The first town hall meeting on the Peoria County public facility sales tax referendum took place Thursday night at Kickapoo Creek Winery. The event was sponsored by County Board members Carol Trumpe and Bob Baietto. Presenters were Jim Richerson for the museum group and Scott Sorrell for the County. Questions had to be written out ahead of time, so attendees weren’t allowed to verbalize the questions themselves. Everything was highly controlled.
The meeting is billed as informational, not advocating for or against passage of the referendum. But if Thursday’s meeting wasn’t advocacy, I sure don’t know what is. Richerson gave his pitch piece for the block and used phrases like “when [not “if”] the referendum passes.” Questions were answered by board members, Sorrell, Richerson, and Mark Johnson from Caterpillar. Obviously, Richerson and Johnson are for the referendum. No one who is against the referendum was allowed a place at the table. The county did not present any risks, cons, or critical information. Everything shared at the meeting was positive toward the referendum. Yet we’re expected to believe we’re hearing an unbiased and fact-based presentation.
In the back of the room was a table full of materials from the the pro-referendum advocacy group Friends of Build the Block, including a flyer that said flat-out, “Vote Yes.” No advance effort was made to contact the anti-referendum advocacy group Citizens for Responsible Spending and offer them a table for their materials.
So, we have an event at which only pro-referendum presenters are invited, only pro-referendum materials are provided, and passage of the referendum is only shown in a favorable light. There’s an old saying: “If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.” So if the event looks like advocacy and sounds like advocacy, guess what?
Did anyone fro Citizens for Responsible Spending contact anyone from the Town Hall Meeting beforehand and ask to be represented or display any flyers/brochures/informational packets? Also, what questions were asked and what were their answers, other than “when [not “if”] the referendum passes.”
In Edwards?
Couldn’t have they gotten their free booze some place closer to the “scene of the crime”?
i’m confused. if this is an informational town hall meeting held by the county board, why does it need ‘sponsorship’ from anybody? and why not hold it in a county facility?
follow the money. follow the money…
from the county site (note, ‘open to the general public and time WILL be reserved for questions and answers’)
Town Hall Meetings
Peoria County Board Members are hosting a series of town hall meetings in March to raise awareness of the sales tax referendum and educate their constituents on the financial impact of the referendum so voters can make an informed decision on April 7. Town hall meetings are open to the general public and time will be reserved for questions and answers. Please consider attending one of the following town hall meetings to learn more about the Peoria Riverfront Museum and the sales tax referendum.
March 5 @ 6:30 p.m.
Kickapoo Creek Winery, Edwards, IL
Hosted by Carol Trumpe (District 15) and Bob Baietto (District 12)
March 7 @ 9:00 a.m.
Farmers State Bank auxiliary building, Elmwood, IL
Hosted by Brad Harding (District 16)
March 9 @ 6:30 p.m.
Bradley University, Baker Hall Auditorium B51
Hosted by Andrew Rand (District 4) and James Dillon (District 7)
March 10 @ 6:30 p.m.
Neighborhood House, Matthew St, Peoria
Hosted by Bonnie Hester (District 1) & Lynn Pearson (District 3)
March 17 @ 6:30 p.m.
Dunlap Valley Middle School
Hosted by Brian Elsasser (District 14)
March 30, 7:00 – 9:00 p.m.
Woodrow Wilson Primary School
Hosted by Phil Salzer (District 8)
March 31 @ 6:30 p.m.
Friendship House, Madison St, Peoria
Hosted by Lynn Pearson (District 3) & Bonnie Hester (District 1)
Themis: I hope that this information will help to answer your questions.
Thursday – Jan. 29, 2009
Alms sends email to PCBM Andrew Rand (Rand) and cc: PCBM Merle Widmer (Widmer)
Subject: Town Meeting Representation
Andrew:
I had sent an email to Patrick Urich about the opposition side having a place at the table for the scheduled Town Meeting. I believe that it would be more appropriate to contact you about this possibility.
So, would there be a place at the table to have representation for the opposing viewpoint to the sales tax increase?
Thank you for your timely response.
Cordially, Karrie
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Thursday – Jan. 29, 2009
Rand sends reply email to Alms and cc: Widmer and Urich
Karrie,
Thank you for your inquiry. My intention is not to sponsor, nor promote a debate. Thus, I will not have a table for the opposition, and I will explain why in a moment. My objective is to inform my constituents (and Mr. Dillon his…) of the Museum Project and accordingly I will invite two fact-oriented presentations. First, information from the Museum collaboration (Mr. Richerson, etc.) about the project per se’ and second, for the County leadership team (Mr. Bush and Mr. Sorrell) will discuss the public financing subject as a referendum matter for the April 7 ballot.
While your point of view does pose some intrigue, perhaps I can now explain why I decided to respectfully decline your offer. I am very, very active in the neighborhoods of the County’s 4th District and for that matter much of the city of Peoria. I personally know of, and expect in attendance many of my constituents that will have some very, very tough questions for both parties. The County 4th is home to many professors, nurses, lab workers, electricians, plumbers, teachers, doctors, trades persons, municipal workers, retirees and even students. Believe me, these constituents are all very capable of representing the distinct points of view on this subject.
The West Bluff, Sterling Park and Hamilton Park neighborhods are very well informed, and active voters and I hope you can respect their desire to educate themselves without a big fuss. We respectfully don’t do it that way here. It was good to see you Tuesday and I thank you for your inquiry.
Respectfully,
Andrew A. Rand
Peoria County Board
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I did not ask for a debate. I did ask ‘would there be a place at the table to have representation for the opposing viewpoint to the sales tax increase?’
No opportunity for anyone to present, as Paul Harvery would say, ‘the rest of the story.’ (ie: Balanced information dissemination.)
Need to decide if and how to get information out to Peoria County taxpayers. Many decisions to be made to be most effective in 10 week time frame before April 7th with limited funding. Website decided as a way for central ‘free’ access of information for as many Peoria County taxpayers and anyone else who wanted to be informed. Even if you do not have a computer, you can go to a public library and have a librarian help to get you to CFRS’ website. If there was any reason to believe that we would be raising or spending money in excess of $3,000 we would need to organize as a local political committee. Now, approaching that funding level which will result in various reports to be filed with SBOE and Peoria County Clerk.
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Thursday – February 26, 2009
Citizens for Responsible Spending holds press conference.
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Friday – February 27, 2009
Peoria County Jenny Zinkel, asks if Peoria County can put links to both sides to help the citizens to be informed. Would a ‘yes’ decision in any manner constitute a violation of state statute — election interference or some other state and/or federal statute (case(s) of unintended consequences)? (Additional emails regarding Peoria County website link requests. )
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Thursday – March 5, 2009 — Jenny Zinkel at the first Town Hall Meeting at Kickapoo Creek Winergy, asked me if CFRS had many any decision about the Peoria County Website linkage to both groups for the referendum. I explained as stated above. Jenny then said that there was a table for us to hand out information. I told Jenny that that was the first time that I had heard of that option and we had not brought any materials. There were handouts for BTB and Friends of BTB on a separate table — stated as a matter of fact not as a critical remark. It was simply an oversight and Jenny has already sent an email of apology. Thanks Jenny ! 🙂
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Many taxpayers have asked me ……
If you (as an individual or a group or a local political committee) are not allowed to give a fact-oriented presentation for the opposing viewpoint at the Town Hall meetings then why would Peoria County now want to give your group a link on the Peoria County website and/or a table to handout political information?
We have sent emails to and received emails from Peoria County regarding this topic. The answers are as clear as mud.
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Hope that helps to answer your questions and provides context. If you have more questions — you can post here or please visit our website at http://www.nomuseumtax.org or send CFRS questions to nomuseumtax@yahoo.com or send a donation to CFRS P.O. Box 641, Peoria, IL 61652-0641! 🙂
Thank you for the dialogue! 🙂
In addition to what Karrie said, Themis, there were numerous questions asked. The problem was not the questions, but the answers. By only having one side of the issue officially represented, the answers were always favorable to the museum/referendum.
I’ll give you an example. One person asked a question about the safety of this proposed museum, since it’s going to be downtown and many people are concerned about safety down there already. Richerson naturally answered that the museum design is very safe. But that’s not a fact. It’s his judgment of the design. There are many who would look at that design and judge it to be quite unsafe. There are no windows, no natural surveillance, street parking is being removed from the plan so there will be no buffer between pedestrian and traffic, etc. None of these objections could be raised or voiced due to the format and the exclusion of anyone who could provide a counterargument. All the attendees heard was how safe it’s going to be, according to pro-sales-tax-hike Richerson.
There’s a word that describes this… what is it? Oh yeah — “advocacy.”
On March 19, 2009 at the West Peoria Residents’s Association meeting the speaker will be Ms. Kathleen Woight, Lakeview Museum. I assume she is “pro” the museum, right? I doubt that there will be a very large turnout, so few votes will be swayed one way or the other.
In addition to his participation in the VanAuken booze-a-thon escapades, this Rand fellow seems to be quite the a$$. If he believes his constituents to be so well informed than why the need for the town hall meeting in the first place. Maybe because respectfully in the county 4th its my way or the highway. What a joke of a public servant.
Andrew A. Rand:
“My intention is not to sponsor, nor promote a debate.
My objective is to inform my constituents”
Inform of them of what? One side of the issue? How is that informing anyone of anything?
UNBELIEVABLE. “these constituents are all very capable of representing the distinct points of view on this subject” Are you kidding me? Let me stuff you full of one sided advocacy on this issue and then see who is willing to challenge it.
So… just show up and present the opposing view point during the Q&A portion…. hopefully there is a Q&A portion.
I sat we take these bastards out the wood and toss them ino the wood chipper
I can’t believe I am saying this, but… I completely agree with kcdad
I hope people are taking notes on who to vote against in the next County Board election. These arrogant a$$$ should be shown the door. This kind of an “informational meeting” comes right out of the old Soviet Union. Let’s just call a spade a spade, these people are not respecting our form of government.
Dr. Thompson:
Please remember the other meetings … where CItizens for Responsible Spending (CFRS) will be able to give a presentation and respond to questions.
March 16 @ 5:30 p.m.
AMT – Advanced Medical Transport – approximate corner of Sterling & Nebraska
Hosted by Neighborhood Alliance
March 23 @ 7:00 p.m.
Lakeview Library
Hosted by CFRS — Fact Finding Forum
March 26 @ 7:00 p.m.
Lakeview Library
Hosted by CFRS — Fact Finding Forum
Thank you for posting the meetings!
The real shame here is that a project, which could have and should have stood on its OWN merits…has been reduced…………………. to this.
Should all Hell freeze over, and the sales tax pass, what will the REAL “legacy” of its organizing group be?
Sharon,
Kathleen Woight is pro-museum because she works for Lakeview [as does Mr. Jimbo]. What else would they be?
Can we please sue someone now?!?
I have a couple of questions for the creators of the nomuseumtax website:
1. Why is there no mention of the amount of the tax anywhere on the site? It would seem that if transparency is a concern, it would be mentioned at least once.
2. Mention is made on the site of the effect of businesses made by the tax. Do people really think that visitors would stay in East Peoria instead of Peoria because of a tax of a quarter for every 100 dollars?
CJ, I notice on another blog you responded by saying it was on the front page.
I don’t see it. Is there somewhere else I should look besides nomuseumtax.org?
I stand corrected. I must be blind.
When is Merle Widmer hosting a Town Hall meeting? He also is a County Board member.
11Bravo… time to buy a new pair of skates for hell…
I appreciate you agreeing with publicly.
“If the referendum fails, we will begin the process of returning the former Sears property to the city of Peoria and abandon our financial interest in development on the property. We want to be clear: This means a Caterpillar Visitor Center would not be built.”
OOOOhhhhhhhh……….That’s it, I’m voting yes.
yea, it will be so much better to have that hole in the ground for another ten years.
Some of you people make me want to move from this town, and I don’t just mean accross the river. You are only happy if things fail.
Bill, Bill,
Lets spend MILLIONS of dollars now, and MILLIONS of [your] dollars later, just to fill in the ‘hole’. Makes sense……………………
How much of your life did you spend in a Turkish prison?
Its not a question of our wanting it to fail. We don’t want it to fail, but we feel that this is not the right time, nor the right way to go about making this project happen. And who says that the sinkhole will remain there forever. Is a museum the only thing that can possibly be there? Can’t we get a bit more creative with our thinking and raising funds to get something else in there if the museum tax referendum doesn’t pass. Why are we so stuck on having this museum on that particular place? There are many other projects that would bring people to the downtown area and would increase our revenue that have nothing to do with the museum. And if we lose CAT’s visitor center so what? We’ve lived without it all this time. If they really want to build one they will buy the block and build it themselves. They certainly can afford it. We have got to stand up and look at this with some common sense and quit following the tax mongers like a herd of sheep. I’m sick and tired of being taxed to death. I bought lunch at a drive through the other day and the bill was $7.66 and .75 cents of it was TAX. This is ridiculous.
How much could it possible cost to put a park in there? How much to put some plumbing in for bathrooms? How much to put in some slabs for the lunch carts or garage sales? How much for some tables and benches….?
I tell you what… give me 47 million dollars (or just 14 million… ok ok I’ll do it for 6, but you have to waive all the graft and payoff requirements to the city officials) and I will fix that space up right and put a cardboard river exhibit on the South and West sides to block the wind.
Of course, SD if the new sales tax passes, your new lunch cost would be 7.68, rounded up.
Which at a lunch every day a year is an extra $7.30 (rounding the extra 1.71 cents up to 2 cents, if we don’t round that’s $6.30). Over a year. And that’s ONLY if you buy all your lunches out, never using food bought at the grocery store.
Martin,
I’ll be speaking and answering questions with facts at the Mar 23 and Mar 26 7:00 PM meetings at Lakeview Library.
I am in 100% support of CFRS.
Thanks, Martin
Scott A: That is for the food portion. The rest of the sales tax on clothes, computers, furniture, alcohol and so on…. It must amount to a large money pot otherwise no one would be asking for it.
A little here and a little there, that is exactly why some people have purchased too much house or too much car or …. It is always marketed as something small. Not $3M plus (for the bond payment plus possible surplus sales tax) per year, rather $17 per Peoria County resident per year whether you are one day or ninety-nine years young.
Go to talk with a salesman who is trying to talk you into something you want but don’t need and may not even be able to afford. It is not about the total cost — just about how you can afford the small monthly payment. After all, you qualify for the loan. And you deserve the item, don’t you? This is one case where you can avoid ‘buyer’s remorse’!
Just vote NO on April 7th!
Ms. Alms,
We could also put it this way. If you were given aid in the form of $17 dollars per year per person, would you consider that a big help or a small one?
Scott A.
Scott A,
And if the ‘cost’ of this project begins to escalate over the years…?
A “little” can turn into a lot quickly. How much are YOU willing to spend to keep the museum operating over the years?
I forgot,
It will take some time before we see any type of economic recovery [my expert analysis on the subject].
I would guess that corporate AND private donors are going to start running for cover. I would think that CAT, considering the layoffs, etc is having a difficult time justifying the millions they are spending on the visitors center/museum…..
Must be a real kick in the PR pants!
the tax would not start until Jan 2010 with construction starting summer 2010 and take about two years. I think the ecomony will be on the rebound by then.
Vote Yes!
Scott A:
$17 per person is a relative amount. Please let me explain — on Saturday at the Elmwood Town Hall Meeting. One attendee said that $17 per year was one cup of coffee per day for a year. Another attendee said that $17 per year was one pair of shoes for his children. His income is modest. Proposed increases for Ameren, state income tax, and another other taxes coupled with increases in other budget areas are hardest for those of lower income levels to absorb.
$17 per person per year for 20 years is $340. If one does not support the proposed project — that even a penny would be a waste of money.
bill h — that is an interesting comment. At the same Elmwood Meeting, Mr. Richerson said that if the referendum passes, the museum will begin construction in the 3rd or 4th quarter of 2009.
Saturday the audience was told that Woodford and Tazewell Counties had been approached for money and the museum group was still working on that possibility. I was allowed to make a comment by PCBM Brad Harding and I shared my research. Having personally talked with Mr. Zimmerman, Tazewell County Board Chairman who has told me that that board has not been approached. Also, please remember that Peoria has different requirements for contracts than Tazewell and Woodford Counties and since the museum is in Peoria County — how would Tazewell and Woodford Counties be able to participate? All great questions. Tonight at Baker Hall, Mr. McMillan said that neither county had been approached for any type of funding.
Same question, different responses to different audiences.
NV:
2005 it was 2 cent dedicated museum tax for $6M over 12 years — $500K per year with $250K for exhibits and $250K for the endowment fund for operating expenses. $7 per year.
2007 it was $24M from PBC which would have raised the county property tax rate .07 which would have gone against the county policy of not raising tax rates.
2009 it is $40M and the answer tonight was an approximate more than .07 increase and probably almost double to .14 — the exact answer to this and all questions asked to date will be posted to the Peoria County Website in approximately one week from tomorrow. I agree the price keeps going up.
One taxpayer tonight commented that it was too bad that it was all or nothing. Another shared that the CAT side looked good but it was the museum that that gave that taxpayer concern. Lakeview’s current attendance is 110,000 visitors. This number was explained to be anyone that comes through the doors. Additionally the new museum will retain the current 110,000 visitors plus 125,000 IMAX visitors per Kathleen Woith. Not all visitors are paying.
Another taxpayer expressed disappointment that it was a sales pitch and that she had come for facts. She did not feel that facts had been presented and that an emotional presentation appealing to her children and grandchildren did not cut it.
Gary Sandberg asked some financial questions and they were not answered.
Safety concerns at the riverfront — response was that they were unaware of safety concerns at the riverfront.
Again, we are not against musuems. We are against this museum plan and this type of funding. Still voting NO.
It was asked this evening if the Museum Group had looked at the failure rate of iMax theatres. With additional followup about concerning the viability of iMax as a corporation and whether it was sound to be so dependent upon iMax for projected revenues.
The reply was they had not, nor spent any time checking into iMax’s business history.
So… what do we know? Well iMax is a publicly traded company. In 2006, they lost money. In 2007, they lost money. Up through their 3rd quarter, 2008, was looking like a modest profit, but 4th quarter and full year earnings are due this Thursday. My prediction is that 2008 is going to be a loser too. Reading their annual reports, iMax is up to their ears in debt, fully acknowledging they are heavily leveraged and very dependent on credit markets to go forward. That isn’t a good position to be in these days. It calls into question the long term viability of iMax as a business partner on the museum project.
About that failure rate. Behold the power of the Internet:
Closed ones: http://www.lfexaminer.com/theaclosed.htm
Opened ones: http://www.lfexaminer.com/theaUSA.htm
Imax cites their trade as being “highly volatile”
Imax would be nice. I have been to Imax’s on several occasions. To develop a projected budget (which I have a copy of) that has the Peoria Regional Museum dependent on $1.284 million in ‘highly volatile’ iMax revenues in order to be sustaining, seem reckless.
The museum group was asked if the museum could sustain itself without an Imax. They didn’t answer…. their projected budget says to me, no they cannot.
I also liked how the museum group went to lengths to say how they met on many many occasions with the Heart of Peoria Commission. Implicitly suggesting that they had the HoPCs approval. I believe CJ, you had mentioned at another meeting, that the HoPC had actually voted, in their advisory capacity, their DISAPPROVAL of the current design. Correct?
BTW… this is being pitched as a ‘Stimulus’ package now.
Ms. Alms, you still haven’t my question.
I understand that 17 a year (or 4.7 cents a day, not sure where your source is buying his or her coffee) is relative.
Still, would you feel that a 17 dollars a year would be enough aid for someone on a limited income? Or would you feel that low of a gesture would be ridiculous.
Correct.
Scott A,
Waiting for you to make your point is driving me crazy. We are not talking about supporting someone on a “limited income” for pennies a day!
We are talking about a museum project that has been poorly managed from its conception. We are talking about Peoria’s history [which has been poorly managed since…forever?]. Your idea that the tax per individual is minute does not hold up. We are talking about a county wide tax, producing a significant amount of revenue; revenue that I am sure Peoria County residents can find a much better way to spend.
Now, that argument I can understand, New Voice. While I disagree, that point makes logical sense.
My point is that the arguments that
A: Any increase in taxes is horrible and hurts families
B: That a quarter extra for every dollar spent will make people shop and stay in hotels in East Peoria
is absolutely ridiculous.
extra quarter for every $100 spent, not every $1.00- big, big difference!
Jake,
You are correct…on paper that is a BIG difference. There is far more than just money/tax to consider here. I am going out on a limb here, but I would argue that the amount of the tax is somewhat irrelevant.
For YEARS this project has been mismanaged. The ‘Museum Group’ failed to develop a viable plan…all the way around! The inability of the MG to ‘bring the public onboard,’ should have been a major concern of theirs from the beginning.
Now, I believe the ‘public’ is as upset about the wasted years/effort and the big hole in the ground………… as they are about a new tax.
If I was a member of the Lakeview board and/or Museum Group, I would request a refund of every penny I spent on useless studies, polls and consulting firms.
See what I mean?
as of 2007, Peoria County poopulation was 182,993, of which approximately 113,000 lived within Peoria city limits.
182,993 x $17 = $3,110,881.
113,000 x $17 = $1,921,000.
That leaves the non-Peoria City residents paying $1,189,881 of the museum tax.
Now I don’t think $17 dollars a year is not too much for, let’s say, food or electricity… maybe not even too much for a Peoria Journal Star subscription. But for a Museum? I would be willing to $25 or even $30 for that.
The problem, of course, is that what we are buying is not a museum at all, but a giant boondoggle with The Peoria Historical Society’s self-aggrandizing grimy fingerprints all over it.
Scott A:
Frugal Frannie saves and/or wisely spends $17 while Sprendthrift Sara fritters her $17 on her whim of the day. Two ends of a spectrum with a lot of variation in the middle section.
Case in point — At the Elmwood Town Hall Meeting — one lady said that the $17 was one cup of coffee a day for her. Another man at the same meeting said that $17 was a pair of shoes for one of his children because he had modest means.
$17 is a lot if you really need it for an essential — food, shelter, medicine, water, heat or electric utilities. Period.
Scott A: You also wrote ….
My point is that the arguments that
A: Any increase in taxes is horrible and hurts families
B: That a quarter extra for every dollar spent will make people shop and stay in hotels in East Peoria is absolutely ridiculous.
My answers to your points…
A: Tax increases have more impact on people with modest incomes. They have less ability to absorb the impact. Low income, fixed income, even modest income just means less to live on.
If the 1/4% was a stand alone tax, as in the only tax, then perhaps your argument that the tax increase is not horrible. Nevertheless, if a taxpayer does not like the targeted project for the 1/4% tax, then the increase would be deemed horrible.
Couple the 1/4% increase on the back of other sales taxes and then the amount keeps increasing and the might be spent for horrible projects. Then combine the debt service for the community in which you live and the hairs on the back of your neck might start to rise. I sat next to a taxpayer at the Bradley – Baker Hall Town Hall Meeting the other night and he said that the current debt load of various governmental agencies in our area is greater than $600M that is prior to the sales tax for the museum, prior to the estimated $150-300M cost for the CSO project and that $600M figure is without the debt service (aka interest).
We cannot spend our way to prosperity.
B: My son took me out to lunch at Flat Top Grill. 10% tax. I took my son out to Culver’s in East Peoria for ice cream. 8% tax. That is a 2% tax difference add on the 1/4% now it is a 2 1/4% tax difference.
I had occassion to talk to some union laborers the other day. I asked about the museum and using 1/4% tax to create jobs for the unions. Okay if you want to vote for it. We live in Woodford, we spend our $ in Woodford. Your city should work on getting grocery stores and fixing the streets not building museums.
Citizens for Responsible Spending has received emails and correspondence. One example. Taxpayer lives halfway between LaSalle Peru and Peoria. Taxpayer has come to Peoria all these years. Sax tax is less in LaSalle. Raise it another 1/4% and that will end the trips to Peoria. The straw which broke the camel’s back.
So, yes, $17 of aid is inportant to the person who needs it. Still voting NO on April 7.
Thank you for the dialogue.
Friends of Build the Block has filed their contributions disclosure with the State Board of Elections. It looks like the most of the Block’s friends are labor unions and CAT. I am a little surprised; I thought there would be more actual people, along the lines of Libraries for All.
Bean, yeah I went and looked at the list too. Not many, if any parties there, without a direct vital interest in the project.
Can’t link to the list directly but here (choose committee tab): http://www.elections.state.il.us/CampaignDisclosure/ContribListSearches.aspx
This is the way things should be, get off what we are on now