When I heard that McCain was considering Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, I started reading up on her, and I must say, I’m impressed. The more I’ve thought about it, the more I think she would be a brilliant choice both on the merits and as a political maneuver. Palin is known for her high integrity and staunchly conservative credentials. She’s 44 years old, female (obviously), and as a governor she has experience that none of the other candidates have.
Read her bio on Wikipedia and I think you’ll agree, even if you’re not Republican, that it’s an inspired choice for the party’s VP nominee. It’s official.
kcdad — Funny you should mention Dan Quayle. Before he became Vice President, he had served in the U.S. House of Representatives for four years and the U.S. Senate for eight years. Obama, by comparison, has served in the Illinois Senate for eight years and, by the time he would ascend to the Presidency if he wins, he will have served in the U.S. Senate for four years.
That means they both have 12 years experience overall, but Quayle had all 12 at the federal level, and Obama only has four at the federal level.
Thus, Obama is no more experienced now than Dan Quayle was in 1988 (and is much less experienced at a national level). Only Obama isn’t running for VP — he’s running for President!
Never have I seen so many dumb comments in response to one post! Aaaaargh!
On the surface, you might say McCain neutralized one important weakness in his opponent by picking Palin as his running mate, however, her selection actually brought the “experience” issue to the forefront, and when people realize that they’re voting for the presidential candidate, rather than the running mate, it’s Obama that will lose.
Agreed C.J. I think I may have mentioned that in a previous post.
This V.P. choice is a joke. Leave it to the Republicans to try and make her into a solid candidate. If the Dems had done the same thing, they would have been all over it like David Jordan on a new railroad tie.
Prego,
Worldview is as important, or more so, than experience. We will see how Palin performs in the VP debate.
If McCain is elected, then he will mentor Palin in foreign policy. Or maybe Biden will mentor Obama if he’s elected đ
David, the problem is that if one assumes that Palin is even somewhat qualified to be Vice President (let alone PRESIDENT), then so are about 1 or 2 million other hockey moms. I think that her experience as a mayor and even as a governor (for a year and a half) is not hardly worth the paper it’s written on. She has not been tested by a primary season (like Obama has); she was merely chosen by a dude willing to do nearly anything to get elected (or so he thinks); mostly because she is a woman.
There are about a dozen other Republican women who have been tested by a number of primaries, elections, committees, and so on. Why weren’t any of these chosen? If you MUST choose a woman (and that’s just fine in my book), why not choose someone with AT LEAST a track record? This is like a Saturday Night Live skit. It’s silly almost beyond comprehension. And, again, if the Dems had done something even similar, the Republicans would be jumping all over it, and saying how “political” the choice was; that the choice has no practical experience, etc. etc. You know DAMNED well that they would have!
And, yet, here are a number of Republicans saying that this was an inspired choice. Again, silliness has taken over. I hope to God that McCain-Palen goes the way I think they’re gonna go. Like… to perhaps 86 electoral votes.
C.J. Apparently experience doesn’t really matter… Dan Quayle for example. Ted Kennedy, for example.
But the difference between Obama and McCain is that Obama is promising a new approach to Washington, as is McCain…. but Obama doesn’t have the 26 + years of experience being a part of the problem like McCain has.
Now for McCain to tap a neophyte, an obscure, recordless neophyte and then argue he is the BETTER candidate because of experience is not only idiotic, but suicidal.
Quayle, back to your 12 years experience comment, could have had 6 doctoral degrees, 40 years in elected office and an anointing of holy oil, but he would have still been a empty suit and a fool.
Palin is eye candy for McCain… nothing more. It is pure marketing.
Scott A. Shepler??? I love you, man.
I’m puzzled by the theory that ONE of the things Palin could do for McCain is attract female voters. Which women voters are we talking about? The ones more conservative than McCain? Presuming they would not have voted for him otherwise, and stayed home on election day if not for Palin, fair enough. But who else are they going to sway with her? Hilary supporters? Independents? Do people really believe this?
This concept that female voters will be attracted to a candidate simply because of gender, regardless of ideology or stance on the issues is an insult to women (myself included), and to everyone’s intelligence, presuming they have any.
She can’t appear smarter than McCain so yes she’ll be Danny in a skirt.
SAGE sez: “We need no lectures from a party that gave us Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and Obama. All severely lacking in experience when elected. And none with a drop of foreign policy experience.”
I say: You been in a cave for the last 7 and half years? All 3 of those guys you mentioned couldn’t screw up as bad as Bush the King has. Get off Faux News.
All these comparisons of Palin to Quayle are interesting. Didn’t G H W Bush and Quayle win that 88 election?
Emtronics,
I give you:
Carter – Iran, Afghanistan, and a severely atrophied military (especially the Navy, of all things for an ex-Navy man)
Clinton – Somolia, Iraq, Twin Embassy bombings in Africa, USS Cole and an atrophied intelligence network abroad.
Carter wrung his hands and Clinton buried his head in the sand. Things were not all hunky-dory when these guys were in office.
Mouse: Coudln’t post all the things Bush has given us, just Google Bushisms and read through the countless pages. And, that is just one man.
Note: Reagan cut and run from Beruit after 250 Marines were killed. We can go back and forth all day.
Politics as usual is politics as usual no matter which party it is.
Yes, McCain and Palin may “win” the election… but what will Americans “win” if they do?
Do you wish to debate whether Carter was a idiot or not? Do wish to debate whether he was an ethical person… or do you want to argue about the economy? Our elections are ALWAYS about the economy… our foreign policy is ALWAYS about the economy… our domestic policy is ALWAYS about the economy… our fiscal policies are ALWAYS about the economy… our moral and ethical policies are ALWAYS about the economy…”the business of Government IS business”. THAT is politics as usual. If that is what you care about, by all means vote for McCain. The economy will trudge along as usual. Jobs will continue to be shipped overseas, and the gap between the upper and lower classes will get larger and larger. As usual.(Just make sure you identify with the upper classes and not the lower classes, or you will be cutting your own throat.)
Indeed, the largest gap between the rich and poor since the Great Depression 1929.
Yep, Carter, Clinton, Reagan, all history. We need to deal with the future as anyone with eyes, including Stevie Wonder can see what a mess Bush and his policies have gotten us.
Do we really want 4 more years of this? Does anyone really believe off shore drilling will cure our oil ills?
We all can argue until the cows come home but you have to vote and we all have to take who is elected.
Here’s a dirty little secret about American politics: it doesn’t matter who the candidate is. The policies on ANY issue are only about as forward thinking as the next election.
Under Clinton, the Social Security Trust Fund was incorporated into the general fund (which is how the budget achieved the alleged surpluses). The Medicare Prescription Drug Plan was budgeted for ten years; most of the costs of the life of the plan were never planned for. During the Clinton administration, talk arose of drilling in ANWR and off the Gulf Coast — back then the “experts” said it would take ten years before we would have oil. And we’re still having the same argument.
You talk about how a McCain administration would be more of the same. Really, McCain… Obama… there’s really very little difference. Both of them are going to spend tremendous amounts of money the US doesn’t have (although, based on his acceptance speech, I would argue Obama is likely to spend more). And neither of them has a plan to eliminate all debts.
I’m not talking about the funding of the regular budget items: government departments, defense, emergency spending, etc. The greatest problems come from the promises of entitlement programs. The government says retirees will be guaranteed Social Security and medical care for the rest of their lives. Guaranteed. No questions asked. However, (1) more and more people are drawing upon these benefits while fewer and fewer people are supporting them; (2) people are living longer, which means more payouts to any given individual; and (3) health care costs, as everyone knows, are rising dramatically. So based upon estimates of what has already been promised, the government has somewhere in the neighborhood of $35T in unfunded mandates. Add to that the excesses in discretionary spending, and you have a government with something close to $53T (and growing $2-3T a year) worth of debt. And no amount of taxation on any economic group is going to solve this problem.
The real solution is going to be a combination of strict spending restraints, strong entitlement reforms, and shrinking the size of government. The candidate who is willing to address these problems with real solutions regardless of the political costs is the one who should be getting everyone’s attention… and vote.
So go ahead. Democrats can keep believing that all the problems of the world would be solved by the elimination of all Republicans in the country. And Republicans can dream of the inverse. And (as Emtronics stated above), you can argue until the cows come home. But in the end, all you are is $2-3T farther away from economic stability.
And for those of you who think I’m probably making all this up, I suggest you look up Mr David Walker — the former comptroller for the US. He was appointed by Reagan, reappointed by Clinton, confirmed both times with unanimous approval by the Senate. He resigned his position earlier this year, mostly out of frustration over the lack of reform taking place in Washington.
Anon E. Mouse â To summarize that Republican and crossover voters becoming paralyzed at the polls to the prospects of a full term McCain presidency is counter to his current public support in the polls. Do you really espouse that McCain’s conservative voter base exist to cheer on a “Dead Man Talking”? The use of name calling is never a positive trait or tactic in any “argument”, but when persons, organizations and government leaders willingly choose to toss science, common sense, logic and reality aside for the mere prerequisite of “singing in the RIGHT choir”, there is little left to do other than stamp a “crazy” label on their forehead and move on…
11Bravo â No, I’m not a doctor nor have I played one on TV. My non-professional assessment is based on the experiences of dealing with several relations battling Alzheimer’s and observing Ronald Reagan’s mental deterioration in the last years of his presidency, which was publicly minimized by himself, his staff and the Republican party. Considering what is at stake in 2008 for the Republican’s in loss of power and follow up congressional investigations into war crimes and U.S. Constitutional violations, a glossing-over of McCain’s health issues would be an easy stretch of ethics from the party that paved the way to war in Iraq on false intelligence. As for nominating a seriously ill presidential candidate, one needs only to look back to Jack Kennedy or that of Franklin Roosevelt’s 1944 election. At age 62, political bosses had little hope Franklin would live through his fourth term and swapped Henry Wallace (third term V.P./pro-Soviet) for Harry Truman (anti-Soviet). Good call on their part, but still a cover up. That’s why it’s as important to consider McCain’s V.P. as much as McCain himself. Palin is only a heart beat and a fluttering eyelash away from the presidency, and she is clearly not presently qualified for that office. Someday maybe, not now and never would have been asked had she not been a woman.
Diane Vespa â It’s clear the McCain or the Republican party bosses did not vet Gov. Palin throughly enough. A quick sweep of the principal Alaskan news papers and news blogs throws enough potentially fatal cracks into her glass ceiling; severely compromising the aggressive corruption fighting, gun toting, beast slaying Christian soccer mom facade generated by the Republican spin machine (Democrats are no better). Emerging news stories paint her as a vindictive politician from the get go (Nixon without the paranoia), a poor administrator and like John Kerry, god forbid, a flip-flopper. “For the Bridge To Nowhere” be for she was “against the bridge to nowhere”. Troopergate is just the beginning of her problems…
Scott A. Shepler: I love you man!
Scott A. Shepler:
Get over it…if Gov. Palin was truly a problem for Sen. McCain, Obama supporters wouldn’t be freaking out with all the personal attacks and misinformation. They know she’s a threat.
Also, do ya’ll know who intercepts Russian TU-95’s that fly close to American air space over the Arctic and North Pacific? The Alaska Air National Guard. Guess who is their Commander in Chief?
I agree with DPJ – all the wailing and arm waving by the Dems regarding the GOP VP choice is fear and anger. If the Dems truly thought she was an awful choice, they’d be saying, “Well – good luck with that” while rubbing their hands together and quietly ordering champagne deliveries for Nov. 4. Instead I see Weekly World News headlines “her baby isn’t even her baby!”
Well, this has made some things perfectly clear.
1. The campaign will not be about “experience”
2. It is obvious McCain will not be a “3rd Bush term” (never was but it is crystal clear to everyone else, now.)
3. Maybe – just maybe – this campaign will come down to issues.
If it does, my money is on McCain.
You are correct, Gov. Palin is a threat to Obama supporters and they are rightly concerned. There is sufficient time before the general election for “facts taken in context” (an rare incidental result for Karl Rove/right wing attack tactics)to amply discredit Gov. Palin as a rational pick for the V.P. slot. Personal attacks are the nature of politics, and no one does it better in the contemporary political battlefields as the Republicans. Look up past Swiftboating by GOP running mates of McCain in past presidential primaries. The crutch of misinformation won’t be need when the truth stands well on its own.
Equating Gov. Palin’s foreign policy experience to a superficial and principally domestic role as “Commander In Chief” of the Alaskan National Guard”is as irrational as crediting Clinton for the high tech boom or Al Gore as father of the internet. Maybe you give them credit for that as well…
Palin is technically the only one of the four with “executive experience.” Coupled with McCain’s past as Commanding Officer of the Navy’s largest squadron, “experience” is not as problem for the GOP ticket as it is for Obama-Biden. Palin’s status as Alaska ANG CinC is significant as it is a larger force than in other states due to the close proximity to Russia. Yes, these units coordinate with the USAF and the Governor has little or no involvement in their day-to-day operations, but can Obama say he’s actually been a CinC?
One problem Palin could have is that her unmarried teenage daughter, Bristol, is actually pregnant, but Dems’ expected sarcastic references to GOP “Family Values” rhetoric won’t fly this time. Not after Bill Clinton lowered the bar. At least she will keep the baby and plans to marry the father.
I do not see how “it is obvious” that McCain’s term[s] in office would not be a â3rd Bush term.â What have Bush’s approval ratings been during the last term of his pres? I wonder how much McCain considers Bush a liability(HA!)? Whether their politics are the same, similar, or night-and-day; most people are tired of REPUBLICAN crap…it will not matter who the GOP candidate is.
David Jordan,
If McCain picked Pee Wee Herman as his running mate the Dems would do well to consider him a threat. Their reaction is the ‘smart play.’ Your sense of ‘political logic’ is…. illogical.
New Voice,
Bush has low approval ratings, 28%, but the Dem-controlled Congress has a 9% approval rating. So who does the public dislike the least? With Obama-Biden ideologically associated with the Legislative Branch, with its 9%, and McCain-Palin ideologically associated with the Executive Branch, with its 28%, who do you think has the better chance of winning the WH this time around?
I shouldn’t jump into this argument, but how many of our presidents have had “executive” experience before becoming president? Much is being made of Palin’s “executive” experience–probably because that is the only kind of experience she has. I don’t always pay attention during political campaigns, but has any other candidate of note based all his/her credentials on “executive” experience–minus their stand on several conservation issues, of course? To have “political” executive experience, does one have to have been a governor or a mayor? Would executive experience in a company count–or a college president? Let’s see–would being a school administrator or superintendent(isn’t that educational designation for “exectutive”) count? If all such experiences count as “executive,” could we say that any people who have held such positions would make good presidents–without taking a very close look at all their “executive” decisions? We haven’t had time to do that yet with Palin–and I don’t think McCain has either. What a dumb argument–I know, but pinning all her qualifications on the assertion that she has “executive” experience seems a bit shallow, to me any way. We can argue until the cows come home about her qualifications and also as to whether or not Obama has executive experience or enough legislative experience or foreign relations experience and then whether or not he has the judgment, etc., to be President of the United States. I know for myself my mind is made up–and it is probably for reasons that could be attacked from all sides. But I’m Obama all the way. I spend considerable time with good friends who are conservative Republicans, so I tiptoe around the subject without showing my outright joy (which might be offensive to some) for having this opportunity for the first time in my life to vote for a black presidential candidate–and since I’ll soon be 71, I thought maybe I’d never have the chance, so I’m taking it for all the reasons that make me feel good about the world right now–it seems to me a symbolic way of putting some of the rotten racial stuff behind us. It might not be a lasting feeling, but I’ll enjoy it for now. I’m glad it’s Obama–because I would not have felt the same or even voted for Jesse Jackson–Colon Powell, probably. I know that almost everyone who responds to this blog (and amost everyone I know) has already made of his/her mind about this vote. And it’s grand to live in a country where we can express our views opening. So express on and I will listen while remaining firm in my decision. I may not give Obama the same chance for his second time around if I follow my usual pattern. I gave Clinton only one chance and Bush only one chance. I am fickle.
David P. Jordan â
#1. McCain was a insubordinate Naval Academy student graduating 5th from the bottom of his class, saved from expulsion by dear daddy Admiral, a half-ass pilot totaling two navy jets through pilot error, a third through suspect mechanical failure, a fourth through accident and the fifth by surface to air missile for a total time of 20 combat hours. Any other Naval officer would have been “retired at two questionable A/C looses but dear daddy Admiral saved his ass once again. He has my admiration and gratitude for the courage and fortitude show in engaging combat and five years(?) of hell in Hanoi, honestly don’t know if I could have done the same. The fact of the matter is, he was a reckless Naval officer that endangered fellow airmen and sailors and would of been removed from service well before combat if not for the repeated intervention of his father the Admiral. Some “executive” experience”!
#2. Gov. Palin’s support of the Bush administrations pillaging of personal and equipment from Reserve and Nation Guard units have left them critically under funded, under staffed, under trained and under equipped. Aircraft and support equipment are being burned out at an unprecedented rate and not replaced nor the “flight” of experienced flight crews and young officers due to extended tours and stop loss measures. Gov. Palin is really emulating the untimate “Commander In Chief” in Washington. I’m sure she’s doing, “A heck of a job” in that roll in Alaska with the pile of tired crap her good friend Dubya left her to defend against Russia’s recon efforts. The majority of the U.S. Presidential candidates lacked any official “Commander in Chief” experience, but it didn’t seem to have helped the “Decider” from Texas in any way.
#3. If Gov. Palin’s daughter is pregnant, I hope the press and politics leave her the hell alone. It looks like the daughter and grandchild will have a good support group during and after, unlike many women who Palin would be happy to enforce an unwanted and/or life threatening pregnancy on. Besides, Momma Palin does know how to use a shot gun very well… so not marrying is pretty much out of the question for the poor boy.
#4. McCain “lowered the bar” long before Slick Willie started getting some action. Know as a major player in the Naval Academy, McCain bailed on his formally beautiful (pre-POW years) wife following a severe life threatening and disfiguring auto accident during his POW years. What a reward for a woman who raised the kids as a single mom for 5 years. McCain paid off this wife with the fortunes of the current wife, Cindy McCain. Rumors of further skirt chasing continued. Despite Hill & Bill’s personal behavior (don’t care for either one of them), I never heard of Chelsy Clinton being dragged drunk repeatedly out of bars for underage drinking or getting “knocked up”. Yep, Republican’s have such a monopoly on “family values”.
Sharon Crews â
Great words to live by! Thanks for sharing.
Mr. Shepler – if you are going to use number (especially in #1) then you best cite sources.
From:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/specials/mccain/articles/0301mccainbio-chapter3.html
“On Oct. 26, McCain would fly his 23rd run over North Vietnam, joining a 20-plane mission to bomb a power plant in the capital city of Hanoi, which had been off-limits to U.S. attacks.”
23rd mission and 20 combat hours does not compute. That would mean sorties of less than an hour.
Anon E. Mouse â
#1. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_11_16/ai_61361646
http://www.forandagainst.com/articles/McCain_s_Military_Record_Shows_He_Is_Unfit_To_Be_President
http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2008/02/02/mccains-military-career/
http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/06/have_you_heard_mccain_was_a_po.php
As pointed out above, McCain had the dubious distinction of being a “reverse ace” having lost five of his own planes. At least three of those appear to be from negligence on McCain’s part. Inquiries were held each time, but the records of those inquiries have never been made public. Also, he never got a command above squadron commander (75 planes). He was never given a ship command even though he achieved the rank of captain — that’s got to be the only time that’s ever happened in the history of the Navy. Finally, he was awarded twenty-eight combat medals for twenty hours of combat. I mention that since Kerry’s medals were such a big deal in the last election. I expect to see the media looking into McCain’s record very soon.
Posted by Jose Padilla | June 27, 2008 10:54 AM
NOTE/Shepler: Have not been able yet to confirm his lack of ship command yet.
http://timbuk3.com/blog/index.php?blog=2&title=mccain_lost_five_u_s_navy_aircraft&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
That enough for ya? From what I can tell, the 20 hours are estimates made by the navy. For missions just off the coast in a 500 mph+ jet and with the last mission being a one way trip, I dont think the 23 mission to 20 hours ratio to be out of line.
#2.http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20080227/ai_n24349656
“…Air Force officials tell us aging jet fighters, bombers and other aircraft are “at the breaking point” and need to be replaced. Much of our military aircraft are more than 20 years old and have undergone extensive wear and tear over the past five years. That means our debt-ridden nation needs to spend
$100 billion or more for new aircraft if we’re to retain our military advantage aloft. ”
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1219/p03s01-usmi.html
#3. Well, the shot gun is just speculation on my part, but if she follows her political history, that boy is history if loyalty is not sworn to the “Godmother”.
#4. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-divorce11-2008jul11,0,5924926,full.story
What else you want to know?
Anon E. Mouse â
#1.
http://timbuk3.com/blog/index.php?blog=2&title=mccain_lost_five_u_s_navy_aircraft&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_11_16/ai_61361646
http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/06/have_you_heard_mccain_was_a_po.php
As pointed out above, McCain had the dubious distinction of being a “reverse ace” having lost five of his own planes. At least three of those appear to be from negligence on McCain’s part. Inquiries were held each time, but the records of those inquiries have never been made public. Also, he never got a command above squadron commander (75 planes). He was never given a ship command even though he achieved the rank of captain — that’s got to be the only time that’s ever happened in the history of the Navy. Finally, he was awarded twenty-eight combat medals for twenty hours of combat. I mention that since Kerry’s medals were such a big deal in the last election. I expect to see the media looking into McCain’s record very soon.
Posted by Jose Padilla | June 27, 2008 10:54 AM
NOTE/Shepler: Haven’t confirmed McCain’s lack of ship command.
http://www.forandagainst.com/articles/McCain_s_Military_Record_Shows_He_Is_Unfit_To_Be_President
http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2008/02/02/mccains-military-career/
NOTE/Shepler: Coastal missions flown from an aircraft carrier in a 500 mph+ A/C plus the last one way mission puts the ratio of missions to flight time within probability. My guess is the 20 hours is a Navy estimate.
#2.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1219/p03s01-usmi.html
#3. The shot gun marriage is just speculation on my part, but if she follows her Alaskan political conventions, that boy better swear loyalty to this “Godmother” if he knows what’s good for him.
#4.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-divorce11-2008jul11,0,5924926,full.story
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html
Enough?
Mr. Jordan,
Your logic slays me. I have looked at [Congressional Job Approval] poll[s] as far back as the Clinton years. Approval ratings have NEVER been high. What do you expect in America where politics are a necessary evil. I still believe that most voters are going to reduce this down to ‘party politics.’ Also, fair play or not, Palin and/or the media seem to be digging her hole deeper………
Nice try with the mind numbed robot and dishonest Chicago Machine/Daily Kos/Democratic Underground tactics…
It’s obvious that folks like Mr. Schepler are bothered by Palin’s selection. The media speculation Friday morning drowned out Obama’s highly-anticipated DNC convention acceptance speech and suppressed his bounce.
All year, we’ve heard Obama this and Obama that, and now with just 62 days left until Election Day, John McCain (who would not have been commanding officer of the Navy’s largest squadron had he been “insubordinant”) has managed to replace it with media and public interest in the first woman that would be vice president.
No guarantee on the outcome at this point, but as a result of his campaign’s creative criticism of Obama’s so-called strengths, exploitation of his known weaknesses and selection of Sarah Palin, McCain has a real shot at being the next president.
Scott Shepler… I love you, man.
Anon E. Mouse,
If we are going to have to cite sources, well……, where is the fun in that?
David, you forgot about Geraldine Ferraro. SHE was the “first woman who would be vice-president.”
Of course, she was NOT the first woman who BECAME vice-president.
We can only pray that Palin is not, either.
The difference between McCain/Palin and Mondale/Ferraro is that McCain/Palin actually stand a chance of being elected. The Democratic ticket of ’84 never stood a chance.
Oh, by the time the November election rolls around, McCain and Hockey Mom won’t be standing a chance, either. As the next two months roll by, the voting public will have plenty of time to fully understand the holes in the “McCain Option,” and the absurdity of even the THOUGHT of Hockey Mom as Vice President.
McCain will be lucky to get 100 electoral votes. It will be an Obama walk in the park.
Bank on it.
David P. Jordan: Sorry, but Gov. Palin has nothing to do with intercepting Russian flights. Here’s a quote from a CBS News article of 8/31/08:
Maj. Gen. Craig Campbell, adjutant general of the Alaska National Guard, considers Palin “extremely responsive and smart” and says she is in charge when it comes to in-state services, such as emergencies and natural disasters where the National Guard is the first responder.
But, in an interview with The Associated Press on Sunday, he said he and Palin play no role in national defense activities, even when they involve the Alaska National Guard. The entire operation is under federal control, and the governor is not briefed on situations.
David P. Jordan: “freaking out”?? Not so much, at least not my well-populated circles of democratic/liberal/progressive friends and acquaintances. “Worried” doesn’t even apply. Gleeful is perhaps closer to the truth. Feeling a bit of schadenfreude maybe. I honestly keep wondering whether someone paid McCain to throw the election.
Lisa,
I never said she was briefed or gave them orders of battle, but as Alaska governor, she is the state ANG’s Commander in Chief. Obviously, it’s ceremonial, but can Sen. Obama claim such a title? If the president never sends forces into battle, s/he only receives a daily intelligence briefing. Her experience in dealing with corporations who seek to exploit Alaska’s natural resources and other issues typical of states can be applied to foreign policy. Of course, there is a reason the president’s cabinet includes a foreign affairs expert with the title, “Secretary of State.”
Prego Man – bookmarked
lisa sez: “Gleeful is perhaps closer to the truth.”
I sez: Look at the responses here. Freaking out is much closer than ‘gleeful.’ Why else are we seeing obvious falsehoods brazenly paraded as ‘proof” (see Scott Shepler and Cgiselle posts).
DPJ: So I guess we can agree that her position w/regard to the Alaska National Guard has no bearing on her fitness to deal with matters of foreign policy or national defense.
Ceremonial titles don’t impress me much, so I don’t really care whether or not Obama has any. I don’t think he’s ever won Miss Congeniality either.
As for her “dealing with corporations wanting to exploit Alaska’s natural resources,” as far as I can see she has no problem with said exploitation. It would be interesting to translate that stance to foreign policy vis-a-vis other nations. I’ll let someone else follow that line of reasoning to its logical conclusion.
As for a Secretary of State, I do believe Obama will have one, too.
So I guess we can agree that her position w/regard to the Alaska National Guard has no bearing on her fitness to deal with matters of foreign policy or national defense.
No…she’s a governor, and though for less than two years, has the so-called “executive experience” Obama lacks. On Wednesday, we will all see whether Palin is up to it.
As for a Secretary of State, I do believe Obama will have one, too.
Obama will need one. A good one.
Oh com eon, stop with the executive experience baloney. If the shoe were on the other foot (and it is)the Republicans would be whining about the lack of foreign policy experience and lack of executive experience of the Democrat candidate (and they are).
The reason why this is so much more “newsworthy” is because the VP is supposed to HELP the President’s chances… Note: Biden has plenty of experience and helps Obama’s ticket… Palin does nothing except bring a female into the equation… that and a fundamentalist (supposedly). Those are McCain’s biggest weaknesses that can be fixed by a VP. Unfortunately, she will turn out to help with neither category.
“I sez: Look at the responses here. Freaking out is much closer than âgleeful.â Why else are we seeing obvious falsehoods brazenly paraded as âproofâ (see Scott Shepler and Cgiselle posts).”
-Anon E. Mouse,
“Obvious Falsehoods?” I see only interpretations. CNN was going on today about the possibility of many conserves identifying with the plight of Palin’s daughter. You know; the old, “WOW! Palin and her family are just like the rest of us, just good-old folks with a few ‘problems’!” I am NOT saying that these issues should have anything to do with the race, but they will. It is going to be a little difficult to listen to the ultra-conserve Palin start her ‘preaching.’
Obvious falsehoods:
1. Cgiselle and the “Palin’s baby isn’t really HER baby”
2. Shepler with the “23 missions is less than 20 hours”
McCain launched from the USS Forrestal about 100 miles off the coast of Da Nang and was shot down over Hanoi, ~ 400 miles away
3. Shepler also forgets that at least one of the 5 airplanes destroyed while McCain was in the cockpit was not moving at the time. It was hit by a rolling bomb during the USS Forrestal accident that killed 134 sailors.
4. Shepler refers us to a Daily mail article about McCains divorce. I quote, “Carol (McCain) insists she remains on good terms with her ex-husband, who agreed as part of their divorce settlement to pay her medical costs for life. âI have no bitterness,â
she says. âMy accident is well recorded. I had 23 operations, I am five inches shorter than I used to be and I was in hospital for six months. It was just awful, but it wasnât the reason for my divorce.”
Let me repeat her words again, “It was just awful, but it wasnât the reason for my divorce.”
It didn’t take me long to shoot holes in these accusations. So, yeah, I think Shelper is purposefully misstating things.
Anon E. Mouse âObvious another poison Kool-Aid drinker:
1. I have never posted a single word about Gov. Palin and the false pregnancy “babygate” rumor. I thought it too far fetched to be a viable news story and should die its own deserved death. I did find her behavior and risks taken to deliver in Alaska irresponsible, but her and her husband are adults and make their own poor choices. What I did say was the press should leave her DAUGHTER Bristol alone and let them deal with HER pregnancy, in private. If you’re going to criticize my comments, please make a little more effort to be more accurate…
2. I haven’t been able to find a direct source for either the 23 mission count or the estimated 20 hours total combat time. This site does source the stats for the 23 missions/20 hours combat figures: http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_mccain_lost_five_u.htm
“For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals.
“McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat,” explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs — the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. “Since McCain got 28 medals,” Bell continues, “that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys — grunts on the ground — who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I’m sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down.”
I’m going to see if McCain has any information in his books regarding these stats. I would guess that Bill Bell acquired these numbers directly from naval records. I haven’t been able to find direct information on average mission sortie times, but a quick web search gives an A-4 Skyhawk Max-v of 670 MPH and tactical radius of 340 MI with a 4K bomb load. Depending on the distance the carrier operated from shore, ordinance carried, number aerial refueling, weather, missions aborted and McCains last mission being a one way trip, 20 hours total combat time is well within reason. In the mean time, you’ll just have to satisfy yourself by calling Bell a liar.
3. Here you get another comment criticism incorrect. From an earlier comment I wrote:
“David P. Jordan â
#1. McCain was a insubordinate Naval Academy student graduating 5th from the bottom of his class, saved from expulsion by dear daddy Admiral, a half-ass pilot totaling two navy jets through pilot error, a third through suspect mechanical failure, a fourth through accident and the fifth by surface to air missile for a total time of 20 combat hours.”
If you had bother to review my links or done further research beyond FOX News, you would of discovered the following:
1st A/C â McCain lost the first A/C while practicing carrier landings. PILOT ERROR!
2nd A/C â McCain was screwing around and snagged electrical transmission lines and ejected. PILOT ERROR!
3rd A/C â Flamed out returning solo from an Army-Navy game and ejected. The Navy let him pass on this one as well. Could of been purely mechanical in nature, he could of ran out of gas. Maybe pilot error, maybe not. Daddy Admiral made sure the public would never know for sure…
4th A/C âAnother inaccurate correction on your part!I earlier stated “… a fourth through accident…” The tragic 1967 incident on the USS Forrestal involving McCain’s A-4E Skyhawk resulted from a temperamental Zuni rocket released from an F-4 Phantom located behind McCain’s A/C. The resulting strike dislodged a fuel tank and a 1K bomb in which the ensuing fire killed the F-4 pilot, 134 crewmen and destroyed or damaged over 20 A/C and the near loss of the carrier itself. NOT BY A BOMB ROLLING ACROSS THE DECK AS YOU STATED; WRONG AGAIN! Some witness and investigators claim McCain was using a technique called “wet-starting” which causes a spectacular shooting flame following engine ignition to harass the trailing F-4 pilot. This resulted in “cooking off” the rocket and setting events in motion. Others claim McCain panicked and released the bomb accidently. Additional witness claim an errant electrical signal caused the rocket to fire, absolving McCain of any wrong doing. McCain once again narrowly escapes with minor shrapnel wounds and is immediately transfered from the USS Forrestal to the USS Oriskany. I’ll give McCain the benefit of the doubt on this one, but a lot of veterans still hold him accountable for the event. This is yet another mess Daddy Admiral had to clean up. YouTube has some incredible video of truly heroic actions taken that day. Those men’s actions alone should dictate the real truth be know of that event. Rumor has it that the Neo-Con bosses obtained the naval investigation report and blackmailed McCain into dropping his earlier bid for president. Ya, the plane wasn’t moving as you stated, but somehow McCain was at the controls of yet another aviation disaster…
5th A/C âWell, we all know how this one ended, but I have tremendous admiration for his sheer bravery of flying into combat. Gotta give the man his props for that.
4. So far your wrong 4 for 4 on my comments. If you had taken the time to look at the Los Angeles Times link I posted you’d find the full story behind McCain’s divorce and subsequent abandonment of his first wife Carol McCain: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-divorce11-2008jul11,0,5924926,full.story
“In a written statement, she” (Nancy Reagan) “described McCain as “a good friend for over 30 years.” But that friendship was strained in the late 1970s by McCain’s decision to divorce his first wife, Carol, who was particularly close to the Reagans, and within weeks marry Cindy Hensley, the young heiress to a lucrative Arizona beer distributorship.
The Reagans rushed to help Carol, finding her a new home in Southern California with the family of Reagan aide Edwin Meese III and a series of political and White House jobs to ease her through that difficult time.”
Relating again to the LA Times article, McCain lied about when his relationship with the future Cindy McCain started, well before the divorce from Carol. That would make him a what… ADULTERER? Where’s “Church Lady” when you need her…
If you had been fully truthful about the the Daily Mail article, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html, you would included the following:
“Ted Sampley, who fought with US Special Forces in Vietnam and is now a leading campaigner for veteransâ rights, said: âI have been following John McCainâs career for nearly 20 years. I know him personally. There is something wrong with this guy and let me tell you what it is â deceit.
âWhen he came home and saw that Carol was not the beauty he left behind, he started running around on her almost right away. Everybody around him knew it.”
So not only did McCain totally piss-off the Reagans, but also Ross Perot, who paid most of Carol’s medical bills. Carol’s cooperative silence was a product of McCains’s ability to make Carol believe she was the cause of John’s infedelity and an impediment to his political and economic goals, along with a shit load of Cindy Hensley father’s money. The guy is a pure player through and through, Slick Willie in a thousand dollar suit.
Heres another little factoid for you Mr. Mouse about our potential new First Lady:
Cindy McCain shares Rush Limbaugh’s experience as an ex-hillbilly heroin addict!
The Arizona Republic, August 24, 1994 — “Cindy McCain, the wife of U.S. Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona, admitted in a series of media interviews Monday that she became addicted to the painkillers Percocet and Vicodin. She said that she used the drugs from 1989 to 1992 and acknowledged that she had stolen some pills from the American Voluntary Medical Team, a charitable organization of which she is president . . . at one point, McCain, 40, was ingesting 15 to 20 pills a day . . . the normal dosage for seriously ill patients is 6 to 10 a day for a short period.”
Looks like Cindy used her wealth to avoid one single day in jail, just like Rush! Ditto that…
In the future, take a little more time taking aim before “shooting holes” at “accusations”. At the very least, pull your foot out before firing next time.
Wow. Mr. Shepler can’t (or won’t) read.
He starts off by simply missing the fact that I did not credit him with the “babygate” rumor.
Then he admits he can’t find a credible source for his statement regarding flight times even though I pretty much discredit the flimsy accusation that he only had 20 hours of combat service.
Furthermore, he questions the medals McCain received. Twenty-eight medals he says.
I see sixteen, including two awarded by the Republic of Vietnam and two for the blockade of Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis. (from Wikipedia)
Silver Star
Legion of Merit with Combat V and one gold star
Distinguished Flying Cross
Bronze Star with Combat V and two gold stars
Purple Heart with one gold star
Meritorious Service Medal
Air Medal with one bronze star and Numeral “2”
Navy Commendation Medal with Combat V and one gold star
Combat Action Ribbon
Prisoner of War Medal
Navy Expeditionary Medal (Cuban quarantine)
Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal (Cuban quarantine)
National Defense Service Medal
Vietnam Service Medal with two bronze stars
National Order of Vietnam (Republic of Vietnam)
Vietnam Campaign Medal with device (Republic of Vietnam)
Next, Shepler lays the blame for the Forrestal Fire at the feet of Mr. McCain. McCain’s plane http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CVA-59_fire_aft_deck_plan.png pictured here as #416 or the neighboring #405 was struck by a missile from the plane marked #110. Mr. Shepler is trying to tell us that by “cooking off” his engines, McCain somehow lit off a missile on another plane across the decka nd in the opposite direction to McCain exhaust.
Finally, Mr. McCain has been quoted as saying that his biggest mistake or failure was his first marriage and the way it ended. He acknowledges the failure of the marriage was his fault. I am sure it was a very painful affair, but to think that he left his wife because she was disfigured in an accident 11-years prior (and six years after his return) when SHE SAYS that’s not the reason is beyond reason.
Now Mr.Shepler wants to go back 14-16 years and dig up a drug problem Cindy McCain had. When the worst you can say about a potential candidate is that his wife has/had a drug problem, you are truly reaching for straws.
The name calling that follows should not come as a surprise. With the “ex-hillbilly heroin addict” statement, I believe you have truly shown yourself.
Mr. Shepler is outraged, outraged that I have exposed the truth in these matters.
My only question to all is, with all the problems in the world right now, if the next President of the US is killed or dies, who do you want in the oval office, Sarah Palin or Joe Biden?
With the threat of assasination of President Obama, and the advanced age and illnesses of a President McCain, this is a legitimate question.
Sarah Palin.