Dr. Cindy Fischer spoke at the Uplands Residential Association meeting Thursday night, November 12. She had been invited by Uplands resident Jennifer Brady to talk about the Peoria Charter School Initiative. Her presentation was similar to the one given at the Civic Center, except that there were no representatives of the Chicago Math and Science Academy (CMSA) in attendance.
According to Dr. Fischer’s presentation, the charter school as proposed would have roughly the same demographics as the rest of District 150. Their plan is to recruit students from all parts of District 150, including the most impoverished areas. They’re committed to maintaining diversity. This was interesting to me because the district has long maintained that poverty is a root cause of low achievement. So I wondered why, given the same demographic makeup, the charter school promised to deliver such high performance. Dr. Fischer explained that the charter school would get better results because of the “best practices” that would be implemented and various other components of their program, such as a longer school day, higher teacher accountability, etc.
That all sounds great, but why isn’t District 150 doing that already? Dr. Fischer is not an outsider to District 150. She was in central administration. In fact, she was an Associate Superintendent. She was in a position of major influence. So, why didn’t she implement these “best practices” and other components when she was there? Are the practices only legal for charter schools to implement? Was she unable to enact changes because of resistance from others? Or did she only learn about these practices after retiring from the district?
I asked her those questions Thursday night. She explained that, in her position as Associate Superintendent, she wasn’t over curriculum and instruction for middle and high schools. She was over “everything else” — things like early childhood education, safety, etc. So she in fact wasn’t in a position to implement the kinds of reforms being discussed.
She also said that when she first came to the central administration building, she was ready to go in and make changes, but found that it wasn’t as easy as she thought it would be to make reforms. She said District 150 is “like a big ship,” and “before you can turn a big ship, you have to slow it down.” In keeping with that metaphor, she explained that she spent most of her time just trying to “slow down the ship” so reforms could be made.
Finally, Dr. Fischer explained that the proposed “best practices” are easier to implement in a charter school because you are “starting from scratch.” Since you’re building a new school from the ground up, you don’t have to change an existing culture. You can establish the kind of learning and working culture you want from the outset.
I have to say, Dr. Fischer was a very impressive speaker. My question didn’t rattle her at all. She didn’t sound or appear defensive in answering it, but spoke as professionally and engagingly as she had the rest of the evening. She also expertly avoided saying anything negative about District 150 teachers, union, administrative staff, etc., even as she spoke about the district’s low achievement scores. The board of directors made an excellent decision in appointing her the public face of the Peoria Charter School Initiative.
Sharon states,”Material to be presented doesn’t change that often–and the whole purpose of NCLB is to be sure that all students learn the same things–which doesn’t leave room for all this innovation that some of you are advocating.”
I am the one that will stand up and say that teachers need to adapt their lesson plans to the changing needs of students and societies. You can use the same basic lesson plan, yet adapt it to make it more meaningful to the students you currently teach. The students you teach this year do not have the same background, wants, needs, and desires as your students from even last year. There are definitely good teachers who are fantastic at reaching the students where they are that specific day. There are definitely teachers that regurgitate lesson plans without even considering adaptations. I have had good fortune to have to deal with a lot of the good and the misfortune to deal with a few of the bad, as a parent. I can witness it firsthand as a substitute teacher, as well. I have been classes where the students know they are going to be met where they are and those are classes that are innovative, energetic, and motivated. I have, also, been in rooms where the students are so disenfranchised that just taking attendance is a chore.
Sharon also states, “experienced teachers are often a tremendous asset to a school–providing continuity and longstanding relationships with students, families, and community members.” Yes, they are an asset to those places but they can be just as detrimental. Many people who leave the public schools for private schools will tell you that it isn’t just the poor decision-making of the district as a whole that cause them to leave. They also leave because they see no changes in curriculum and its instruction to better prepare students for the world in which they live. Many other public school districts, along with private schools, have discovered how to integrate students, families, communities, and societies with classes tailored to those needs.
Just curious, bam, but, as a teacher, would the absence of a teacher’s union/tenure affect your decision to work at a charter school, one way or the other? Do you see any potential benefits, as a teacher, of being a part of the proposed charter school?
Jon, as a new teacher with no experience except for subbing and student teaching, I would welcome the chance to teach at the new charter school. First, it puts me on semi-equal footing with other potential teachers. I don’t have to compete with the response,”Well, I’d like to hire you but I have to hire Jane Doe because she is a member of the union and has to be hired back first.”
As for benefits, I see being allowed a little more latitude in teaching methods and use of community resources. They will be looking for ingenuity and enthusiasm and, quite, frankly, that will come from teachers that haven’t been teaching for 10+ years. That isn’t to say that all teachers become stagnant at that point, it just appears that way to parents and students.
I’m running short on time so I hope that semi-answers your questions.
BAM: I wish that I had had your confidence in my youth getting ready to face a classroom of young people for the first time. I never recall having the feeling that I was superior to my colleagues in any way. Of course, I was lucky. I started my teaching career at Roosevelt Jr. High, where the older faculty members were so very gracious and helpful–they truly took us young teachers under their wings and nurtured us–they wanted us to succeed. I will always be grateful to those older teachers and just as grateful to the younger Manual teachers who accepted me as something other than an old woman ready to put out to pasture. One thing I will say with regard to “meeting the students where they are:” How you present the material isn’t nearly as important as how you present yourself. I cringe every time I hear Sharon Kherat say, “Students don’t care what you know until they know you care.” I hate it because she is using it as a club over her teachers’ heads (to some extent saying “I know that you don’t care, so I’m telling you that you have to care”)–also, as an excuse not to discipline students who need that structure, etc. However, I very much believe that kids do respond to teachers (no matter what their methods, etc.) if they perceive that the teacher has their best interests at heart.
Jon–Wherever have you been? Just in time to bash tenured teachers–I’m out here all alone–teachers are too busy teaching to be on blogs. BAM–I just have to ask this question: Do you plan to teach only 10 years and then quit so that no one will perceive you as too old and stagnant to be in a classroom? I shouldn’t say this (but can’t resist), but you do realize you’re getting a late start, so students might perceive you as old right off the bat. At least, my students thought I was old at 40 (not in a negative way, just as an observation). Now when I run into them, they are often kind enough to say, “Miss Crews, you haven’t changed a bit.” To which I replay, “Yes, that’s because you thought I was 80 when I was 40.”
BAM, I’m having a hard time following your “logic”–so when you finally get a job and have taught for 3 years (before tenure kicks in), will you feel OK with some fresh-out-of-college student being chosen over you because he/she is younger and more vibrant, etc–or because someone else is a friend of the principal’s, etc.? I really want to hear your perspective on teaching after you’ve been in the classroom for five years. I probably won’t be able to see the blogs by then though. At Grandparents’ Day, Jeff’s son brought a book to me (from Whittier’s book fair) and said, “Sharon, you’ll like this; it has big print.”
Wow, Sharon – “just in time to bash tenured teachers” ?!?! Really???
Though I must say, I do like the way you regale some of us with such stories as “if the principal called me to meet with him–I took a union rep (friend actually) with me. Several of us did that because we wanted a witness to anything that might be said at such meetings.” 🙂
That charter school concept is sounding better and better!
The job market is competitive maybe making teaching more competitive would weed out some of the staff that do not carry their weight. This whole thing about principles hiring their friends and me being naive is just another example of how rediculous public schools have become and why they are not competitive with private or international education standards. Principles, teachers, super intendents the whole mess are not being required to actually do their jobs. 150 needs more money, needs more facilities, needs more support well maybe when there are visible results the community would be more willing to invest. Public schools are not producing so why should we as a community be forced to provide?
Sharon I do think that some young out of college vibrant teacher should get the job if they have a better resume and interview better. Thats how the world works. You dont just get to sit in a job you have to keep it by showing that you are always the best candidate for it. Hold teaching to the same standard as every other career.
“I’m out here all alone–teachers are too busy teaching to be on blogs.”
Everyone does things at work outside of a paid 8 hour day, err wait in a teachers case a 6 hour day, trust me. That is another mind blowing thing for me. Teachers constantly complaining about all this outside the classroom time they spend. WAKE UP everyone does that for their job but unlike a teacher I dont get a nice 3 month vacation at the end of it every year. Teachers dont get paid enough either right? What was your last years pay as a teacher Sharon? Was it comparable to what you could have made in a different career field with the same qualifications? What is starting pay right now? You’ll find its competitive, considering the requirements to actually teach, and you get benifits and retirement.
Jon: I knew I shouldn’t have told that story (I can only imagine how it sounds to someone who wasn’t there). Those were some rather weird, not typical, moments. Yerly, I have no complaints about my career (all 43 years of it). Apparently, you do, however. 🙂 I have no complaints about all the hours I worked when I came home at night and on weekends (that was all by choice; the job demanded it, but I did it gladly). Now and then I even miss grading papers. You missed the post when I gave my salary for every year of the 43 years that I taught–so I won’t drag that out again. I have never felt it necessary to justify myself as a teacher and never felt guilty for the money that I earned–in fact, I am grateful for all the rewards of teaching. I think teaching in the public schools is becoming far more difficult–I hope the rewards are still there (those intrinsic ones). I had my chance in the private sector–I originally thought I was going to be a secretary for my whole life–and at the time when I quit at Caterpillar, secretaries (experienced) without a college degree were making more than teachers. However, I didn’t find that world to be very satisfying. Perhaps the contrast made me enjoy teaching all the more. I am sorry that you have such a negative view of the teaching field–your experiences must have been horrendous. I don’t think there is a long line of people waiting for jobs in the public schools right now. This year at Manual 5 teachers have walked out so far this year. I believe that three of them were first-year teachers (and I’m not criticizing them for leaving; they were at the point in their careers when they could afford that choice). I am not astounded by your attitudes–they seem to be prevalent. I have young friends who are teachers. Well, relatively young–BAM just set the bar rather “low”–she seems to think that teachers are washed up aftrer ten years–then there really would be a teacher shortage. I just want them to have the good experiences that I had–certainly, they can’t count on much public support, so I hope their students love them.
I used 10 years as a starting number. Yerly has it right though. If you want to keep teaching then you should be able to prove that you deserve to keep it rather than lose your position to a “younger,” newer teacher. If, in 10 years, I have lost touch with what the real world wants from my students when they graduate and, likewise, am unable to give them that edge, then I should not be teaching. My job, as a teacher, is to prepare my students for the world outside the institutional building we call a school. That preparation can be for a job in the workforce or for college. The choice is theirs to make but it is up to me to prepare them for the choice they make for their life.
I now that you think I am being unrealistic Sharon and that is OK with me. That is what separates me from other teachers. I am fully prepared to give up teaching if I can no longer do what I am being called to do—and I do believe that teaching is a calling. Even ministers sometimes fall out of their calling. All professions have that possibility.
I guess I’m going to have to give “you” all my term paper instructions. Don’t use the word “you” in your term papers. Students used to tell me (the “you” because I was the reader) to do all kinds of things–such as “When you put on your suit of armor….” BAM, I no longer want to keep teaching, so I don’t have to prove anything. 🙂 No, BAM, you’re not being unrealistic–I believed that teaching was a calling–that is exactly how I viewed it. However, I would advise against making such pronouncements about being willing to give up in x number of years, etc., and setting yourself above those with whom you might soon be teaching. I am sorry–now I’m being sarcastic: What sets you apart from other teachers right now is that you aren’t one yet. You can sub and find out all kinds of things that are wrong with the teachers in whose room you find yourself–I probably did that, too (secretly) when asked to sub for my colleagues. It’s easy to see the forest when you aren’t one of the trees.
BAM–That debate became a bit ridiculous on my part–arguing for the sake of arguing. I do hope you have a great Thanksgiving. I have no doubt that you will be a great teacher. I truly do believe that you will find that you will not be the only dedicated teacher in whatever building you end up. 150’s problems have a way of clouding the vision of the great things that happen in 150 classrooms every day. You and I differ in that I put more of the blame on societal problems and administrators too long out of the classroom–you seem to feel teachers are more at fault–or maybe you believe they can be the solution (I believe they truly do often “save the day”). I believe it will take cooperation, but I don’t know how to get there. How close are you to being ready for a full-time teaching job? What is your subject area? I suppose the closing of Woodruff does complicate the issue and hence the fact that high school jobs will be hard to come by because the tenured teachers will be placed first. Bad for you; good for them. So I understand your anxiety and desire to get into the classroom.
Sharon – Unfair labor practice charges and grievances cost a school district in terms of the administrative costs and/or legal costs, as well as, create delays and distractions in the management of the organization.
Big example, a few years back the District assembled a group of community leaders to study how cost savings could be achieved. There were business professionals, accountants, tax professionals, etc. on the committee. This group, through public meetings, looked at all operational costs of the District such as benefits costs, salaries, bus schedules, building maintenance, and came up with a comprehensive set of suggested actions the District could consider to reduce costs.
The teachers’ union filed an unfair labor practice charge against the District claiming the District could not consider and generally discuss these matters through forum established as they were bargaining issues.
Frustrated: you need to understand that when two sides sit down and negotiate a contract, they are essentially saying you can have this or that(it is in stone). Now, when you get a group of community people together who say here are ways to save the district money, if the teachers/administration already agreed on different terms, you can’t change them midcontract. The district may well want to use them as a bargaining tool during the next contract negotiations and that would be their prerogative. That is bargaining in good faith 101….
From Dolan’s “Restructuring Our Schools:” “If other people set the goals, draw up the indicators, and then announce that they willl monitor and assess to make sure work is done at acceptable quality levels, they are, in effect, saying, “You can’t be trusted… There is a strange disconnect for many educational reformers, who say, ‘Let’s talk about what’s good for kids. I don’t have time to play games with these adults.’ But a cursory glance would tell us that that adult’s environment is those children’s environment. They are one and the same, and if one is alienated and controlled, so will the other be.”
Don’t you understand that the kids and the teachers occupy the same space every day–they have to co-exist. You can disagree till the cows come home, but I believe that what’s good for teachers, is also good for kids. What’s good for the budget and/or the administrators is not always good for kids. For instance, teacher want a safe learning environment–is that bad for kids?
Frustrated: I guess it’s OK with you if the teachers were left out of all these discussions (I don’t see them listed)–can I assume you were on the committee? Since Terry Knapp left (same time I left in 2005), I don’t believe that the union has created very many of the “distractions” caused by grievances, etc., to which you refer. Given your logic, the district should be making great strides without union pressure. Shouldn’t the district also have saved money since there were few, if any, legal actions in the last four years? (You’d think there would have even been one person on the payroll able to take over the superintendent’s job for a few months). How do you explain the mess the district is in at the moment? The union (and I believe in error) made many concessions to the restructuring of Manual with its Memoranda of Understanding.
I assume that District administrators were on the committee (since they assembled the group). Also, I assume the committee was assembled to give the administrators some ideas for negotiating with the teachers–aiding and abetting one group in the “legal” negotiating process. Were those community members able to address administrative salaries and the cost of consultants and unnecessary programs (and the administrators to administer them) or would that have been too rude considering the administrators were the ones who called the meeting? The Mary Davis case right now is a perfect example of how the grievance procedure should have worked (if administrators had a grievance procedure). The district would have saved much money (and McArdle is paying her own legal fees, etc.–no union involved) if they had listened and taken action instead of following the “head-in-the-sand” mode or “blame the outsider” mode.
I realize you don’t like the way things are, but right now there is a union and there are “fair” labor practices that have to be followed, according to the contract between the district and the union. A group of community people can’t just take over. It appears that group could also have been overstepping in Board of Education territory; they are the legal representatives of the voters and, therefore, the only ones with a vote. If you don’t like the way schools are run and the control exerted by unions, you should first put forth the effort to change the system. Caterpilllar broke its union in Peoria by leaving Peoria–it had to reduce the work force. I am sure that the destruction of the teachers’ union is in the tea leaves–but you need to do first things first. You can’t just pretend the union doesn’t exist. The charter school is a step in that direction. Of course, I don’t wish you well, but can’t fault those who want to break the union, tenure, etc. Go for it! It is clear that teachers need a voice–I don’t know who will speak for them once the union is gone. I guess teachers know the answer–hence their desire to have a union. I guess they need to fight a little harder–probably won’t happen since I’d be willing to bet (with the last few years of an exhorbitant number of retirees) there are too many non-tenured teachers who cannot afford to risk sticking their necks out in this very unfriendly environment. So strike while the iron is hot–before BAM gets tenure. 🙂 Because I guarantee that she will be a fighter when that day comes–she’s got the fight in her and I await her action.
Corrent-a-mundo: Thanks for your comments–causes me to amend my thoughts about the negotiating process. I didn’t realize that community people could be used as a bargaining tool–that the group Frustrated mentioned was assembled at the wrong time, etc. (mid-contract when the rules were set in stone). Just follow the rules–and I’m glad to have this enlightenment about the rules.
I believe “management” should be able to seek outside resources to assist them in evaluating complex issues, much like our blogger friend Erik Bush served on a group related to the budget not too long ago. IMO management should be able to undertake such initiatives without the union’s permission.
Correct-a-mundo, I understand items that have been bargained for between the parties cannot be altered during the life of the contract unless agreed to by both parties. The group I referred to was gathered to study cost saving issues and make recommendations, not alter terms or conditions of current employment.
Professional employees not represented by unions have their terms and conditions of employment altered all the time, without their input, especially during these turbulent economic times. My family’s employer has eliminated bonuses, frozen pay, laid employees off, reduced benefit coverage, and changed employees’ job responsibilities, all without the input of the employees, in order to respond to changing market conditions and ensure the survival of the business.
No one has offered a defense as to why school district’s are such a unique animal that their employees should not have to make the same adjustments to a change in revenue stream. The term “employees” as related to District 150 includes its leadership. I do not often criticize the Board, because it is a difficult and thankless job BUT . . . they should have insisted that top level administrators take an across the board decrease in salary a long time ago and attempted to reduce the number of administrative jobs.
Frustrated: you are correct-a-mundo on D150 administrators taking a decrease or freeze of their salaries. They forced the teachers into a freeze during last contract negotiations, promising they would never do that again…….as soon as the ink was dry, Mr. Hinton and the boe gave all the administration of the district their raises (which were frozen prior to negotiations), retroactive, meaning some of the administrators ended up getting very sweet checks…D150 talks about integrity, honesty, trust, respect, but they don’t walk the walk. All I can say is bye bye, Mr. Hinton…..
Frustrated: Sounds like Caterpillar to me–or close enough! I believe it’s true that Caterpillar’s middle management has also suffered with the loss of union influence. I see no reason why I would want schools to be run on the Caterpillar model. Education is not a profit-making business, so I just expect that some (many) things need to be different. I certainly see no reason to look to Caterpillar for guidance. I know the books have to be balanced, etc., but not all good financial decision are good educational decisions. Someone has to find a balance–and it wasn’t going to be Eric Bush (as much as I like him; he was not and admitted that he was not making educational decisions). I think he might even be capable of making good educational decisions, but he wasn’t called on to do that. I am always amazed that people are surprised that teacher salaries make up the bulk of a school’s budget. Students are the only reason for schools, and the only people who work directly with students are teachers–why wouldn’t most of the money go to those in direct contact with students. Education (I believe during my career) tried to copy business by creating many middle-management positions (higher salaries, etc)–hence the top-heavy administration that now exists. My guess is that many of those people sit around with very little to do. I don’t believe education needs middle management. I believe that significant sums of money are spent on employees, programs, etc., that have no impact whatsoever on the education of students.
Again, though the system is what it is and the union contract still applies and will until the system changes.
“the system is what it is and the union contract still applies and will until the system changes.”
And we come full circle to… a charter school – a change in the current system affecting not only teachers, but administration, parents and the BOE.
I hope people are ready for a change.
Of course, that change is “better than nothing” 🙂
The charter school will be a change for 225 families at the beginning–I’m still wondering if the BOE and 150 administration want a change that affects them to the tune of $1.7 million. I’m not certain that it represents that dramatic a change–maybe a push into a new direction. But how does it bring anything “full” circle? What is the starting point to which you think we will be returning? Did anyone happen to notice one aside to the death of the Chicago school board president–something about his involvement in showing preferential treatment in the selection of students to attend a charter school. Now there is an unthinkable idea for Peoria, right?
I’m not 100% sold on the concept of the charter school yet, but I am closer than 75% at this point. I see how it could benefit students and provide opportunities for new and innovative teachers. Yes, it will only benefit those students that attend, but if there is a waiting list, then we know that we have tapped into a good thing. I think I have reached a point where I think the district should be doing things that keep people in Peoria AND attending its public school system. The charter school and Washington Gifted are 2 VERY GOOD reasons to stay. A 3rd reason would be the IB program, even as if undergoes some changes. All things change. Without change we wouldn’t have the medical knowledge we have or the technology. Yes, change is scary, but it is a necessary part of life for us to keep up with the rest of the world.
I’m tired of debating about why the union is good or not. I have said before that I grew up in a union house and know, firsthand, how it can be beneficial. From my viewpoint, as an adult, I often wonder how the PFT is beneficial to ALL teachers. All teachers have to pay into the union, whether they join or not, and the union only represents you IF you have tenure. So, I don’t see any huge benefits to being a part of the union.
Give the charter school GROUPIES the worst primary school IN TOWN and say” here you are ,NOW PROVE IT “. that is before
we blow anymore $$ .Teach them the 3 R’s so they{kids} can be passed on to next grade on achievement, NOT to get rid of them.
Fair Challenge ?
I would rather blow money on something that could be an improvement then continue to blow money on something that is a proven failure
Popijw: That just makes too much sense–the same can be said of the Edison program. Anyone can have success with motivated students who perform at grade level. Anything a charter school can do, District 150 could do if it chose to do so–after all, Washington Gifted is a success. In fact, 150 could even get away with a “special” school. The charter school people claim that success will be theirs because they can choose innovative teachers, etc., without the union to hold them back. Those same teachers are available to District 150 (in fact, many are already in 150 classrooms). I would like someone to provide us with a list of innovations that have been nixed by Peoria’s union (for some other reason than financial compensation). Teachers are expected to give of their “overtime” freely, but when extra jobs need to be done on Wisconsin Avenue the salaried employees are too busy, so consultants (retired administrators) are hired. What a double standard! What the charter school group isn’t saying is that they can provide students with an education at a cheaper price–because they won’t have union contracts and salary schedules with which to contend–and that is the only charter school’s only claim to fame. However, the charter school is very likely to have a high turnover–it will be a starting point for first year (cheap teachers) who will be on waiting lists to get jobs in higher paying unionized districts.
from the “old school” teachers taught ,I believe because it was considered a Profession, back then . I noticed a change in 1967/1968 when it appeared to be a race to be out the doors first; students or TEACHERS ? I remember One Super and one assistant in #150 . Go back to Neighborhood schools ,forget busing crap . Move the teaching staff every 3 years{ NO ONE CAN BECOME AN Institution then} FORGET THE CHANGING OF GRADING SYSTEM , Leave it the way it has always been.
Are athletes still required to be in passing state {all classes} on Friday or NO PLAY for a week?
Your right it makes sense, and another Idea , Lets have a taxpayer vote on whether “To have Unions teach our kids “a
public vote ? Nothing against them as a whole but my personal view is they are not needed in education.We can learn from the past!
How’s that for a “Rogue ” statement ?
Popijw: I forgot to read between the lines when I agreed with you previously. 🙂
sharon – any truth to the rumors that a former union president is “coaching” teachers at a couple of schools in how to develop and file lawsuits? do you support their initiatives?
Is that you, Jim? 🙂 I haven’t heard that Schiefling is doing any “coaching” about lawsuits. Ha! That would probably be a volunteer effort–not a “consultant’s” job. I don’t know any more than I did the last time I talked to you. Is there more than one faculty that has reason to file a lawsuit? I guess no one on Wisconsin Avenue is listening–people do get to the point where they want to be heard. Maybe you are referring to possible violations of freedom of speech issues. I guess the McArdle lawsuit hasn’t taught anyone any lessons–or maybe (after reading yesterday’s story about District 150’s million dollar firm) 150’s lawyers have good reason not to coach 150 in how to avoid lawsuits–their work isn’t pro bono.
Sharon, I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion in any way that charter school teachers would look toward a union pay scale just to earn more money. I’ve been amazed by the number of teachers that work for the parochial schools in town at a rate of compensation much less than that of D150 or other district working under a union negotiated contract. They stay because they believe in what they’re doing…in their case, religious education. I don’t see a tremendously high turnover rate at most private schools in town. So, what’s to say that teachers at the proposed charter school wouldn’t have the same experience…that they wouldn’t accept potentially less pay for a job they find meaningful and fulfilling? Just my $.02…
JC–Agreed, nothing is a foregone conclusion–just a hunch on my part. I agree about parochial schools because many teach there as a religious commitment. I don’t see the charter schools drawing teachers for any more of a noble calling than that to which other teachers are called. Again just a hunch–but my guess is that those who teach without regard for salary are often women whose husbands are the primary bread winners. Also, I do not see a conflict between having a love of teaching and dedication to students while at the same time earning a good living. I don’t know anything about your teaching position but are you one of those for whom pay is irrelevant? I know that I have friends (still teaching) who are dedicated teachers but they have spouses and children–and providing for them costs money. Again, I ask–why should teachers be considered to be dedicated volunteers–why can’t teaching be a lucrative career? Also, I know teachers who have had private sector jobs, but have not found them fulfilling and, therefore, began a teaching career. They may or may not have sacrificed higher wages.
What I don’t get is this idea that those of us who worked hard as teachers did so because of what we were or were not paid. I never thought to myself–I’m just not getting paid enough to do this or that or if they’d pay me more, I’d take more work home at night. I did often think that I would do more if I had more time–or that administrators did not understand how time-consuming teaching was when they doled out meaningless paper work. etc. Also, to those on the blog who have recently suggested that it would be good for teachers to compete. In the business world, there is a cooperate ladder to climb; fortunately, in teaching there is no such ladder. Being a good teacher has little, if anything, to do with getting an administrative job. I have never known an administrator that got his/her position because of great success in the classroom. Frankly, I have never understood why a “born” and/or dedicated teacher would consider an administrative job–they seem to me to require two very different skill sets. I know that there are individuals who go into teaching with their eyes on an administrative position from the getgo–they are the ones who are not great teachers–their goal is not to become great teachers.
Sharon, of course my paycheck isn’t irrelevant, nor was that the point of my post…I think you know that, though. As an aside, my contract isn’t union negotiated at ISU and I earn a fine salary! Thanks for checking! 🙂
JC–No, I didn’t know that you received your pay check from ISU, but your post did imply or state that some teachers are willing to work for less money as some sort of sacrifice–just wondered if you were one of them. One commenter recently stated that he remembered the good old days when teaching was a “profession.” I believe that being a doctor or a lawyer is, also, a profession, but no one expects them to work for less money “if they believe in what they are doing.” The implication, of course, is that if teachers choose to work where the salaries are higher, they might not believe in what they are doing or that their jobs are less meaningful or fulfilling. I would just like for the general public to take a step back and ask themselves why so many seem to feel that teaching is one of those jobs where sacrifice is almost a requirement. I think it’s a “leftover” attitude from the days when most public school teachers were single women for whom teaching was “their life” (and they didn’t have many other job opportunities). I agree that the turnover is probably not as high in parochial schools–I don’t know the statistics, but I am curious to know if the same is true of charter schools.
There is much yet to find out about how Peoria’s new charter school will look, including salaries. I don’t know at this point that you can necessarily assume that the salaires will be dramatically lower. This is a math and science school and it will have to offer salaries that attract teachers with this type of training, which always seems to be in demand.
Frustrated: I agree–just curious. I’m wondering when 150 is going to make the final decision. I thought the charter school would be a topic for November 30’s committee of the whole meeting, but it is not on the agenda. A Woodruff update is to be discussed.
Teaching is a proffesion one that pays fairly well for what education etc.. is required to do the job. Everyone goes to meaningless meetings, fills out meaningless paperwork, and has meaningless busy work to do at their job. All proffesions require work to be done outside the work environment.
“I would just like for the general public to take a step back and ask themselves why so many seem to feel that teaching is one of those jobs where sacrifice is almost a requirement.”
I would like for teachers to step back and ask why they think that they sacrifice and the rest of us just skip and sing our ways to the salt mines.
Yerly–All that you and others say may be true, but teachers (and other public sector jobs) are the only ones for which salary and benefits are public knowledge. Also, I have to take your word for what kind of job-related work (and how much) you do outside the work environment and how much you are paid, etc. I certainly have had friends who weren’t teachers, but I don’t recall very many of them who carried work home at night. I would just like some specific information. If you have such a job, please enlighten me as to what kind of work you take home at night and on weekends. Also, as to the meaningless paperwork, etc., is that part of your day’s work or are you required to take it home? Also, I know full well that there are teachers who do not take work home at night, so I probably shouldn’t speak for all teachers–just for myself and for the ones that I know who spend many hours away from school on job-related tasks.