Dr. Fischer: D150 is big ship, hard to reform

Dr. Cindy Fischer spoke at the Uplands Residential Association meeting Thursday night, November 12. She had been invited by Uplands resident Jennifer Brady to talk about the Peoria Charter School Initiative. Her presentation was similar to the one given at the Civic Center, except that there were no representatives of the Chicago Math and Science Academy (CMSA) in attendance.

According to Dr. Fischer’s presentation, the charter school as proposed would have roughly the same demographics as the rest of District 150. Their plan is to recruit students from all parts of District 150, including the most impoverished areas. They’re committed to maintaining diversity. This was interesting to me because the district has long maintained that poverty is a root cause of low achievement. So I wondered why, given the same demographic makeup, the charter school promised to deliver such high performance. Dr. Fischer explained that the charter school would get better results because of the “best practices” that would be implemented and various other components of their program, such as a longer school day, higher teacher accountability, etc.

That all sounds great, but why isn’t District 150 doing that already? Dr. Fischer is not an outsider to District 150. She was in central administration. In fact, she was an Associate Superintendent. She was in a position of major influence. So, why didn’t she implement these “best practices” and other components when she was there? Are the practices only legal for charter schools to implement? Was she unable to enact changes because of resistance from others? Or did she only learn about these practices after retiring from the district?

I asked her those questions Thursday night. She explained that, in her position as Associate Superintendent, she wasn’t over curriculum and instruction for middle and high schools. She was over “everything else” — things like early childhood education, safety, etc. So she in fact wasn’t in a position to implement the kinds of reforms being discussed.

She also said that when she first came to the central administration building, she was ready to go in and make changes, but found that it wasn’t as easy as she thought it would be to make reforms. She said District 150 is “like a big ship,” and “before you can turn a big ship, you have to slow it down.” In keeping with that metaphor, she explained that she spent most of her time just trying to “slow down the ship” so reforms could be made.

Finally, Dr. Fischer explained that the proposed “best practices” are easier to implement in a charter school because you are “starting from scratch.” Since you’re building a new school from the ground up, you don’t have to change an existing culture. You can establish the kind of learning and working culture you want from the outset.

I have to say, Dr. Fischer was a very impressive speaker. My question didn’t rattle her at all. She didn’t sound or appear defensive in answering it, but spoke as professionally and engagingly as she had the rest of the evening. She also expertly avoided saying anything negative about District 150 teachers, union, administrative staff, etc., even as she spoke about the district’s low achievement scores. The board of directors made an excellent decision in appointing her the public face of the Peoria Charter School Initiative.

187 thoughts on “Dr. Fischer: D150 is big ship, hard to reform”

  1. Well, Rix, you should probably throw me in to that group with Sharon, too – at least on this topic.

    Harry (and I hope your questions were not rhetorical) – Manual does cost a lot – On a previous post (charter school topic dated Nov 6), JC Friberg provided some data she got from an FOIA that showed Manual to cost nearly $11,700 per student compared to the district average of $6,500 (I believe these to be “instructional” costs only – not total operating costs that includes busing, police, janitors, etc.) Some of the increased costs for Manual are based on a higher % of low income students and as such, Title 1 funds being spent there to work more closely with students. (This is true of other “poorer” schools, too, not just Manual). Other increased costs are a $200k purchased specialized curriculum and a school administration that is larger than most. Also, high schools tend to cost more per student than primary or middle schools. That said, the District is, IMO, making a stand with Manual – it is knowingly spending a lot of money to try and stop the tide of decreased enrollments, lower test scores, gang activity, etc.

    The charter group’s proposal is to get 90% of the average per pupil cost – thus it should be cheaper on average. Much of that savings comes from the estimate that they can hire teachers to make less average salaries than current district teachers, despite teaching longer hours and more days in the year. The teachers at the charter will likely not start out as part of a union. (Some Chicago charter schools eventually have unionized). The “non-charter” portion of D150 will have to adjust if the charter is implemented and hits its enrollment targets. If, over time, the charter has 500 students – that means 500 less students in “non-charter” schools – so the “non-charter” District should shrink accordingly.

  2. Diane said, “I understand the Vallas rationale for Charter Schools but would like to see the resources vested in improving the district culture first.”

    Jon I was referring mostly to intellectual resources. There was a reason I linked to the Advisory Committee member list. My guess is that the people on the list are commonly accepted as some of our best and brightest leaders. Why would they not use their business savvy to address what I listed above as some of the most critical issues facing D150? You say they care about the greater good of the entire District. I am simply asking for examples of that. Maybe they exist. If they do, it would be to their advantage to let us know about it.

    You might find this humorous, but do you know how one of the Charter advocates described our District Watch group (to my face)? “Noise”. All of our efforts on behalf of students, families, teachers and taxpayers, he considers “noise”. I ask you, Jon, Does that bode well for the greater District 150 as far as this group is concerned?

    Teachers are being carried out on stretchers and assaulted on a regular basis. Too many of our students continue to fail, despite massive expenditures of cash, two increases in property taxes and a district in a near bankrupt state. If a group is looking for community buy-in and support they must acknowledge and ideally have solutions to some of the terrible conditions that exist in the entire district.

    Otherwise, it would appear they are a one-issue group. In that case, their involvement in district issues will be irrelevant to most families, which to me represents a sad waste of community talent.

  3. Jon, I continue to say that the increase in enrollment as nothing whatsoever to do with Manual’s success or failure–first, of all the numbers are negligible. For instance, last year when I FOIAd attendance records, Manual’s enrollment was at 516. Beginning of the year figures are always higher than are the end of the year figures. Most of the students at Manual are there because they have “no” choice, not because they chose Manual. Besides you do not know how much numbers can be manipulated to say what administrators want them to say. I will go on record as saying that there is absolutely nothing about Manual that spells success. You seem to know how much Manual is costing but feel it is justified. I love your contention that the Manual program will be cutting down on gang activity. ??Charter schools operate independently! They have one major advantage. When students don’t perform to its liking, the charter school can send them packing back to District 150. 150 would improve tremendously if it had that option.
    Jon, I continue to say that numbers just don’t tell the story. When Kherat said that Manual’s graduation rate is up–she is telling the truth. The part of the story that isn’t told is “how” that happened–passing kids that didn’t really “pass.” Jon, do you have any personal connection with Manual employees, etc? What does it tell you when you learn that two science teachers quit and another will quit at the end of the semester? Diane, so we are “noise.” That’s funny. At least, they know we exist. And isn’t it great that we live in a country when the average citizen can speak out–and that C.J. continues to give us that chance, also. I contend that we aren’t the only ones making “noise.”
    Diane, what you say is true about Peoria’s leaders, now involved in the charter school. Have they directed any of their previous efforts to involvement in improving District 150? I would imagine most of them do not even have children in 150. Fischer is certainly a great example of someone who had the opportunity to “at least” suggest change for 150–she didn’t make waves; she needed that high-paying job so that she could get this new job.

  4. “… but would like to see the resources vested in improving the district culture first.”

  5. “Why would they not use their business savvy to address what I listed above as some of the most critical issues facing D150?”

    Simple – Choice. We can force people to do one thing or do it one way (only that which Diane deems worthy?), or we can give them a choice. Funny how people seem to like having a choice in things, like schools for instance.

  6. Waste fullness, incompetence, misplaced priorities, nepotism, corruption….

    Jon, we are going around in circles. At this point perhaps we should agree to disagree 😉

  7. I believe that what Diane means by “improving the district’s culture” first is twofold. She is referring to all the bad decisions 150 has made because they have looked to the wrong places for solutions–and these “solutions” have been chosen because of incompetence and misplaced priorities and have resulted in a tremendous waste of money. I would add that “changing the culture,” also, involves addressing the discipline problems at so many schools with solutions that work. Manual’s idea of replacing consequences for behavior with incentives encouraging students to behave sounds wonderful–but it is not working. The same philisophy is followed by far too many 150 administrators in the central office and in schools–and the BOE. 150 is using “choice” as an excuse (or solution) for not addressing these problems throughout the distict.

  8. I can see where both Diane and Jon are coming from. They both want choice, but Diane (and I) want the rest of the schools to be better than they currently are. The charter school will offer (I’m assuming) a better curriculum and better safety, don’t all the schools deserve that?

    I think we should figure out a way that allows ALL students to have the education that they deserve so that they can go on to college without being at a disadvantage from the beginning. It is talked about quite a bit about how students coming from150 schools don’t have the same educational skill sets that neighboring districts have when they enter college. Why should just a select few be allowed what the entire district should have?

    I would love for my children to have the best education they can (without me going into debt through the private school route) AND get an education on living in a diverse population. They are getting their life lessons by attending PPS and most of their educational needs met, but how many students aren’t? Those are the students we should be worried about. Somebody earlier said (either on here or on PJS) that some kids would be more successful if Mom wasn’t having to work 3 jobs just to keep food on the table, bills paid, and enough left over to pay for clothes. Those are the families that are being left behind. Unfortunately, I think the charter school will hand-pick the students that attend. That selectiveness will, more than likely, come from teacher recommendations. This is the way the Washington is administered. Some teachers, like some people, will make judgments about people based on looks, hygiene, and family involvement (attendance at PT conferences, emails, phone calls, letters to teacher, etc.) and base their recommendations from that. My guess is that their will be several students on the south side that will be overlooked for this choice school.

    I would love for someone to prove me wrong, but the track record for the district is pretty clear.

    Just my opinion.

  9. The group is “noise” ?

    Without this “noise”, who would hold the administration accountable? I believe the Board is starting to see that there are many major problems with the administration. I think the “noise” has helped them to see the administration in a different light. Unethical and/or illegal behavior by the administration should not be tolerated. The district needs to be accountable for their actions and also follow their own policies.

    The Charter School may or may not be a good idea. It will not address the big picture for the district. The administrative team needs to be gutted and then change can take place. Until this happens you can count on a great deal of noise!

  10. Rix — I “curbed another commenter” for insulting other commenters, too. Nothing has been hijacked here — everyone is on-topic. And I, for one, am enjoying hearing the pros and cons of this charter school.

    All — I’m not fundamentally opposed to charter schools. I’m uncomfortable with this particular charter school because of the people who are leading it:

    ADVISORY COMMITTEE

    * Ken Hinton – Peoria Public Schools
    * Dr. David Gorenz – Peoria Board of Ed/OSF
    * Mary Spangler – Peoria Board of Ed/Parent
    * Glen Barton – Caterpillar (retired)
    * Dr. John Erwin – Illinois Central College
    * Dr. Jeff Nelson – Regional Office of Education
    * Dr. John Avendano – Illinois Central College
    * Barbara VanAuken – City of Peoria Councilwoman/Renaissance Park
    * Mike Dugard – Renaissance Park Commissioner/OLLI, Retired Teacher
    * Sue Wozniak – OSF
    * Dr. Cindy Fischer – Peoria Public Schools/Renaissance Park Commissioner
    * James Richmond – E-Serve
    * Alice Price – Methodist Medical Center
    * Dr. Sarah Rush – UNICOMP
    * Dr. John Halverson – UNICOMP
    * Jeff Bennington – CGN
    * Elizabeth Shultz – Caterpillar
    * Carry Wahlfeld – Parent
    * Jeff McCombs – Farnsworth Group
    * Mac Pogue – Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at Bradley University; IBM, retired
    * Dr. Bob Bolla – Bradley University
    * Dr. Joan Sattler – Bradley University
    * McFarland Bragg – PCCEO
    * Jim Montelongo – Advanced CAD/CAM, City of Peoria – Councilman
    * Laraine Bryson – Tri-County Urban League
    * Ginger Johnson – PALM/TRICON
    * Patrick Roesler – G&D Integrated and Chamber of Commerce Ed. Comm.
    * Marty Clinch – IBEW and Chamber Education Committee
    * Rob Parks – Chamber of Commerce
    * Dr. Vicky Stewart – ICC/Chamber Education Committee
    * David Henebry – LZT
    * Ray Lees – PSA Dewberry
    * Paul Kouri – PSA Dewberry
    * Ed Berry – Farnsworth Group

    STEERING COMMITTEE

    * Glen Barton – CEO Caterpillar, retired
    * Dr. Vicky Stewart – Vice President, Illinois Central College
    * McFarland Bragg – CEO,PCCEO
    * Mac Pogue – Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at Bradley University; IBM, retired
    * Jeff McCombs – Marketing and Public Relations Director, Farnsworth Group
    * Roberta Parks – COO, Chamber of Commerce
    * Cindy Fischer – Former Associate Superintendent, Peoria Public Schools; Renaissance Park Commissioner

    I don’t know everyone on this list, but I don’t have a lot of confidence in many of the names I do know. Just as one example: several people on this list were involved in attempts to discourage county school districts from putting a referendum on the April ballot that would have given them much needed funding for infrastructure. Why? Well, because they didn’t want it to hurt the chances of the museum referendum passing. This makes me question their judgment and their commitment to education.

  11. Again I ask, has the charter school held meetings on the south side to inform parents of this wonderful opportunity for their children? Look at the places they have gone to sell their product–that will tell you from where the students will be selected.

  12. Here is kind of a sick slightly twisted thought. What if the individuals posting here that are strongly in favor of Charter Schools do not get their application approved? Unfortunately, that will be a reality for some families, if not some of the posters here. Imagine how you (or they) will feel when that, in fact, happens.

    Taken a step further, and back to the “Titanic” analogy – You ain’t making it into the lifeboat, hun. You’re going down with the ship!

  13. C.J.–If more than the capped number apply for the charter school, do all names go into the lottery–or are the first to apply automatically allowed in?

  14. Do not get their application approved? You mean not get picked in the lottery? I guess it would tell the district that it needs more choice schools – since more people want in than there are spaces. Of course, there are alternatives, be it private schools or the neighborhood school. Sure, if it happened to me, I’d be disappointed – but I realize you can’t always get what you want – I’d be thankful to have had the opportunity – more of an opportunity than I have today.

    (Diane, you said maybe we should agree to disagree – then offer up a “sick slightly twisted thought” directed at proponents like me? 🙂 Besides, I thought you were still on the fence on this issue? One can only imagine what you would be saying if you were against it 🙂 )

    Sharon, as you said, the charter school hasn’t even been accepted. Of course they want to drum up some support, so they have held open meetings at the Civic Center and spoken at groups that invited them (and have offered to speak to anyone). If and when the charter is approved (if not before), I imagine you’ll see them a lot more comprehensive in getting the word out to all constituents.

    CJ, with a list that large, there are sure to be people that some have doubts on, just as there are sure to be some that people highly respect. However, I do believe that if this charter doesn’t happen – none will for quite some time. Naturally, it would be preferable to have confidence in all of the people directing the charter as well as confidence in exactly how the charter school intends to operate. But since I’m unlikely to agree with everone, or agree with everything on how the school should be run, I’d rather it be that I agree more with the decisions on how the school is run than what I think of the people. So besides your misgivings about some of the people directing it, do you have any concerns about how the school is to be operated? If so, I think the charter group would welcome your comments.

  15. Jon and all concerned: This charter school issue boils down to one major issue for me. Do we want to destroy the public school? Yes, I know that charter schools are public schools–sort of. But, in reality, they are run by companies–they are businesses. Over the long haul and when push comes to shove, businesses will make decisions based on money, not on sound educational practices. NCLB has succeeded in discrediting the public school–by 2014 when AYP is 100%, all public schools will be discredited. The charter school will do absolutely nothing to improve 150’s image–this is a choice that takes students away from 150. The charter school will do everything in its power to distance itself from 150. (That was Mayor Daley’s complaint about the charter schools in Chicago–Vallas did not help the whole system–just gave some an escape route). Most of the people on the above list of charter school supporters have no desire to improve 150’s image–they have no interest in 150 at all. If they did, we would have heard from them before now. They would have been speaking at the BOE podium–oh, yes, Rob Parks did show up to advocate closing Woodruff. As long as there is life in 150, I will continue to fight to save it–I wish that 150 could come up with those “saving” measures. Yes, I spend considerable time pointing out 150’s failings. You can’t fix anything if you pretend the problem doesn’t exist–the central administration and BOE have traditionally been all too involved in PR, a cover-up of all problems. The “noise” of District Watch serves to bring these problems to the public’s attention. Frankly, we don’t get up at board meetings to talk to just the board–we are talking to a very misinformed public.

  16. Ok, all the talk about attendance numbers has piqued my interest. I just submitted a FOIA for attendance/suspensions/expulsions for the high schools and middle schools (because they will feed the chart school). I have asked for them for various dates from last school year and this.

    I’m hoping these will shed light on how many students actually attend the high schools on a daily basis versus published attendance.

  17. BAM–You mean such instances as Manual, which claims to have a 91% attendance rate–when the absenteeism that I FOIAd for the last semester of last year told a much different story. I would love to know how anyone came up with that 91% figure–do they just take one day of the year (with the highest attendance) and state that 91% of students attend school?
    Goodness–just heard on CNN that the body of the president of Chicago’s school board was found floating in the river.

  18. Emerge, where did you get those figures–I don’t doubt that you are right, but where do you find such figures? Did you FOIA the info–can you give us the break down by school. Also, we do have to keep these figures in perspective. District 150’s black population is 61%. Manual’s is 81.8, Woodruff is 66.3, Peoria High is 78.1, and Trewyn is 86.8, for example. So why wouldn’t the highest percentage of suspensions be for black students when the black population is so high? If you have a truly integrated school with a suspension rate of 80 to 90% for blacks, then there is certainly cause for questioning why? The number of suspensions and the reasons for the suspensions, also, must be considered when analyzing suspensions. For example, if kids engage in fights (cause for automatic suspension) and the fights are usually black vs black, then it would stand to reason that all should be suspended.

  19. Diane, you said maybe we should agree to disagree – then offer up a “sick slightly twisted thought” directed at proponents like me?

    Jon, that was my sick and twisted twin sister :). I, however, thank you for the dialogue. You are an admirable and worthy debate opponent.

  20. Elaine just e-mailed me a link to a Charter school forum. It appears it will be nicely balanced with both points of view. The full link is here:

    http://peoria.il.lwvnet.org/calendar.html

    Should Peoria School District 150 approve a math, science and technology charter school, a middle school to be expanded into a high school? How will this impact other schools and students? How will it be financed? Cindy Fisher and Vicki Stewart will explain the plans of the Peoria Charter School Initiative to open a math, science and technology charter school in District 150 by next August, 2010, beginning with grades 5 + 7 then expanding yearly into high school. The plan contemplates a school with 600 students, with the students chosen by lottery. Gerry Brookhart will discuss what charter schools are and the restrictions the state of Illinois places on them. Tom McLauglin and Sharon Teefey from the Illinois Federation of Teachers will present an alternative view on charter schools. The presentations will be followed by a question and answer session. General Meeting- Public invited

  21. Situations, businesses, schools, love, hardly anything changes without competition. The unions and others have made sure their is little or no competiton nationwide The Edison Program was an asset to the community until administration started to place poorly qualified, tenured teacher as principals.

    Charter Schools run by companies? I have a one inch folder of clippings on charter schools. None are run by companies. They are run by concerned people who want their children to be a able to get a job with a company, start their own company, to learn enough to vote for the person rather than party, etc., replace the inadequate people in Congress, etc………

    Cindy Fischer? Sorry but I’ve worked or tried to with Cynthia for years. As one of the top three in current administration, she reached her Peter Princple when she was working out of the old YMCA building downtown where I thought she did a good job.

    Then she got lost in the ivory towers of acadamia.

    This proposed charter school? Jim Stowell and others are exactly right when they say if it can be done in this #150s run charter school, why can’t they do it in all schools?

    Reason why not? Multiple reasons including unions don’t want competition, unqualified teachers allowed to stay in sytem because of tenure, lawsuits; teachers unable to handle discipline problems, weak administration, strong unions, community apathy, my run for the board in 1994 had 6 candiates for one position; today one or maybe two……….

    I’ve written a dozen informationally correct blogs on charter schools, the latest on July 8, 2009 one can find in my archives.

    I’ve written on KIPP acadamies, Harlem Childrens’s Zone, 5/24/09, Teach for America, etc.

    I’ve offered my over 14 years of indexed files of information, gleaned from dozens of professionals, to any school board member. Unfortunatly, they all seem to know it all already.

    No takers yet.

    Peoria School District #150 looked at from an overall viewpoint, is a mess. So are way too many of the the public schools across America.

  22. Merle, you’re catching me at a weak and defensive moment. I do remember how you handle discipline problems–the stop the bus incident. 🙂 Do you really believe that the primary cause of discipline problems is unqualified teachers? What power do they have with regard to discipline? From my own experience in teaching, I am not at all certain that the “unqualified” teachers would be the ones to go in a non-union school. As I’ve said before, the “unqualified” teachers often find ways to ingratiate themselves with principals–I suppose you’ve all seen that in the business world, also–so they aren’t the ones who are fired. Without unions, teachers would not be free to expose problems in the system. I shouldn’t engage in this argument (as with many others where fools rush in but angels fear to tread) because those who blame unions and teachers will always blame teachers. I just don’t think that blaming teachers–or expecting them to work miracles–will solve the problems. The charter school will solve the problem because it won’t have to put up with discipline problems–those students will be shipped back to 150, so we still won’t know if non-union teachers are better at handling the problems.
    I don’t understand your statement that charter schools aren’t run by companies–the PCSI has already contracted (or promised) a company the job.

  23. Watching the board meeting and my eyes keep wandering to the the directors sitting in the back. They are talking and laughing while speakers are talking. These are the professionals the district has hired. I believe the two who are being RUDE are Mary Ward and Mary O’Brian. Someone give them lessons on manners and how to behave at a board meeting.

  24. Are they the two sitting closest to the exit door? I noticed the same unprofessional behavior from those wearing what appears to be nametags.

  25. Yes. Both have short hair. I believe the attorney that was sitting next to Mary Ward moved over, probably due to their rude behavior.

  26. I agree strong1. I watched while they “chatted” away. Maybe they should sit in the first set of chairs in front of the board. I’m sure that would shut them up…
    Why was Hinton not there…..too busy in Harlem looking for some consulting work?

  27. Why are they now discussing a policy on charge cards for administrators? Are they saying that since there were no rules, no one was breaking any rules? Think about it.

  28. Honestman: I was thinking the same thing. Is it strategy? They all want to save themselves. Seems a little late.

  29. My children are not candidates for the charter school but I believe it is still a great NEW initiative that merits exploring. It offers not only a great educational opportunity, but it also offers hope to a city that is struggling.

    I cannot follow the argument that implementation of a charter school is damning to the rest of the student population. I see the development of a charter school and perhaps several more specialized schools after that, as a further step in “customizing” educational offerings to meet the needs of a diverse community of learners.

    Bamcdaniel writes “I think we should figure out a way that allows ALL students to have the education that they deserve so that they can go on to college without being at a disadvantage from the beginning.” I agree in part with this statement — I think public education should provide offerings that allow ALL students to learn. I believe, however, that has to come through varied distribution channels.

    Some seem to take issue with the existence of Washington Gifted and for the life of me, I cannot understand why. My children loved going to this school and connected with a great peer group. Before Washington, my children did not receive the education that was “appropriate” for them in District primary school. It was not because the principal was ineffective or the teachers were not sufficient, it was because the school’s aim was to address the needs of a different type of learner, which it did so most effectively.

    Washington Gifted, Edison, Manual Academy, the IB program, . . . and now the charter school, to me this is the wave of the future. I think District 150 is on the right track and with fresh leadership and a bit of housecleaning, good things can begin to happen.

  30. Frustrated asked:

    Did Dr. Fischer discuss what support systems and/or criteria for success will be used. Though all students are welcome to come, I have to believe only those conforming to the academic and conduct requirements will be allowed to remain.

    My wife asked something very similar to that question — she asked if there would be a point at which students would be removed (for non-compliance, behavior, whatever). My wife felt that Dr. Fischer evaded the question. She didn’t say whether there would ever be a point at which a student would be asked to leave. She did say that if the parents didn’t do their part, the committee didn’t feel it right to penalize the student for his or her parents’ behavior, so the teachers would be expected to help either after school or on Saturdays tutoring.

    Sharon Crews asked:

    If more than the capped number apply for the charter school, do all names go into the lottery–or are the first to apply automatically allowed in?

    I don’t know. I thought she said that the first ones to apply got in, and once all the seats were filled, additional students would be placed on a waiting list and chosen by lottery for any seats that subsequently opened up. My wife thought she said they were all chosen by lottery. My wife usually has the better memory, so if you’re placing bets, go with what she said. 🙂

  31. Certainly, your wife’s way would be the fairest way–since there could be a “judgment” call as to which applicants came first, etc. I hadn’t thought about it before but wouldn’t it seem likely that the charter school would accept only a certain number of students for each grade level–further complicating the lottery and/or selection process.

  32. Thanks C.J. for your response.

    For the same reason that many colleges and universities are doing away with early decision and early application programs, as they believe the process disadvantages low income and minority applicants, I would think a lottery by grade would be the most equitable method of filling spots, if demand is high. Of course, the policy decision to give preference to siblings complicates matters. Not that I necessarily think this is a wrong decision.

    Like so many things, the devil is in the details in how the community perceives the fairness and efficiency of programs. I realize that many of you are “frustrated” with the District and understandably so, but it is difficult to craft policies and procedures, at times, that are fair and equitable to all and that foresee all the pits falls and what ifs down the road.

  33. For the selection process to be a true “lottery” and accepted by the public as open and fair, they would have to execute the admission lottery process the same way it is done at the Department of Elections for the “ballot positioning” lottery. That is, there is a real lottery ball machine, and the entire process is videotaped and down-loadable for viewing. Anything less can and should be considered a corrupted process.

  34. Frustrated: I have several friends who attended Washington Gifted and loved it. I believe that the reason why some people are against it is conected the way that school programs are now judged according to test scores. The students who would have brought in high test scores for their home schools are now withdrawn. Gifted education is considered special education. Special education is not just for those students at the low end of the spectrum. All other special education students are integrated into regular classrooms except in extreme cases. All special education students’ scores, I believe, count toward a school’s AYP. Schools would benefit from having the gifted scores included. Also, if the mantra is full integration, why not integrate the gifted students? However, I do believe that reseach shows that integrated classes work best with only one step difference (gifted/regular ed or regular ed/special ed and not all three mixed together.)

  35. j-darcy – I think I followed your post. What you are saying is that some believe that Washington Gifted extracts the brightest students from the other middle schools and this allegedly brings down test scores. I simply do not believe the facts support that. The largest portion of the 60 students selected each year to attend Washington are from Charter Oak and Kellar, and those are feeder schools for Mark Bills and Lindbergh respectively. The other approximately 1/3 (20 or so) would have fed into the other middles schools. Mark Bills and Lindbergh are making adequate yearly progress. I am not familiar with the AYP results of the other middles schools but, the number of students that do NOT attend these middles schools but instead attend Washington ,are so minimal as to not affect the results in any significant way.

  36. Frustrated and JDarcy: I’m just making an observation–not advocating anything on this subject (because I am not against Washington Gifted). By 2014 when all schools have to meet 100% AYP, you might hear even more complaining about drawing out any high-performing students from any school. This is just another way that NCLB will have a negative effect on public schools.

  37. Diane, here is what the charter school’s application states with respect to the lottery:

    “If the number of eligible applications for admission exceeds the spaces available for
    students, a random lottery will be held. The lottery will be open to the public. It will
    be conducted before a notary public and a representative of District 150. The lottery
    process will be videotaped. Siblings of MSTCS students will be given preference in
    order to keep families together.”

  38. Jon – Maybe I should read up more on the Charter School before commenting, ya think? 😉

    Also, the date the charter begins accepting applications needs to be widely publicized as well as all applications dated and timed. The initial application process can be similarly handled to the filing of candidate petitions on petition filing day.

    The one cog in the wheel, however is the sibling precedent. That will be a tough one to handle.

  39. CJ–this is off-topic–but we’ve talked about the FOIA compliance issue here before. Page B5 of the PJStar (today) has an interesting article regarding FOIA compliance within Illinois public bodies that are not in compliance with FOIA laws. Copying costs: first 50 pages are free and each copy thereafter is $.15 each. Charges cannot exceed actual costs. The article also adds that there is a fine for those that “willfully and intentionally” violate…Also–requires a public body to provide records in an electronic format if requested and feasible.

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