk of taking up too much space) as soon as it’s finished.
“How would you know that he didn’t know the details?”
Because he’s a Republican?
With Obama only in office 4 months Diane, how can you call him a manic and say his policies have failed America? I wish you and your Right minded kind were that critical of Bush. What new ideas have the Republicans come up with? Even their new attempt to re-invent themselves sounds exactly like the old ideas. They call the Dems a monarchy and yet it is the son of former Governor, his son Mitt and brother of failed President Dubya, Jeb. That too sounds like a monarchy. Also, if you are showing your love for the District, well,……that’s some love.
Here, have a look: http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=226585&title=republicans-the-lost-party
I didn’t say either of those things.
Well, let’s see. When challenged by Cavuto that CAT, for example, would not see any increase in taxes, Schock replies that he “talked to a CAT” rep some two weeks ago. Yet, when CAT is asked about it, while rightfully showing concern, stated that they were waiting for more details.
So, if Schock truly knew the details, he didn’t use any to defend his position against the plan. No, he just suggested that CAT and other companies might leave the U.S.
You and I have had a better discussion about this than Schock did on Cavuto while trying to persuade and influence policy. Schock resorted to typical (on both sides of the aisle) partisan scare tactics.
Jon – The point of the piece was to express concern that the Obama plan could potentially put American Corporations at a disadvantage with their over-seas competitors in a global market. You may have not liked his delivery (shoot the messenger?)- but the concern remains the same. Do we want to get to the real root of the issues or not?
Wow… I thought Wrestlemania was over for the year. I guess not… Who’s bringing the steel cage to the next blogger bash?