While I was on hiatus last month, a letter appeared in the Journal Star from Mayor Jim Ardis promoting the Peoria Charter School Initiative (PCSI). It lays out his argument for supporting a new charter school in Peoria, and concludes with a call to the public to write or call their school board members, asking them to approve PCSI’s application. According to another Journal Star article, that approval would come with a price: “$1.7 million, or 70 percent, of the initial costs.”
In this post, I’ll respond to each of his three arguments:
1. Proven model argument
First, this charter school will follow a proven model that produces outstanding results in urban districts. A similar school in Chicago, the Chicago Math & Science Academy, is rated one of the top three charter schools and non-selective high schools in that city. CMSA graduated its first senior class in 2009. Every graduate was accepted into college (some into multiple schools), and 100 percent entered college this fall. These are exactly the results we want for students in Peoria, and we shouldn’t accept any less.
Yes, they follow a proven model, but it’s not a secret recipe like Kentucky Fried Chicken or Coca-Cola. The model includes all of the usual ingredients for improved student performance: longer school day, smaller class sizes, individualized instruction, parental involvement, highly-qualified teachers, challenging curriculum, community support, etc. Why is it that these things can only be provided by third-party companies like Edison Schools or Concept Schools, Inc. (at considerable cost), but can’t be provided by Peoria Public Schools district-wide? If this model produces “exactly the results we want for students in Peoria,” then why should it be implemented at only one school? Why should only some students benefit?
Keep in mind that the board of the PCSI has made it quite clear that they expect the demographics of the charter school to mirror the demographics of the district at large. So one cannot argue that this method doesn’t work for poor, minority, ELL, or special needs children. According to PCSI, it does. It works for everyone and lifts everyone’s scores. Since the model is no secret, and is universally effective, why the need to bring in Concept Schools, Inc.? Why doesn’t the district just implement the model across the district themselves? Is it lack of money? Political will? Teacher/union cooperation?
The charter school, just like Edison schools, is an attempt to alleviate the symptoms of a deeper problem instead of getting to the root issue. If District 150 education is terrible — and based on test scores, it is for many — shouldn’t our focus be on fixing that problem at the root level and not just trying to provide an escape hatch for some lucky children who (literally) win the lottery to get out of their failing school?
2. School choice argument
Second, District 150 parents want and deserve choice: a high-quality education, a longer school day and year, and more opportunities for their children to be successful. Parents know it is critical for their children to have solid skills in math, science and technology to be prepared for college and career. They’re asking for options, and our School Board must be responsive to those requests.
I expected this argument to be advocating choice between a school with a math and science emphasis and a school with another emphasis, such as fine arts or vocational training. But instead, it appears the choice he’s talking about is between things like a poor education and a high-quality education, or a shorter and a longer school day. What kind of choice is that? Who opts for fewer opportunities for their children to be successful?
District 150 parents want and deserve and have been asking for a high-quality education at every District 150 school. The Board must be responsive to that request first and foremost.
3. Federal funding argument
Third, President Obama and Secretary of Education Arne Duncan are calling for education reform and emphasizing charter schools as a key component. They’ve seen firsthand the success of charter school students. Establishing a charter school in Peoria increases the possibility of additional federal funding for District 150. Without a charter school, we’ll have a much harder time accessing Race to the Top funding.
It’s funny that politicians see “the success of charter school students” when a recent Stanford University National Charter School Study found that 17 percent of 2403 charter schools showed more growth than their traditional public school peers, 46 percent had performance that was “indistinguishable” from traditional public schools, and 37 percent of charter schools were actually worse. But never mind that.
Here’s the carrot for District 150 to say “yes” to spending $1.7 million on PCSI: more federal funding. If you want to get access to “Race to the Top” funding, you first have to race to establish a charter school. Of course, there’s no guarantee you’ll actually get much, if any, “Race to the Top” funding. It just “increases the possibility.” It’s a gamble. Spend $1.7 million on a charter school, spin the wheel, and hope Arne Duncan remembers what a grand time he had with the mayor when he starts writing checks.
The conclusion
I don’t often agree with school board president Debbie Wolfmeyer, but I do in this case: How can the district seriously consider opening a new school for $1.7 million after they just closed Woodruff to save $1.5 million? How can a group like the Chamber of Commerce, who just got through advocating that we close numerous schools — including a high school — because we have excess capacity and need to save money, turn around and say we need to fund a new charter school that includes middle and high school grades?
I share everyone’s desire for District 150 to offer a better education, but I don’t believe the charter school is the answer. I believe it will only exacerbate District 150’s problems the same way Edison has. Because of the money we’re paying to maintain Edison’s contract, cuts have been made in the traditional schools, including a shortened school day for primary school students.
There needs to be a comprehensive solution that improves public school education for all students district-wide. A charter school with limited enrollment in a failing school district is not much of a draw.
If the Edison Program is so grand then why doesn’t the district do a follow up study of ALL edison students once they took the PSAE in high school and study their scores. I do believe you would be surprised that the scores are very very similar. It is not that I disapprove of the Edison Program. My issue is that D150’s financial situation is in the crapper–at best, from buying property they can’t sell to MANY lawsuits they won’t win. They need to clean up MANY things before they JUMP ONTO ANOTHER BANDWAGON–charter school. As an aside: most districts surrounding D150 pay and treat their teachers better –infact many are giving their teachers and staff raises—yes, during a recession……BECAUSE THEY WERE FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE TO THE TAXPAYERS, unlike the administration in D150. Time to reign in spending for now. I’m sure a charter school can wait a few more years…..
For more extensive data on Edison’s successes, you can check back in CJ’s blogs. I’ve posted the numbers before and don’t want to hijack this thread to bring them up again. Sharon, we can go around and around, but all you can say is that you “think” Edison is not an important component of D150’s schools. I disagree and have data to back me up. I think that you have a “feeling” about Edison that is based much more on sentiment than upon data…that’s fine, but then it’s just an opinion…one that I think is wrong based on the facts in evidence.
@150 Teacher, the $$ paid to Edison is not just for 3 schools…it covers benchmarks for all K-8 schools in the district, too. It’s a fixed percentage of the Edison contract. I get what you’re saying about the financial aspect in your post, but really think that it would be counterproductive to cut a program that’s working as well as Edison is working for our schools…
I offer a challenge. Give up Edison for one school year. See if it is the Edison program that is making the difference or is it the teachers…….with a bit of cherry picking by the administration. Just a thought. As far as the charter school, that is a NO BRAINER. You don’t go buy a Cadillac when you barely have enough money for a Yugo…..
150 teacher – in your example, don’t you realize the “Cadillac” costs 90% of your “Yugo”?
The facts remain. D150 is up to it’s eyeballs in debt…..they are closing Woodruff to SAVE 1.7 million dollars, yet want to open a Charter School to the tune of 1.5 million dollars…..As my very wise father always preached…..do not buy something that you cannot afford to pay for and TAKE CARE OF. Are any BOE members listening. Charter School needs to go to a BACK BURNER till finances are in order….don’t worry, there will be other opportunities, you simply have to quit jumping on every bandwagon that Caterpillar dangles in front of you. PLEASE LISTEN…
Respectfully you are misrepresenting the “facts”, just as Wolfmeyer and CJ did. The $1.7MM is a NET savings. The $1.5MM is a GROSS cost – the true net cost/savings will come from decreased costs for NO LONGER having the responsibility to teach 225 kids. (Oh, and to help D150 during this transition, CAT and local individuals and businesses will kick in $1MM) It’s moving monies from one area to another. So, if you can really get a “Cadillac” for 90% of the cost of a “Yugo”, why wouldn’t you move as many kids as possible into that “Cadillac”? Why would you keep pouring money in to an old “Yugo” that you, as you said, can no longer maintain, when you can have a “Cadillac” for less?
But at least we can seemingly agree on the relative qualities – that, all things being equal, the Cadillac is better than the Yugo.
As usual, there is always a “spin doctor” to make it sound like roses and champaigne. The bottom line is, respectfully, that the taxpayers will be on the hook for another “private” school paid for with public money.
Um, “private” school? You mean one that only students who reside in D150 boundaries can attend? You know, for what their taxes contribute? You know, one that will cost LESS than what the current schools do? Oh, yeah, the “cherry – picking” argument. It seems to me that argument has a lot in common with the “death panels” claim made by those opposed to health care reform. Nowhere does it say that will happen, but “trust them”, it will. And Obama wants to pull the plug on your grandma, too.
Roses and champagne? Wasn’t it you who called it a “Cadillac” and compared it to the current “Yugo”?
Perhaps you are unwittingly the “spin doctor”? 🙂
“most districts surrounding D150 pay and treat their teachers better –infact many are giving their teachers and staff raises—”
Most districts around here also have seen rapid growth in the tax base that Peoria has not. Those districts also are attracting students due to results where district 150 is not. Ever wonder why even properties that are in Peoria that are for sale make sure to list DUNLAP SCHOOLS! in the listing report?
JC Friberg, I did the number thing about Edison quite some time ago–I sent my study to board members because I was having this discussion with Mary Spangler at the time. I don’t like to go on just my feelings either. I compared the scores of Edison schools with those of other 150 schools–and there are others that are doing just as well or better than Edison schools, so it’s very difficult for me to believe that it is Edison that makes the difference–there are other variables to consider. I believe that one of the conclusions that I drew was that Edison seems to do better with primary schools than it does with middle schools. Also, I believe that a case can be made to support “cherrypicking” by looking at the enrollment figures in the beginning year(s) of Edison and comparing them to the figures a couple of years later (lowered considerably). As for Northmoor, the draw is from Forrest Hill or War Memorial north–and that does make a diffrerence. Also, I have made the point that looking at the number of black students at Northmoor is misleading. We all need to acknowledge that black students are not all underachievers and do not all live in poverty. It is my “guess” that the black students at Northmoor are equal on both counts to their white peers. I guess I’ll have to redo my study with the latest NCLB scores. Please stop using benchmarks as the excuse to pay out money to Edison. 150 could long ago have replicated that system–and I believe that the state of Illinois offers benchmarks at no cost to the district. As for the charter school, as of Monday we won’t have to argue any more; the decision will be made. My guess is that 150 will vote for it. The BOE members have a habit of saying one thing in public and voting the opposite.
Well said Scanlan-Yerly! My hope is the development of a Charter School in Peoria will create a more positive image of the community that young faamilies might be interested in buying into.
I just read the latest PJS article on the charter school. All of you proponents of the school can sleep easily tonight–the worm has turned; Wolfmeyer is more comfortable with the idea. I’m sure when Parks shows up on Monday night, all BOE members will greet her with smiles and a “yeh” vote.
Sounds like Manual was really the first charter school in the district without being called that formally. From teachers I’ve spoken to, the teachers union signed some agreement and waived parts of the contract as part of the Manual project. It sounds as if Manual has lots of special consideration on many of the items that caused the friction in negotiations. I’ve also heard that the administration at Manual is struggling terribly at the high school level. I’ve been told that’s because they didn’t have much high school experience. Does anyone know how much extra money has been diverted to Manual and how long will that continue? If memory serves me right, their test scores were pretty poor. Do they have the smallest class sizes of the district high schools? Smallest class sizes, significantly more money, more administrators and support services. Are the demographics and challenges at Manual that much greater than other schools in the district? If so, maybe that’s the reason Manual wasn’t chosen. If not, then D150 parent 2’s question seems like it needs to be answered by the Board. I admit, I’ve listened to some fairly disgruntled Woodruff folks but I’ve been open minded about the decision, until now. I think I now see why they are so upset.
Manual has more administrators: 1 academy leader for about 100 7th & 8th graders. 1 for 9th grade, 1 for 10 grade, 2 for 11th and 12 grades plus a principal and an assistant principal.
Of course, $200,000+ a year goes to Johns Hopkins. I believe there are some other “hidden” costs of programs, etc., offered only at Manual.
Manual’s block schedule makes it difficult to assess whether classes are smaller at Manual–that is my guess after looking over all the enrollment figures.
The union did sign a Memoranda of Understanding giving the principal the right to transfer people whenever she chooses. Evidently, her contract also allows her to take off the week of final exams to go home to the islands–which she has done for two years now.
My greatest complaint about Manual (especially with regard to merging Woodruff students) is that the Johns Hopkins program is designed for high school students who read at the 5th and 6th grade levels. Students who read at higher levels should not be accepted at Manual. Manual’s own higher achieving
students were not told that they were going to be enrolled in such a program.
Does Illinois have e reporting system such as IOWA ;
January 4, 2010
State cracks down on school districts that miss deadlines
By STACI HUPP
shupp@dmreg.com
North Polk school officials will lose almost $500,000 in state aid this month as part of an unprecedented effort to crack down on school districts that miss key paperwork deadlines.
State education officials will keep North Polk’s January check because the district is three months late with its certified annual report, a snapshot of cash and spending levels.
The money will be made up in the district’s February check unless school officials fail to wrap up the report this month.
“It wasn’t intended to be a death knell on the overall budget,” said Jeff Berger, the Iowa Department of Education’s chief financial officer. “It was intended to inconvenience, to send a message that we are serious.”
North Polk Superintendent Dan Mart said administrative turnover is to blame for the holdup. The district has enough cash in the bank to cover January bills, he said.
“It doesn’t help, but we’ll hang on here for a month and get through,” Mart said.
A state panel of school budgeting officials handed down the penalty for the first time in December, but it follows years of gripes by education department officials about districts that blow reporting deadlines.
Records show 23 school districts missed the education department’s October deadline, or an extension, for 2008-09 certified annual reports. The reports guide state budget decisions.
School districts in some states are charged late fees. Iowa officials traditionally have looked the other way.
“The fact that the economy is in the tank has really ramped up pressure in this area to have data,” Berger said. “We can’t supply statewide data if we don’t have every district complying.”
By mid-December, the education department received reports from every district except Waukee and North Polk.
The two districts were given one week to file their reports or miss their January state-aid checks, records show.
The decision was approved by members of the School Budget Review Committee, an oversight panel headed by education department director Judy Jeffrey.
Waukee’s report arrived within the week. North Polk’s didn’t.
Mart, who is new to the North Polk district, said his business manager quit in September.
A replacement, hired in October, has worked nights and weekends to catch up, he said.
“Our goal is to have accurate data to the department, not just simply data,” Mart said.
He said the punishment doesn’t fit the crime.
If North Polk had missed deadlines last year, “I would expect this penalty,” he said. “But not the first year.”
Changes in the certified annual reporting process, coupled with the timing – school districts are on the hook for several reporting deadlines in the fall – have fueled delays, said Larry Sigel, a school finance consultant.
“I think the Department of Education has been pretty good about trying to work with districts,” Sigel said.
Delayed state-aid checks could be a harsh penalty for districts that are low on cash reserves. Leaders of those districts would be forced to borrow money to cover monthly bills.
Additional Facts
Missed deadlines
The following school districts missed the state education department’s October deadline, or an approved extension, for certified annual reports. Iowa’s 361 districts are required to report cash and spending levels every year. The reports guide decisions about the state budget. State budgeting officials will delay a state-aid check to the North Polk school district this month for the first time.
– Cedar Rapids
– Sioux Central
– Fort Dodge
– Laurens-Marathon
– Panorama
– Rockwell City-Lytton
– Davis County
– Sigourney
– Moravia
– Clarinda
– Manson Northwest Webster
– Hamburg
– Colfax-Mingo
– Sheldon
– Albia
– Washington
– Marcus-Meriden-Cleghorn
– North Central
– North Polk
– Colo-Nesco
– Fremont
– Walnut
– Waukee
——————————————————————————–
If not WHY NOT?
What is a Charter School?Published December 04, 2007
Written By Grace Chen
Charter Schools. What are they? Charter schools fit in a niche between private and public schools. They are funded with public money (except for their facilities) and they are an alternative to regular public schools systems. A private group of people can submit and get approved a charter to run their own school. Charter schools receive waivers from public school districts in exchange for promising better academic results. Charters are usually given for 3-5 years, where an eye is kept on academic performance. If academic performance lags behind comparable public schools, then the “charter” is pulled and the school is closed.
So, if 3-5 years is not enough (per Manual’s administration), will we just keep throwing money at a charter school too? This district can’t even attract high quality teachers anymore because of the discipline problems in the classrooms and lower wages, yet the BOE wants to open a school for students interested in math/science/tech. Funny, not all 5th, 6th, and 7th graders know what they are interested in from one week to the next. Can’t wait to see the revolving door of “professionals” that come over to “teach”.
Manual is not a charter school. A charter school by law must offer a curriculum designed to “improve pupil learning by creating schools with high, rigorous standards for pupil performance.” Manual was a failing school prior its’ reorganization and according to Sharon, it offers a remedial high school education geared to the bulk of the population of students it serves.
Sharon, perhaps you did do the “numbers thing” in years prior, but from what I’ve seen, you tend to look at data yearly and say that everyone is similar without taking into account trends over time. That is where you can see the impact of Edison learning in our schools.
As for which school’s African-American children are more poor than others? That’s a conversation that, to me, has no merit. What in world does it matter if a school’s low income children are African-American or white or Latino? Along with that, are you really saying that because some kids who are poor might not be as poor as other children at other schools they will do better academically? That doesn’t pan out in the research at all. Low-income (whatever degree) tends to be associated with at-riskness, academically speaking, and the same criteria are used to identify low-income students district wide.
Jon said, “The district will not need as many teachers, won’t need the to provide the supplies and will very likely CLOSE a middle school and won’t have that building’s operating costs. Sure, in the short term, there will be some net cost as the district reacts to such changes. In the long term, it will be a savings because the charter is doing it at 90% of the cost.”
Two questions:
1. Short term: Where does District 150 get the money for those temporary net costs while the district “reacts”?
2. Long term: How can you be so sure that, even if the district makes the changes you outline, that there will be a net savings? Have you run the numbers?
When you’re dealing with averages and percentages, they don’t always translate into net savings when converted to hard dollars. It seems to me that there are a lot of variables, and I’m not convinced this is the financial boon to District 150 that you believe it is.
J.C. Friberg, my thoughts about the black population were irrelevant to our conversation–I was dredging up some arguments that were relevant in my earlier conversations when the number of black students at Northmoor was presented to me as an argument to show that Edison does better with the black population. I think we are saying the same thing–race has nothing to do with scores; research seems to indicate that poverty level does. I have looked at all the scores–not that many years since NCLB scores have been available. What I notice the most is that scores really don’t change that dramatically. For a given school, the scores go up and down within a 10 point range–which is an expected fluctuation since each year a different group of students is tested. Last year’s reading scores: Franklin 63.9, Northmoor 87, Charter Oak 91.2, Keller 87.9, HInes 81, Rolling Acres 78, Lindbergh 86.1, Roosevelt 80. Math scores: Franklin 86.3, Charter Oak 97.6, Hines 90.4, Kellar 95.5, Northmoor 93.2, Roosevelt 84.6, Lindbergh 90.5, Rolling Acres 85.1. Please tell me why I should consider the Edison program to be better–enough to justify $800,000 per year? I am curious as to how you came to believe that I look only at yearly numbers without paying attention to the numbers from previous years. I have found it interesting to compare 2003 with 2008, 2009–the point spread difference is not that great. I believe most of the schools stay within a certain range. Northmoor is one of the few whose scores, I believe, have gone up each year–but scores still are within a predictable range. And in the final analysis, I hate giving into making the NCLB scores the sole measuring stick for a school’s success or failure.
CJ, first let’s run thru the numbers in a little more detail (though still just my best guess based on the info available to me):
D150 has 13.3 students per certified staff per the most recent school report card. Take out 225 students on day 1 and you can eliminate 17 positions right away (yes, essentially middle school teachers who would otherwise be teaching those 225 students). D150 teachers make an average of $56k in salary. I don’t know what the fringe is (for health insurance, pension, etc.), but I’ll assume it’s 25% (that’s probably a low assumption but I want to be conservative), so that increases the average cost to $70,000. Multiply that by the 17 eliminated positions and you get about $1.2MM savings immediately.
Thus the initial net cost is no more than $500,000 ($1.7MM – $1.2MM). That’s very conservative. You would also save initially on transportation (225 less kids means less routes, less drivers, less gas, etc.) books and supplies, non-certified personnel such as clerks.
Until Illinois exacerbated its budget woes, the state used to reimburse school districts – something like 80% of the per pupil cost would be sent by the state to the district who started a charter the first year, 60% the second year and so on. School districts could actually “make” money initially. However, that funding dried up last year.
So, as to your #1, I think that is precisely why CAT is stepping up with their $500k match grant (to bring the total to $1MM – that would buy you a minimum of 2 years cushion in my conservative scenario). In other words, I think that money ultimately goes to D150 either directly, or by the charter school getting less than the $1.7MM (there are some legal requirements about what the minimum is that a charter can get – I believe 75% of the current average cost – thus why the monies might go thru the charter to the district)
As to #2, with D150 there is no certainty that they can manage their budget responsibly long term 🙂 Organizations face these issues all the time – growth and reduction. Good managers make those tough decisions throughout the process. Delay kills. Such as the delay to close schools in this district for the past few decades. With or without this charter school, more schools need to be consolidated. (and thus the operational savings from utilities, janitors, etc.)
Personally, I believe this district needs fewer but larger schools to operate effectively. That may not be the preference, but the simple fact is this district has way too much mobility – not only from average class sizes from one school to the next, but also also from one grade within a school to the next. And while larger schools may not seem like a preferable choice to many, I believe it can help to actually raise overall achievement. I believe most of the students in the 30% mobility are moving from one school to another WITHIN the district. That mobility has a direct impact on student’s learning. Larger schools will mean less mobility and higher scores. Larger schools also mean fewer class sizes that are too small to be financially efficient. But I digress – just take it as one way the district can try and meet the long term savings I suggest.
Sharon, the following is why trends over time are more important than a one time snapshot that you offer with your data…If you compare Franklin and Glen Oak, they’re very similar demographically…same with Charter Oak and Northmoor. Here goes…
Meets and Exceeds for ISAT from 2001/02:
Franklin Edison = 28%
Glen Oak = 32%
Northmoor-Edison = 62%
Charter Oak = 77%
Meets and Exceeds for ISAT from 08/09:
Franklin Edison = 70%
Glen Oak = 44%
Northmoor-Edison = 87%
Charter Oak = 90%
So, camparing schools of VERY similar composition over the same length of time, here’s what we see: Franklin increases by 42%, Glen Oak by 12%. Franklin-Edison increases by 25%, Charter Oak by 13%. The only measurable difference in these schools was the presence of Edison Learning. I consider these differences to be significant and due, in large part, to Edison’s presence @ Franklin and Northmoor.
And, for the record, I don’t like using ISAT scores to measure student achievement, either, but it’s what NCLB uses to judge schools, so we’re stuck with it for now, I guess.
JC Friberg: “are more poor than others” I understand this is not something you suggest IS relevant. BUT….
A couple of times you wrote “more poor”. Other than any grammatical problems with this expression, I found quite interesting that we could be shaping our discussions about funding around who is more poor or less poor than someone else. Poor is poor. Isn’t it? Or is there an objective criteria that states some poor aren’t really poor.
It seems to me… and this is just my opinion, that when Peoria Public School District 150 refers to “Poor” they mean “Black.” So, in our District there are poor Poor and there are not poor Poor. (The not poor Poor being less Poor than the poor Poor. )
That last is very fun to read out loud.
“Now when you pick a pawpaw
Or a prickly pear
And you prick a raw paw
Next time beware
Don’t pick the prickly pear by the paw
When you pick a pear
Try to use the claw
But you don’t need to use the claw
When you pick a pear of the big pawpaw”
The bare necessities of life will come to you !!!!!!!!!!
Jon, as long as you keep believing that the average class size in 150 is 13.3, your view of 150’s problems will be skewed. I currently have done the study of all high school classes in English, social studies, math, foreign language, science, and business. 38% of all these classes have over 25 students. Many are in the 20-24 range. There are electives, advanced courses (IB, AP) with smaller numbers–but some not nearly as small as you would think. The special ed population skews the averages–but you refuse to acknowledge that fact, so I’m glad you’re not planning the merging of Woodruff with Peoria High. Actually, I wonder how close to reality those planners are. Peoria High has 57 rooms–13 of them are special ed classrooms; 8 are Fine Arts classrooms.
J.C. Friberg–you are forgetting the “cherrypicking” angle–I believe it exists; you don’t, so we’ll just have to let it go at that. That is a matter of perception–or a very educated guess on my part. 🙂 As Jon stated earlier, even if cherrypicking doesn’t occur, Edison drew the children of parents who were motivated to apply, etc. Franklin’s reading AYP was 57.8 in 2003 and 63.9 in 2009–only once has Franklin made scores in the 70s–so I don’t get your contention of great strides for Franklin. To what “trends” were you referring with regard to Franklin? Math scores at all schools seem to be higher.
Sharon – Edison doesn’t just draw children of parents who are motivated to apply. The only families who need to “apply” are those who do not live within one of the Edison School’s boundaries. The application is actually just a registration form.
My question would be: how many of you have actually visited an Edison school?
I have a hard time understanding why Peoria has such a problem with the idea of school consolidations? It is basically a way of life in rural America. Example a close neighbor to Peoria is Farmington. Farmington High School now encompasses what used to be several surrounding districts that no longer had the enrollment they once had. Enrollment went down so it was decided it made more sense to consolidate. Sharon there is no longer a need for the number of facilities that the school is operating. Get over it. Some issues will have to be sorted out and the district might not end up with the best situation but these things happen. We get you have dug up the class sizes and in your opinion they are to large but at the same time you refuse to accept that sometimes the ideal is not always whats available.
Sharon, please quote for me where I said in my analysis above that class sizes are 13.3. I said pupil to certified staff ratio is 13.3. (quoting the district report card) so that INCLUDES special ed classes/teachers (and the charter anticipates providing spec ed services to its students). My analysis also accounts for prep periods, so the expected average class size would be higher than 13.3. When you keep quoting your average class sizes for the “standard” classes, you seem to ignore the spec ed students. You can choose to look at the data as a whole, or narrowly define it and ignore the 25% spec ed population. I’ve asked you this before, but you weren’t able to answer at the time. From all of your FOIA of the average class sizes, when you include special ed for those courses you requested (Eng, SS, etc.), what average class size did you get?
When I said I think the CHARTER will draw more motivated students/parents, that hardly applies to Edison. Northmoor has had a waiting list for years. The Edison programs serve the students in their boundaries first. Try again with that argument – don’t attribute it to me. You are comparing apples to oranges.
Also on the line of class size almost all the districts surrounding Peoria have a higher average class size then Peoria? I wonder how they do it?
what are stats on Richwoods ? I hear from students that it is crowded and grade averages have been pulled down ? because of influx ? How many attend?
How many students per class room?
Jon, when a teacher walks into a classroom alone (and there are few, if any, team teachers in high school), and sees 29 students, your teacher to pupil ratio doesn’t mean a darn thing. Why would you count prep periods? Do you want reality or do you want numbers that support your point of view. I am not ignoring special ed students–I told you that they take up 13 rooms at PHS, leaving only 33 rooms for basic and enriched classes. Special ed class sizes have absolutely nothing to do with class sizes in the regular classes. Manual is an exception. It has no special ed classes (or few, if any)–all their special ed students are mainstreamed. The special ed teachers do go into those rooms, so at Manual the student to teacher ratio is probably lower. However, I don’t think the special ed teachers are in every classroom every hour all hour. Forget the apples and oranges–I think we’re into onions now. 🙂
About Edison enrollment–am I incorrect in my belief that at the beginning all Franklin and Northmoor students were given the opportunity to opt out of Edison? Have the Edison schools become like Manual–“choice” in name only. I would assume that the students in Northmoor’s district are high achieving students (at least, they were before Edison). So if there is a waiting list at Northmoor, does that mean that the Northmoor attendance area students are taking up most of the seats? No wonder scores are high.
Jon, I didn’t include special ed classes in my averages–why should I–they aren’t in the classrooms that will be filled to capacity and over when the Woodruff students are added.
Stephen: My guess is that the area schools do not have a large special ed population. It is fairly obvious that averaging the small special ed classes with the larger regular classes will skew the averages to be unrealistically low. Stephen, the ideal in 150 is obviously not a high priority for you because you don’t have children that will be sitting in overcrowded classrooms. Will the charter school have classes of 29 students? I will truly be surprised if special ed students are enrolled at the charter school–I guess time will tell. When I heard the charter school hype (and pleas for money) on WMBD this morning, I didn’t hear anything about special ed students–lots of talk about advanced programs and students, etc. I guess they know that contributions would be low if the public thought they would be donating to the education of special ed students.
Jon said:
“Personally, I believe this district needs fewer but larger schools to operate effectively. That may not be the preference, but the simple fact is this district has way too much mobility – not only from average class sizes from one school to the next, but also also from one grade within a school to the next. And while larger schools may not seem like a preferable choice to many, I believe it can help to actually raise overall achievement. I believe most of the students in the 30% mobility are moving from one school to another WITHIN the district. That mobility has a direct impact on student’s learning. Larger schools will mean less mobility and higher scores. Larger schools also mean fewer class sizes that are too small to be financially efficient. But I digress – just take it as one way the district can try and meet the long term savings I suggest.”
You are absolutely correct about mobility being a key issue Jon. If the District goes forward with the Charter School, in conjunction with the community schools in the North Valley, East Bluff and far South end, I believe they will be well on their way to actually changing the current situation. The high rate of mobility more than likely plays into the discipline issue.
Sharon, my data reflect the total number of children meeting and exceeding standards on ISAT testing…
Emerge and Jon, you’re so right about mobility! I absolutely agree with you both on this issue. I read a piece of research once that says that every time a child moves from one school to the next (not talking about primary to middle, etc., but from school to school within one school year), they can lose 3-5 months of learning time, as students either regress or stagnate in the new environment. Having worked at several schools with higher mobility rates in D150, I know of many students that have been in 3-4 schools in one year.
Popijw. These are the numbers for all English, social studies, business, foreign language, math, and science (no special ed included).
Richwoods: For 239 classes the average is 22.
Peoria High: For 148 classes the average is 20.3.
The AP, enriched, and IB classes, and advanced electives account for the lower class sizes. I don’t know any way around this problem–unless the district wants to alienate all parents of high performing students by eliminating the offerings that attract a smaller number of students. Personally, I’m not seeing that merging Woodruff is going to help this situation all that much.
Emerge, you’re right about mobility being one of the drawbacks. An even bigger problem is attendance–do you think having schools farther away from home will help or hurt attendance.
“farther away from home”??
This is Peoria – not Chicago. The furthest away from home you can get in this City is 20 minutes – maybe 40 minutes in “rush hour” traffic.
About mobility: I thought that high school students do not have to change schools if they move in the middle of a semester (or year)–I am not sure of that, does anyone know 150’s policy? In my experience at Manual, students had all kinds of reasons for moving back and forth from one school to another. More often than not, it was the student’s choice to change schools–not necessarily a change in address (using wrong addresses is common practice). I can think of students that started the year at Manual, transferred to Woodruff or Peoria High, and came back to Manual before the end of the year. Mobility problems could be helped at the high school level if the district didn’t allow the students to move back and forth–stay put until the end of the year or semester.
Emerge, just asking–I don’t think attendance has much to do with distance, but attendance is a huge problem nonetheless–maybe getting to the bus on time is the problem. I differ with you about the 20 minutes; however. I believe that the freshman that I know (going from West Peoria to Richwoods) spends more than 20 minutes on a bus.
“Stephen, the ideal in 150 is obviously not a high priority for you because you don’t have children that will be sitting in overcrowded classrooms.”
It has nothing to do with priority. The city of Peoria and its tax payers can not afford to pay for the ideal. The situation is what it is. I am already paying into a system that I am getting nothing back for so I think that it should at least attempt to run in the black.
Stephen: I am, also, a taxpayer in District 150–and I have no children and have never had any children. If 150 taxpayers can’t afford to pay for the ideal, why are we paying for Edison, Johns Hopkins, and now a charter school? I’m all for getting rid of those “ideals.”
Sharon, if we are going to get rid of “ideals” such as Edison and John Hopkins, we have to throw in all of the others including Washington Gifted….wouldn’t that be included in your suggestion?
Carrie, I’m not entirely sold on pulling the best students out to go to special schools. When I realized that Washington Gifted was opened in the 1960s, I realized that it was undoubtedly a reaction to integration–just the same as was the opening of Richwoods High School. Considering how few minorities are at Washington Gifted, I am not that sold on it. I was happy that the African-American student in my life had the Washington Gifted opportunity because she thrived there–but an objective look at the school tells me that it may not be the best idea. Frankly, I think 150 should consider getting rid of all “choice” schools and go back to K-8 schools. Of course, if the discipline problems aren’t handled first (with an alternative school), then 150 will lose families with the plan that I have just proposed. Like it or not, discipline is the key–continue the current laxness with the rules and 150 doesn’t have a prayer of success.
So, Sharon, you think this BOE will approve the MST charter school but that the real problem is the lack of another alternative school? You know the old saying, if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em. Seriously. Emerge commenting here reminded me of something she suggested.
Since no one else is talking about an alternative school that many teachers seem to be calling for – create a charter school to do it instead (thank you, Emerge). But rather than just anybody leading this school – make it a school run by a committee of teachers. Free yourselves from D150 administration. Sharon, you may be retired, but so is Glen Barton and you can help lead the effort. And I promise, I won’t bring up the fact that you will be cherry-picking the students for that school. 🙂 Really, though, if your call to create another alternative school is for the benefit of D150 and if teachers should be more involved in school decision-making, why not pursue this option?
Jon, unlike you, I still want 150 to succeed; it may be a lost cause, but I’m not ready to throw in the towel yet. At 72, I won’t be leading any efforts. If 150 doesn’t recognize the need for an alternative school and a return to acceptable standards of student behavior, then 150 will fail–it already has, so it has to dig itself out of that hole first–I just hope there is still time for that turnaround. You are too funny, Jon–how would one “cherrypick” students for an alternative school if it is to serve those who cannot or will not adhere to behavioral standards in the regular schools? I assume that you believe that 150 already has an alternative school now–well, it serves so few students that it is useless. Close it and establish a real alternative school–and, no, I wouldn’t want it to be a charter school. I don’t have to worry about that–Caterpillar and the public aren’t going to kick in money to educate the students who would be placed in an alternative school–their interest is to provide a school for their own children and their friends’ children–not for the majority of 150 students. So why aren’t you arguing with the numbers for Richwoods and Peoria High? Can I assume that your silence means that you have finally understood my class size argument?
You reached a few wrong conclusions, Sharon 🙂 #1 being that I don’t want 150 to succeed, #2 being that I stopped discussing class size with you because I understood your argument (I do understand your argument, but feel you are only addressing part of the issue. Granted, you have moved your focus to the number of classrooms needed at Central – a worthy discussion but one that I haven’t addressed).
Isn’t the Knoxville Center for Student Success more like an alternative school?
Jon, class size at PHS and at all the schools that inherited or will inherit students because of the closing of Tyng, Kingman, etc., is my primary interest right now. I believe the part of the argument that you think I’m avoiding is the cost of small class sizes. The only way to solve that problem is to shut down the special ed classes and mainstream everyone and to eliminate the IB program and AP and some enriched classes (although the enriched classes have larger enrollments). I don’t regard those as “academic” solutions but they would relieve the financial burden. I hope that you will all soon stop calling the charter school a 150 school–it will only become 150’s responsibility again if it fails for whatever reason. The charter school is not solving any of 150’s problems (real or perceived). For next year, the charter school may solve the problems of about 200 families in Peoria–but it won’t solve 150’s problems; in fact, it will create problems in 150.
Carrie, I’m not sure about the school on Knoxville–it certainly isn’t alleviating the discipline problems in 150, so apparently it is serving some other function for too few students. A true alternative school will not be a “holding” place but a place where students can receive a non-traditional, alternative education.
Sharon said: “At 72, I won’t be leading any efforts.”
Are you not the front line of defense for the teachers? If you are not “leading the charge”, you are most certainly a contender.
Questions:
How many students do you think will need to be in this alternative school?
How should it be staffed?
Would there be social services offered to parents of students?
Will it just be for high school?
What would this school look like Sharon?
Emerge, I was about ready to stop this for today–but you ask some some good questions. By the way, I lead the charge from this computer–not out doing any hard labor. 🙂
How many students? As many as do not comply with the rules and/or fit into the traditional setting. I believe that the “threat with real teeth” of an alternative school will cause most young people to shape up in a big hurry. The others are probably the ones who truly do not have the capability of functioning in the traditional setting (and I am not considering them “throw aways,” rather I am hoping that the alternative setting will offer them a way to success that won’t ever come to them in the usual setting. The rules in an alternative school are strict–kids know that it is their last chance for public school education.
How would it be staffed: Certainly, not with forced transfers–as the district wanted to put into effect. More than any other school, this one should be staffed only with people who want to be there. I believe there are such people in the world–they just have to be recruited. Bob Michels, former Loucks teacher now at Columbia, worked at such a school before coming back to Peoria.
Social services, etc.–Many of these young people have serious psychological problems; they need in depth interventions. The alternative school should offer such services–hopefully there are funds available through local agencies, etc., to provide these services. This help is what is lacking now. Kids are suspended and expelled to spend time on the streets or in a current 150 alternative setting–nothing is done to try to change their behaviors–to help them; they just serve time waiting to return to school where they continue with the same behaviors.
Will it be just for high school: No, middle school, too. I would hope that more of the middle school students can be helped so that they can return to regular school, etc.
What will it look like: It will offer non-traditional courses (and the traditional)–mostly, it will not be a dumping ground; it will be a place where students can succeed. It can’t be just an afterthought–this school should require more planning, more experimentation, etc., than any other school–it should be state of the art. Terry Knapp has suggested Pekin’s idea. I agree with it for those students who are really close to graduation–that they just finish their course work online.