The following info just hit my mailbox while I was home for lunch:
Mr. Curt Craig from Cub Foods in Minneapolis [said] they are closing the Midtown Plaza Cub Food Store. […] This will happen the first part of March, with the last employees leaving mid-March.
You remember Midtown Plaza. The City paid $5.5 million to clear the land (including knocking down old ladies’ houses on Dechman) required to make way for this project and made the area a TIF district after rejecting their own consultant’s report that said this was a bad deal for the City. They listened to the developer’s consultants instead.
The city’s consultant (Development Strategies, Inc.) predicted, according to a Journal Star editorial on 3/9/1999, that Cub Foods “would draw 90 percent of its customers from other city grocery stores.” Joseph’s consultants (Melaniphy & Associates, Inc.; Deloitte & Touche) predicted “43 percent of revenues would come from customers living outside the city” and that Cub Foods “would draw customers from a 10-mile radius.”
The city’s consultant was right. After Cub Foods opened, Thompson’s/Sullivan’s and John Bee both closed. With the loss of Cub Foods, where are East Bluff residents supposed to go for groceries now?
Also, will the city get a refund on that TIF money from the developer?
CJ sez: With the loss of Cub Foods, where are East Bluff residents supposed to go for groceries now?
I sez:
Kroger on Wisconsin.
Yep. Any others?
I wonder if it’s too late to get HyVee to move into MidTown instead of Sheridan Village?
Cub Foods wouldn’t be closing if they had a strong customer base. I think the East Bluff residents were not shopping the store anyway. My guess is that many of them take the short ride over the bridge to Wal-Mart. Everytime I went in the store is has looked great, but there was only a few shoppers in there. Traffic is the lifeblood of a grocery store and without sufficient numbers will be unable to maintain freshness and profitablity.
Midtown Cub is my usual first choice if I run out for something after the Save A Lot in my neighborhood is closed, so I’m kind of sad about this.
And then angry when I remember that the city used eminent domain to take home-owners’ property to get this thing opened in the first place.
I agree with what Mike is saying, but that’s why the city shouldn’t be in the business of betting on developers with TIFs and eminent domain. If the developer can’t make it work with his own cash, then it won’t work.
The government can’t create economic growth. It never works. And when they try all they do is hurt it.
IT’S BETTER HERE.. RIGHT ?
Feel free to find someplace where it is better “kev”.
HyVee in Canton is expensive. More expensive than Krogers. So I doubt it would be better to have HyVee in Mid-town.
We supported this store since it opened. I wonder what will become of the rest of midtown plaza? Will it become a Sunnyland plaza? Guess it was a good run while it lasted. Now what about the TIF?
Marty, Another citizen emailed me with your question. Here is the response ….
Dick,
Thank you for your email. This is initial response to your question. I have contacted Randy Ray, Corporation Council for the City and he will be preparing more specific information, but I believe this will answer your general question
David Joseph will ONLY have to pay the real estate and 90% sales taxes generated on site (pledged revenues). The City, on the other hand will have to pay the total Bond indebtedness which over the life of the bonds will be around $11,000,000 ($5.5 Million plus interest). This is because the “pledged revenues” first apply to the bonds, but Midtown Bonds are GENERAL OBLIGATION Bonds so the City will have to pick up the difference in the revenue shortfall and bond payments. The Real Estate Taxes will not drop immediately, nor will the sales taxes from adjacent businesses, but the City, i.e. YOU, not the Developer will be responsible for any shortfall in sales tax revenues lost by the closing of Cubs and those necessary for the yearly Bond payment.
THE DEVELOPER WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY LOSS OF REPAYMENT.
Gary Sandberg, At Large
PS. Here are the Council members that voted for these $5.5 Million General Obligation Bonds ($11 Million repayment out of TAX DOLLARS and the economy over the life of the Bonds)
Turner, Ardis,. Nichting, Spears, Duncan, Gibson, Thetford, Grieves, Morris, Greyeb, YAY
Sandberg NAY
PPS. Here are the Council members that voted for the General Obligation Bonds for $39.5 Million General Obligation Bonds for DOWNTOWN HOTEL (Total repayment of approximately $78.000.000 over life of those G.O. bonds
Turner, Ardis,. Nichting, Spears, Gulley, VanAuken, Manning, Spain, Montelongo, Jacob YAY
Sandberg NAY
what ever happened to the “four horseman”?
Gary
What amount time and $$$ is left on the Midtown TIF? Is there any incentive for the owner to fill this vacancy soon? Guess it could be a mega payday loan store or a huge “Big Al’s” Ha!
I remember the talk when the council voted this one in. This plaza was going to save the neighborhood. Ya, right.
I used to shop at this CUB on my way home from work. I live out North Knoxville and thought it was convenient and had fair prices. Many people I know would not shop there because they felt it was “unsafe.” I have to believe many others did to because there is a lot of traffic that flows by that store.
Sandberg’s post is very helpful. I don’t remember getting that clear of a breakdown of the financing from the PJS at the time.
Marty, Specific as to length of term left is what Randy Ray and Jim Scroggins are developing, but I’m guessing that at least 10-12 of the 20 years remain. How long have you been shopping there?
No incentive for the Developer which is the real critical issue with a tenant closing down. I can NOT say categorically, b ut I bet the Developer has a lease that assures him of his rent payments even if the business (Cubs) leave. This was the case when Thompsons closed down at CampusTown and when the rib place left Riverfront Village. In both cases the developer was assured of getting revenue (maybe without incentive clauses based on gross revenues) from the departing tenant so there is no incentive for the Developer to have the space develope revenue.
Councils back in the Carver era understood and appreciated the differences between General Obligation Bonds and Revenue Bonds. G.O. Bonds pledge the full faith and credit of the municipality behind then when issued. Revenue Bonds, in theory are only supported by the pledged revenues, in this case the real estate taxes and 90% of the sales taxes generated within the project area. Revenue Bonds have higher interests rates so they yeild less money. Recent Councils acting in the interests of the developer and NOT the taxpayer have used General Obligation Bonds and all the other “incentives” like emminent domain which consolidate large land parcels and hand the land value over to the Developer. Meanwhile the Developer protects him/herself with EXTENDED YEARS RENT/LEASE PAYMENTS to assure minimum impact to the REVEDNUE STREAM OWED to THE DEVELOPER and meanwhile the developer is off the hook for land costs and clearance costs.
What everyone also has to understand that in a TIF area that remains as a revenue source to pay off the bonds, all sales tax that should be paying for basic essential services is used to pay off the bonds. WIth respect to Midtown Plaza, approximately $550,000 every year for twenty years (half million dollars per year) ended up paying for land/clearing costs instead of CSO, Fire Stations, etc.
For that reason, I shop at Krogers on Wisconsin eventho I can see the Cub lot out my window. Building and financing of consumer related businesses do NOT create the additionaal customers which support the business is why three grocery stores closed with construction of Cubs as earlier post stated.
Now in a period of National recession, the recklessness off Council’s to pledge G.O Bonds will mean LESS money for essential services although for those that shoppped in those projects the money essential services havee been lost with each purchase.
The downtown Hotel deal just bumped the risk level 7.5 times based on that G.O. Bond…………. and if sucessful enough to pay off the bonds, but without a commensuate increase in hotel nights for all existing hotels, those hotels that lose business will pay less taxes and those taxes will not BE AVAILABLE for basic essential services.
I wonder who bought the bonds? Any odds some of them were bought by the developers?
Add Lone Star Steakhouse to the empty buildings list. Absolutely no notice to anyone, including employees, ala Leonardos.
Lone Star–when did that happen? I guess I didn’t go often enough–but still one of my favorite places.
Unfortunately, new grocery stores (or other new businesses) and new schools in deteriorating neighborhoods don’t change the neighborhoods or draw new people in. District 150 is pinning their hopes on that dream–I just don’t see it happening.
It’s better here if you live in North Peoria. Anywhere else in town, not so much.
Gary’s insights on very enlightening. I was “frustrated” when the Library could not work out a deal to locate the North branch in the location of the old Thompson’s at Northpoint. It appeared the Library was circling their wagons around that spot but were unable to negotiate an acceptable price. Now I better understand why the developer had not reason to lower the price even though the property had been vacant for many years. With the financial setup described by Gary, the Developer has no incentive to fill empty spots. The community in a sense is held hostage by the developer and is stuck looking at decaying, half-full strip malls. Discouraging isn’t it.
Gary, will you consider running for mayor? I know you often lack the proper social graces, but don’t let that interfere. (I feel your pain.) You do the research. You have the brains. You have the integrity. Many people out here appreciate the perspective you bring. I – and I am sure many others – would donate to your campaign.
This is no time in our history or in our economy for people to shy away from duty.
But I suppose the time to file for this go round has passed, right?
write in…write in…write in…Sandberg
The building is still there, right? Is there a guarantee that nothing will ever locate in it again? This was just announced, for crying out loud! All of this “doom talk” from the ultra-conservatice PJS and then the crying from the ultra-libertarian bloggers is a bit premature, wouldn’t you say?
There’s no guarantee, whatsoever, that the taxpayers will have to pay up the $5 million plus. If the building is subdivided for a number of retailers, or another large retailer locates there, it might be back to usual (or close to it) in relatively short order. Quit bellyaching. Holdidays must really be fun at your houses and at Mike Bailey’s ultra-right wing “don’t put any tax payer money out, other than on defense” abode.
bentone:
You are correct. If …….
…. just look around at the other ‘ifs’ in town and then you might be able to understand the concerns of people whose viewpoint is different than your own.
well we know at least 6 or 7 people who would vote for him anyway.
It is to late to be a write-in candidate.
The Council doesn’t care where the people on the East Bluff shop; if they did the East Bluff wouldn’t be in the sorry state that it is. As for consultants, we all know that for the right fee you can find a consultant who will statistically “prove” that the moon is made of green cheese. The City just decided to accept the opinion they wanted. The real question is how much do these developers contribute to campaign funds and the like? I could be wrong, but I just don’t think that Gary is the only councilman with any brains. There is a reason the council votes for these deals.
Too Late? Not in a Democracy it isn’t.
The pre-printed ballot is a luxury.
“The Council doesn’t care where the people on the East Bluff shop”
Oh not true at all. They would care if all those East Bluffers started shopping at the North Peoria Wal-Mart or the Wal-Mart in Washington (well the Washington City Council would care..lol). Don’t want to scare all those comfortable upper middle class types…
Is it true Dave Joseph is Bill Spears father-in-law? I have been told this just have never been able to confirm it.
mahkno, the people who run Peoria don’t shop at Walmart, and most of the “upper middle class types” you obviously don’t like, are anything but “comfortable” right now. Their investments are tanking, their jobs are in jeopardy, and their taxes are going up (for such nonsense as a musuem, for heaven’s sake?). The truth is, the people who shop at the North Peoria Walmart aren’t much different than the people who shop at Cub on Knoxville. Most are minding their own business; trying to provide for their families as best they can; and none of them really care to be mugged while doing their shopping.
kcdad,
It is too late to file as a write-in, their won’t be an option on the ballot.
I have shopped at Cub on Knoxville many many times, even after dark and have never felt threatened or in danger there. I also frequent the Popeye’s there as well as ChinaTown restaurant and have never had a problem in that neighborhood.
Maybe some people feel threatened there because a lot of the people do not look like them.
“the people who shop at the North Peoria Wal-mart aren’t much different than the people who shop at Cub on Knoxville.”
LOL… Mouse, have YOU actually been in both locations? I assure you, the difference is as clear as black and white. The difference in the clientele’s social well being between the Wal-Mart in North Peoria versus the Wal-Mart in East Peoria, is also quite different.
Sure. And I’m right. Just because someone is poor doesn’t mean they have some incurable disease. Most poor people are decent, law-abiding citizens, who have pretty much the same values and goals as “middle class” citizens. Poor people may not have the latest fashions, or talk quite as eloquently, or whatever, but they’re not that different. Perhaps the “black and white” comment was racial, but, sorry, I don’t buy that either. Black people in Peoria are not that much different on the whole than white people, or Asian people, or any other people. Most all people in the Peoria area just want to be able to earn a decent living, live in relative safety, enjoy their kids, and not be hassled by the govt. Really. Not all black people are drug dealers.
Early indications are that Lone Star will pay its employees.
That can’t be true in America. Do you mean if 50,000 voters wrote in Gary Sandberg or anyone else it wouldn’t count?
My God, what have we done to this country?
kcdad — Theoretically, if 50,000 voters wrote in Gary Sandberg, but he wasn’t a valid write-in candidate, no it wouldn’t count.
But what Tom is saying is that we have electronic voting machines, and since there are no write-in candidates registered, the voters won’t have the physical ability to write in a candidate because the electronic ballot won’t have a “write-in” option on it. There is no place to write in anything.
kcdad: At the City’s website at this link http://www.ci.peoria.il.us/resourcesmodule/view/id/2592/src/@random47601bad5543a/
You will find the Write-in Candidate Form. I do not know what date that it needed to be filed.
Reading this: http://www.ci.peoria.il.us/resourcesmodule/view/id/2941/src/@random47601bad5543a/
Says you have to file a notarized intent to be a write in candidate 61 days before the election. That would put it Feb 5th as a filing deadline.
“it wouldn’t count?”
Well consider this… if 50,000 people went in and voted for John Smith, it might be nice to know which John Smith it was. Thus the notarized intent to be a write in candidate requirement, so that you can correctly identify who it is exactly that is being written in. The only complaint I have is that there is a 61 day requirement ‘before’ and election. Seems like a really long time. In the Gordan vs Krupa race, we found out all sorts of unfortunate things about the candidates. I would have gladly voted for a write in, but alas it was too late, being past that 61 days before threshold. A week or two would be much more reasonable imo.
Actually the deadline was December 26th for the primary and you had to file for the primary to be eligible for the general election in April. It is too late to file for this election.
CJ is right there is no place to write in a candidate on the electronic equipment or a line to write-in a candidate on a paper ballot (if you vote absentee).
Tonight after City Council meeting Randy Ray, Corporation Counsel for City told me his reading of Lease between Developer and Cub Foods is for 25, YES TWENTY FIVE YEARS before the renewal periods soooooooooooooo The Developer is entitled to his lease payments for 17 more years (plus/minus) whether there is a tenant selling anything in the Cub space or NOT. SWEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetttttttt
And just what will be the incentive to find a new tenant from the Developer’s perspective????? Cubs have any incentive that exists……. and they are leaving
The people I am worried about are all those customers from 49 miles away that have been shopping at Cubs since it opened according to the same attorney that drafted the 25 year lease. With Cubs closing where are they going purchase their groceries or are they going to starve now?
Well as unfortunate as it is for the citizens of this city, still I hope the rest of this city’s governing council feels like the douche bags that they are for voting the city into an oblivion. Govern for the taxed citizens for once. Don’t look at the taxed citizens as a winning lottery ticket with which you are going to give a new Cadillac to your cousin and make the neighborhood look better with it sitting in his drive. Damn!
In other words, What the [F—]? How much bull[—-] are we going to have to take from our governing council and mayor? Damn! Too damn bad too that we won’t have any real choices on the ballot for this city government.
Now that Cubs is leaving Midtown Plaza it is easy to sit back and said “I told you so” But we all have to deal with this. Right or wrong we have this issue. I was against the way Midtown Plaza was done but that is the past. As a neighborhood “advocate”, Association president, Alliance officer and EBNHS officer I have worked for forwarding and improving the East Bluff and to say the least it is a big struggle. With the current downturn it looks bleak for Midtown Plaza and re-investment in this or any other “older neighborhood” Yes we have crime, drugs, litter and run down homes, slum land lords but doesn’t almost anywhere have the same?
We also have great people that live and work in the East Bluff. So it is unfair to lump the East Bluff as a crappy place. I have shopped at Midtown since day 1 and have never felt that it was unsafe day or night I might be stupid but it is what you make of it. I have never been sacred of things even when the police chased down a drug dealer in my yard and found his gun in my back yard he ditched. I think most residents supported Cubs and also support Kroger’s so this was a chain store decision. The store was clean, well stocked and friendly employees.
As now that we all know what is going to happen what is the future? Will the city default on the TIF? I think not. Will the East Bluff fall into disarray? Some think it has. I think not unless we let it. I have not heard anyone as to what can be done now. I find it strange that our councilman Bob Manning has not said a peep as to this. Is he working on something? Or could care less? Is it better here? It may not be as bad as others.
I would rather have a discussion about who John Smith is, than force voters to choose between two prepackaged and government approved candidates.
(Besides, in Gary’s case or someone like Bruce Brown-there’s a common name- would there really be any debate about who the candidate was?)
I think the write-in registration law is clearly unconstitutional, but nobody seems to care what the constitution says anymore.
When I lived in Peoria, I shopped this Cub all the time. 6am, 2pm, 11pm… it didn’t matter. It was a safe location. I never had a problem in there. The cashiers were nice. The shelves were always stocked well.
However, locating a suburban strip mall in this portion of town was a disaster in the making. No matter what is said, the store will be difficult to refit for small tenants . One thing is for sure, the most likely tenants to fill this location will certainly not be uses beneficial to the neighborhood.
Gary Sandberg gets way too much mileage out of just voting “nay” on everything that could possibly be forward-thinking. If we all lived in a Sandberg driven Peoria, it would resemble a square mile of the south end. Some might think that’s really cool. If you feel that way, move down to that area. There’s plenty of houses on the market there.
Agreed Bentone……we should probably just skip all council votes pertaining to any kind of “forward thinking” subjects and rubber stamp all development. Because as the past has shown, One Technology Plaza, PeoriaNext, “Fill in name here” ballpark, MidTown plaza, the Museum have all or will all transfer Peoria into the place to be. Sidewalks? Police? Firemen? Naaaahhhh……we need more TIF’s for Super WalMarts.
I can’t stand a guy who votes no for “progress”.