The 2006-2009 teachers contract with District 150 specifies that teachers’ “hours of work” are “six (6) hours and thirty (30) minutes for primary and middle schools,” and six hours thirty-five minutes for high schools. By comparison, Pekin District 108 teachers’ work day includes the six and a half hours of the school day, plus thirty minutes before and twenty minutes after those hours, or about seven and a half hours. Dunlap schools have a similar requirement.
At Monday’s District 150 board meeting, union president Bob Darling spoke to the board during the “audience presentation” portion of the meeting, and among other things he defended the hours of work by saying, “I don’t know any teacher that only works six and a half hours.” The implication is that, even though they’re not contractually required to work longer, most teachers put in much more time than the minimum. I have no doubt that his assertion is true.
Nevertheless, because of the contractual limitation on hours, the school board only has six and a half hours to work with when scheduling the day. If they want to add teacher collaboration time to the day, they can’t tack it on before or after school, nor can they require teachers to use their prep periods (use of the prep period is also restricted in the contract). The board’s only options are not to add teacher collaboration time, or to take time away from the students. The latter is exactly what they did when they established so-called “wacky Wednesdays.”
I think critics have a point when they ask what other full-time job requires only six-and-a-half-hour days (32.5 hours per week), 180 days a year. I’ve never heard of it anywhere else. Full-time jobs usually require eight hours a day (40 hours per week). If teachers worked a standard full-time shift each day (or even seven and a half hours per day) with teacher collaboration time and a prep period(s) built in, then the district wouldn’t have to take time away from the students and the collaboration time would improve instructional quality, right? And since they’re already working those extra hours anyway, why would they object to making it part of their contractual work day, especially when it will greatly benefit the students and not obligate teachers to any more time than their peers in other districts?
I can’t speak for a contracted teacher, but, personally, when I taught (student teaching and as a “long-term” sub) I was always there 30 minutes early, at least, and stayed, sometimes, for as long as an hour afterward. That didn’t include the time spent at home grading and prepping that didn’t get done at school.
Many teachers may not disapprove of changing this time requirement, if they felt it wasn’t going to be taken up with professional development, meetings and such that often have very little value to them. I have heard teachers complain that the PD meetings are a joke and they would rather be working with their department and individually to make the curriculum the best it can be for the students it is intended to reach.
I may be speaking out of line since I am not a contracted teacher, but I know where I stand on the issue and am comfortable with adding on an extra hour, if it will be beneficial to the students, first and foremost.
Makes perfect sense to me. Please, add those hours, dedicated teachers. Don’t just talk the talk. Walk the walk..in writing.
I understand that some teachers say they work at home. At my school, I can name which teachers go home right away and no they don’t have their own children.
What profession doesn’t take work home – even after working 8 – 10 hours a day? Teachers are not unique in this respect.
Of course they have to take work home if they only work 6.5 hours a day.
You are asking the $50 million dollar question now: What is the objection to those extra hours being part of the contractual work day?
Most teachers will tell you that their 32 hours a week feel like 40 hours a week. They will also tell you they are underpaid, that making bulletin boards is the hardest part of their job, and that during their long summers off they just can’t find any time for themselves.
BAM–you are right. The PD sessions are, for the most part, a collosal waste of time. That is my objection to adding time–administrators would fill it with meetings that have little, if anything, to do with good teaching.
Sharon, why should teachers be exempt from meetings that are completely irrelevant to their job and a complete waste of time when all of the rest of us have to suffer through them?? 🙂
11Bravo…That’s exactly what I was thinking! If you figure that out, please contact Corporate America.
This is what I wrote at PJS concerning the amount of money the teachers get paid for the amount of time they put in. Time does not include outside of the school.
A beginning teacher making $35,000 a year has to decide upon hiring if they choose to receive their paycheck throughout a 12 month year or a school year. Either way, that pay would amount to just over $2900 BEFORE taxes. Assuming 25% loss in taxes, their take home pay would be $2187. They also have deducted from their pay: health insurance (like most other employees) and union dues. In D150, you have to pay union dues even if you choose to not be a part of the union.
As far as I know, D150 is the only district in the area that has a teacher’s union.
I’m sure you could live on $2500 a month. Don’t forget that these new teachers are also paying off student loans that average about $400 a month. Unfortunately, many of them will spend quite a bit on their rooms out of their own pockets because D150 only provides $50-100 for supplies and even that isn’t available right away. I don’t know of other jobs that require the employee to pay for their own supplies.
Adding on the extra hour isn’t the issue, the issue is how well spent that hour would be. If it is spent bettering the student’s education, GREAT!!! If it is spent in mindless meetings and PD, then forget it.
As an addendum–
Teachers also have to continue to take classes in order to keep their certification up-to-date. This often means taking classes at ISU (which means an hour drive one way, 2x a week–and maybe it being reimbursed) or at BU (which is maybe reimbursed at the ISU rate) Currently, teachers are required to be working towards their master’s degree without being reimbursed for it. Tuition at BU for a PT student is $700/credit hour and most classes are a minimum of 3 credit hours. Tuition at ISU is about $300/per credit hour (I think).
Just food for thought.
If you have students loans @ $400 a month maybe you shouldn’t have gone to Harvard. Its only been a few years since I graduated from a public university and you would have been hard pressed to build up enough student loans to equal that kind of payment. Also where did $35,000 automatically become $29,000 right of the bat? You lost me on that.
D150 is not the only area district with a union. I know Washington HS 308 has a union, and I’m pretty certain D50 & 52 in Washington do as well.
In contrast, I’m pretty certain D51 does not, but feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
Also, most companies have cut back if not eliminated tuition reimbursement programs IF they had them in the first place. I just think there is a huge disconnect between teachers who have never worked in the private sector who think that corporate America is such an easier place to make a living.
Great article! I think that is what is so appealing to many about Charter schools. The ability of “management” to make adjustments to how school services are delivered without the constant need for negotiation. I would imagine that in a non-union setting there would be more teachers on the “team” determining how things operate. With District 150, the administration is secretive, because they believe they need to have all their duck in a row in order to convince the teachers’ union of the need for change. And of course, as we know, administration often is missing a duck or two and the valuable input of teachers and others that are part of the equation.
Reqarding starting salaries. I think $35,000 as a starting salary in Peoria sound fairly competitive. I doubt that many college grads in the area are making much more, and other fields require 8 hour minumum days and year-round employment.
Good post.
Amen 11Bravo – My husband works in the private sector. He typically works 10 hour days and then comes home and has several conference calls and/or works on the computer for another one to two hours. He spends at least one day of the weekend on the computer for three to five hours, so he will be caught up for the next week. He is not doing anything special at his company, his co-workers have the same rigorous work schedule. Before the economic crisis, it was not uncommon for him to travel extensively, being gone two weeks or more out a month. Forgive me if it is hard for me to understand someone complaining about working more than a 6 1/2 hour day.
11Bravo–
What I meant was if the new teacher makes $35,000/year that averages out to $2900/month BEFORE all other expenses.
Also, having recently graduated from college I can attest to the enormity of college loans. I finished my degree in 2.5 years because I had an AAS when I entered. There were classes that I needed before I could make the jump to junior level classes. I chose to attend BU because it was within walking distance of home and was more feasible financially than attending ISU. I had scholarships, grants, loans, AND I paid out of pocket monthly. Even with all of that it was still considerably cheaper than attending ISU (transportation fees, daycare for children after school, no scholarships offered, more out of pocket).
In regards to tuition reimbursement–
I don’t know of many jobs that requires its employees to continue with higher education in order to keep their job and I’ve spent many years in corporate America.
bamcdaniel: What prevents teachers from supplementing their salary during summer break? $35,000 per 9 months extrapolates to $46,666 for a full year of work (the rest of the world works 12 months a year). That’s almost $3900 per month.
The sympathy train has left the station. Bottom line-Teachers will not vote to work more with no additional pay even if it is for the benefit of the children.
bamcdaniel: I can’t find where in the contract the teachers are required to continue with higher education. Can you tell me where that is?
Any professional who has hopes of staying relevant in their field should be doing continuing education and putting in extra hours. Teachers are not unique in this respect.
Why is this about a first year teacher? I know of no job options that offer higher pay for what is clearly a posh schedule then what teachers have. How much is a teacher with 10 years experience and a masters earning for her 6.5 hour per day, 9 months per year job?
C.J.–Just before I left teaching, teachers were put on a 5-year plan–I believe it is related to state certification, not with 150’s contract. During every 5-year period, a teacher either has to take a certain number of college classes or attend so many workshops, etc. Most of us chose to take the college courses–because that is the way to go up on the salary schedule. However, teachers that had already gone as far as they could on the salary schedule chose to gather up these credits (they may be callled PDs) from workshops, etc. These workshops are usually rather worthless. I think teachers probably will have to give in to the extra required time–obviously public sentiment is not on the teachers’ side. Of course, most of you are forgetting that most high school teachers are practically forced into some kind of extra-curricular assignment (and are made extra for it). Therefore, all the coaches, etc., will be going to their coaching duties immediately after school–they won’t be required or able to go to the ridiculous workshops. They will be paid extra for those duties, but the other teachers will be the captive audience at whatever the building principal has planned. Of course, what will eventually happen is that administrators won’t have time to plan these get-togethers and teachers will be allowed to work in their rooms (and probably leave early for various reasons). Also, there is a matter of expense. Speakers often have to be paid to come to these workshops–the district will foot that bill, and the taxpayers’ money will be wasted.
CJ–
In order to keep your teacher certification a teacher must accumulate so many “credits” in the first 4 years. This is noted on the ISBE website. After that,, it is every 2 years. If you don’t acquire the needed credits you lose your certification.
I’m looking for the direct link now.
Here it is:
http://isbe.net/certification/html/new_teacher.htm
The other little secret about teachers getting their master’s is that in most districts you don’t even have to complete the degree to get a raise. Most districts give a raise for completion of half of the degree and then another raise for completion and its pretty significant too. Don’t misunderstand me though, I don’t think teachers make too much but I do think they are compensated appropriately for what they do.
Frustrated: We’ve had this discussion before. 🙂 At that time you mentioned how many hours your husband works overtime, etc. I asked then–how much does your husband make? This is where teachers are at a disadvantage–everyone knows how much they make and can, therefore, make comments about how they don’t work hard enough for their money, etc. Also, I’m willing to bet that teachers who work in smaller districts–and do not have a union–are mostly women whose husbands work and pull down good salaries. Therefore, they have the “posh” schedule to which Michael refers–and they never fight for more money or benefits because they don’t have to raise a family on their salaries. I don’t know where in District 150 any teacher has a “posh” job. As usual, also, many of you either don’t believe or don’t know how much the average teacher spends on supplies, etc., for their own classrooms. Did you pay attention when Thomas Jefferson burned–teachers wanted insurance to pay for all the things which they had purchased with their own money? I believe they will just be out the money. I know many years ago when I worked at Caterpillar, I was provided with all the necessities–paper, pens, pencils, paper clips, etc. Not so in 150. We had to pay such supplies and for all our bulletin board displays–and primary teachers are expected to change the displays on a regular basis. I gave my students computer grade sheets every week–all that was done on my own home computer, with paper and ink that I had bought myself. By the time I left 150 if I needed ink for the computer in my room–and if I wanted it in a timely fashion–I had to pay for it myself.
Wow Sharon, that was completely sexist. Maybe you should visit some rural school districts before making bold (and false) claims like that.
Every public school (not parochial or charter) in Illinois is unionized. IFT or NEA……
Maybe D150 was trying to emulate the State of Hawaii schools with Wacky Wednesdays? After all, Hawaii schools are second to the bottom in student achievement; second only to Mississippi. With a little more work, D150 could be headed for that number 1 spot. Maybe administrators are trying to get some travel to Hawaii to “study”.
Hawaii Elem. school hours – Mon, TUE, THU, FRI is 7:50am to 2:00pm, WED 7:50am to 1:20pm.
11Bravo…when I was in D150, you could move “steps” horizontally across the pay scale with each 15 college credit hours you earned after your Bachelors (the vertical portion of the scale was years experience). So, BA level teachers would get one amount, Ba +15 credits slightly more, etc. A new level existed for Master’s degrees, then MA +15, MA +30, and so forth though MA +75/Doctorate. I think this formula is still in effect…
JC – What you described as how a teacher makes more money is the problem. It doesn’t matter if a teacher is good or not as all they have to do is keep piling on the college credits to get pay increases.
Suppose you work for a private company, let’s say in a supervisory or managerial position. You have multiple employees working under you. Your company has standards of conduct which everyone is expected to work. Hypothetically, you have an employee who doesn’t follow instructions, who treats you and the other employees disrespectfully (talking all the time, using crude, lewd or profane language), generally making the workplace a hostile environment for everyone, who is late or doesn’t show up at all, you’d fire them. You wouldn’t expect your employees (or yourself) to put up with that behavior.
HOWEVER…. if you’re a teacher in public school (particularly in 150, where as a parent I have experienced this), and you have students who are not following instructions, talking, talking back to a teacher or using profanity… they get a “card flip” and maybe a visit to the principal/visit with the parents. Then they get to come back the next day and do it all over again. And the teachers have limited courses of action to deal with the discipline problems. D150 teachers — please correct me if I’m wrong — have you had the freedom or support from administration to apply discipline as needed?
Yes, the full-time teaching schedule is lighter than the full-time private-sector schedule. But don’t working conditions count for something?
Most teachers I know teach in the public school because (1) they see it as their calling, (2) they have a passion for the kids and/or (3) they love teaching. So they’re not likely to complain about their jobs or just “get another job.”
Try working retail Martha.
“Yes, the full-time teaching schedule is lighter than the full-time private-sector schedule. But don’t working conditions count for something?”
Answer: No, they don’t. You signed up for it.
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this subject. Those who work in education understand what is required of them by their immediate boss(principal), boss’s boss (superintendent), boss’s boss’s boss (school board), and top boss (taxpayers/parents). What others fail to acknowledge is the amount of insubordination a teacher will encounter in his/her career and still continue to teach because they love the job.
Everyone assumes (if they have never been in a classroom as a teacher) that it is a land of bliss. That might be true in other districts, but in D150 it can sometimes be referred to as a war zone. Every student comes in each morning ready to do battle, with their own demons for the day and the teacher is the one who is left to diffuse situations and continue to teach to NCLB requirements.
The general public needs to walk in the shoes of the teacher for a week so they get a feel of what classroom behavior is like. I suppose we could have a trade jobs day, but my guess is no one would really want to try it and it is illegal to put someone in a classroom to teach that does not have a Bachelor’s degree, according to the state of IL.
We just have to agree to disagree.
I had a student come into my classroom one morning in the early spring who was upset with a problem that occured on the playground before school (I had no knowledge of the problem). After attendance was taken, I passed out assessment books (done every Friday morning) and this child continued to kick his desk with his big tan boot. I quietly asked him to stop because he was disrupting other students, but he decided to kick louder. I walked him over to my open doorway with his assessment book and pencil and said sit here (in the open doorway, away from his desk) and work on your test. He very quietly obliged. End of story? No, the principal puts a note in my mailbox telling me that sitting a child in the doorway is not the kind of “effective punishment” we use at THIS school. For one thing, it was not a punishment, I was trying to help the rest of my class be successful, in the meantime, it calmed this young man down–which did work. Yes, I use cardflipping because that is the ONLY discipline we are allowed to use. Does it work? NO!
So it’s better to be sworn at by a pimply-faced teenager than a middle-aged man on a power trip? Mistreatment happens in the private sector also…the only difference is that there is no three month break in the middle along with ‘holiday’ shortened weeks every month in between.
On another note, teachers’ pay should be based performance and not union membership status.
I just posted this on pjstar and thought it fit here as well
We need to realize that we are living in a global society where every job can now be farmed out to a lower bidder. Even those doctors who get paid a lot more money can easily be replaced by just as competent Foreigners that will do it for less. All the non-factory workers did not care enough to make an honest attempt to prevent the factory jobs from leaving. Next, companies sent IT and other lower paying white collar jobs, and the former factory workers now working retail were too bitter to care and higher paying jobs did not care because it was not their jobs. It is a slippery slope, but teachers are soon to be competing with online learning and all the people now working retail will not speak up because nobody spoke up when they lost their jobs. Everybody will blame the Unions because it is easier than blaming the greed of American society as a whole that makes us want cheaper stuff rather than better paying jobs for those of us that are not us.
How many hours a day does Jim Owens work, do you think?
How many hours a week does Jim Ardis work?
How many hours a week do you think Ken Hinton works?
Don’t count the time sitting in their offices… don’t count the time they are in the building, but only the time that they are actually doing what it is they supposedly do…
Now… teachers teach for about 5 or 6 of those hours, a break sometime and you got 6/ 1/2 hours… then teachers go home (if they are worth more than a nickle) and evaluate their endeavors for the day, plan a new strategy for tomorrow and recover from the bureaucratic stress and disappointment of working for a system that cares not one wit about them or their students.
I would say a good teacher puts in about 12-16 hours a day doing their jobs.
James: “teachers’ pay should be based performance”
That sounds real good and even makes sense, but the problem with it is that “performance” is what the students do, NOT the teacher. Education is not about performance. You are confusing it with behavior modification and the training of seals and pigeons.
James: “So it’s better to be sworn at by a pimply-faced teenager than a middle-aged man on a power trip?”
If it were only a pimply-face teenager swearing at me! I have been called filthy names by parents of students simply because I called them to tell them that their child was “not the angel” they thought they had……..(by the way, this student had been removed from another school and “dumped” into my class……..
Kcdad: Very good! Yes, I’ve been to the board rooms–people standing around visiting, coming and going as they please. Jim Stowell is really big on making teachers work more hours–sorry, Jim, here I go again. I have asked him to go check out the work schedule of administrators–even building principals. Actually, I think I was unkind enough to ask Jim about his own work schedule. He said he was good at multi-tasking. I am sure that I worked a good 10 hours a day consistently. But hit 12 to 16 often enough. Of course, I devoted almost all my weekends to teaching preparation, etc. However, as a single woman, I didn’t have responsibilities at home–I don’t know how women and men who have families do all that is necessary to teach. Of course, many of us did grade papers when we were attending boring workshops–I guess that’s multi-tasking.
“He said he was good at multi-tasking.” on the golf course?
kcdad: I believe James was referring to the TEACHER’S performance… not the performance of the students.
Any boss that is earning their pay grade can develop a worthwhile system for evaluating his or her employees. A combination of sitting in with the class, student evaluations of the teacher, curriculum reviews, goal setting / accomplishment, etc… would all be a good place to start.
11Bravo: Uhhh… I have worked lots of retail. All the way through college, grad school, and for three years after grad school: religious bookstores, clothing, video rental, even the occasional restaurant. I have escorted my children out of places rather than have the employees deal with their antics. And I have defended the teacher when there were questions over my children’s behaviors.
I work at a public school and I’m not in a union. I don’t have a contract and I’m an hourly, at-will employee as are all the teacher’s in my program. In my classroom, I have students with IEPs that require differentiation of materials. I don’t write one set of lesson plans…I write several sets with accommodations. I’m “scheduled” for X number of hours per week but I’m often required to stay much later to attend parent/teacher conferences, IEP meetings etc. I’m not able to collect over time.
I chose my career and love my career. But it’s become very difficult to do my job in the current climate. This year, for example, I’m teaching an extra class but my pay has not increased. Each extra class I teach requires that much more prep time…but I’m not granted any extra prep time. My school is broke…I’ve already spent about $100.00 and we’ve only had school for 2 days. I provided my own desk chair, file cabinets, “inbox” and other organizational materials. We don’t have a/c….I bring in my own fans because my school doesn’t have enough for each room.
If I have to travel for a conference, I’m not reimbursed for my travel. If I make school related telephone calls, they’re on my dime. I make my own copies. I’m not complaining, but just as with any other jobs, there are an awful lot of things we do that go completely un-noticed and uncompensated. My father in law was a teacher for 39 years. My Uncle has been a teacher for 20 years. My sister in law has been a teacher for 25 years and I’ve got about 10 years. It’s what we do. Unless someone has been in the trenches, they really, really have no clue what they’re talking about.
Really, you people are taking this 6 1/2 hour work day [AS IT READS ON PAPER] thing far too seriously.
With overpaid corporate execs, politicians, sports figures, etc, etc, so prominant in the news lately, you guys are going to be critical of the SO-CALLED 6 1/2 hour teacher work day?
Scruff,
“Any boss that is earning their pay grade can develop a worthwhile system for evaluating his or her employees. A combination of sitting in with the class, student evaluations of the teacher, curriculum reviews, goal setting / accomplishment, etc… would all be a good place to start.”
– These eval methods are [supposed] to be in place already.
“Yes, the full-time teaching schedule is lighter than the full-time private-sector schedule. But don’t working conditions count for something?”
– Says who!?!? What are we talking about when we say “private-sector?”
kcdad said “Now… teachers teach for about 5 or 6 of those hours, a break sometime and you got 6/ 1/2 hours… then teachers go home (if they are worth more than a nickle)
A few months ago, you said “It should be a struggle to get a teacher OUT of the school before the doors are locked.”
Can you POLITELY explain the difference? (without hurling insults at me, Jim Stowell or others – in keeping with CJ’s request to play nice a few days ago)
With all the time teachers put in outside of the classroom, preparing lessons, grading papers, training, extra curricular activities (coaching?) and more, they put in well over 40 hours a week.
It has been too long since I had my political theories class, so are some of you promoting socialism or communism? Or did you just have some bad experiences in school and hate teachers because of them? How much are some of you willing to pay to be entertained yet complain about the cost of a babysitter? How many of you think that family and friends should watch your kids out of the goodness of their hearts so that you can be entertained because after all that you have spent on tickets and parking and eating out, there just isn’t anything left to pay someone to watch over your children? Shouldn’t the ones watching our loved ones be paid more than those entertaining us? How much pro bono work should professions offer because of the love of their profession? Most professions offer a great deal to society and we should be grateful for those who are willing to take on the challenges of the profession. Should people who go into business or the law or medicine or engineering or education or farming etc. have to sacrifice providing for their families for the good of society? Perhaps we should start a kibbutz system in America and see how it works. Everyone works what they are able–there is no retirement. Everyone has shelter, food, and clothing. No one receives a salary just the essentials as needed. There are no status symbols and no need for anyone to have more than anyone else. What do you think?
kcdad: I believe James was referring to the TEACHER’S performance… not the performance of the students.
Any boss that is earning their pay grade can develop a worthwhile system for evaluating his or her employees. A combination of sitting in with the class, student evaluations of the teacher, curriculum reviews, goal setting / accomplishment, etc… would all be a good place to start.
Scruff: When people discuss paying teachers by performance, they are speaking of using the students’ output/testing scores as a scale to measure teacher’s performance. I think that was kcdad’s point. I would have to say, “Give me a break” if you are seriously considering using student evaluations as a measurement of teacher’s performance. Also, I can set all kinds of beautiful goals–I have to as a teacher–but if they involve the students, there is only so much, as a human being, that I can do.
I just want to say that kcdad’s post regarding a teacher’s working hours is right on target. I have many things I could say but Scruff is obviously someone who hasn’t been in a classroom on a regular basis in District 150 to have even a basic understanding of what teachers deal with just trying to get a reading lesson completed.
I would like to say that I’m all for adding hours to the schedule if it is used to improve student achievement. Telling me yet again how to differentiate instruction, how to deal with poverty in the classrooms, how many referrals our school has written for the month, or how to understand a DIBEL website will NOT benefit student achievement. I would also be all for adding hours to my schedule if you could give me a classroom in K-2 with no more than 20 students. There’s something which will have a huge impact on student achievement. The administration wants to help these kids and increase their test scores—quit closing schools, shoving kids into classes which are already packed, putting kids on busses that have never had to ride one before, make them accountable for their behavior, and let teachers help you come up with plans on how to make things better in the district. You need more money in order to lower classroom sizes? I would suggest making cuts on Wisconsin Avenue and Matthew Street.