You may recall that the sales tax increase for the proposed Peoria Riverfront Museum only closed the public funding goal, and that the museum group was still $11 million short on the private funding side. Whenever they were asked about this at town hall meetings before the vote, the answer was always that the CEO Roundtable had committed to raising $8 million of the remaining money from private sources, and that the museum group is “confident” that they can raise the remaining $3 million not covered by that.
The vote took place in early April. It’s now late July, and the Journal Star reports today, “Officials are trying to bridge a $5 million gap in public and private dollars still needed.” So it sounds like the CEO Roundtable has been unsuccessful in raising their promised $8 million (shocker!), leaving not a $3 million gap, but a whopping $5 million gap. Huh. Who’d have thought that a group so unsuccessful in raising private funds for this thing over the past ten years would have so much trouble closing an $11 million gap now?
In other news, Caterpillar, the company that lost $112 million the first quarter of 2009 and has been laying off lots of its workers, donated $100,000 to the “Friends of Build the Block” campaign, according to campaign finance reports. That $100,000 went toward marketing materials that proclaimed, “Over a 25-month construction period beginning in late 2009, The Block project will employ 250 to 300 local workers per month and contribute $1.8 million in monthly labor payroll to our area’s economy.”
Only it won’t actually do that. Almost immediately after the referendum passed, Caterpillar announced that it wouldn’t be building anything this year because of the economic downturn. And they haven’t given a date when they will start building it, either. Presumably, it will be after the economy recovers. So much for our “home-grown economic stimulus package.”
But the good news is that Peoria will still get the higher taxes it wanted. Those are still scheduled to begin in January, whether anything gets built or not. Probably the museum group won’t wait for that final $5 million to be raised before they start building. They’ll just start building anyway, and then when they start running short of money toward the end of the project, they’ll have another capital campaign, or another referendum, or some other gimmick to pry more money out of taxpayers’ pockets. By then it will be “too big to fail,” you know.
CJ: Percentage of residents in the voting jurisdiction is not the criteria that elections are based on.
Only how many cast and the percetage on each side of the issue. Township elections are the lowest in turnout when compared to the other time periods (presidential, congressional)
that should be “percentage”
This is all very entertaining, but not substantiated. I know plenty of people who are transplants who are just as critical of Peoria as the natives (for lack of a better word). And I know plenty of natives who are Peoria boosters.
We’ve been through this before, you can say that the majority that voted in favor of the museum was a small number of Peorians, but it was larger than the group that opposed it and the rest obviously had no strong preference but certainly weren’t opposed to it.
Precinct Committeeman: The outcome of the election affects everyone whether they voted or not.
By “the rest” I mean those who did not vote at all if I wasn’t clear enough.
Many cities experience urban expansion and retraction. I think to argue that if we approached problems in the same manner that the city did in 1909 we would still be expanding at the same rate is not based in fact. External factors are just as important as city council decisions.
As voters we elect the local government to make decisions based on what the population thinks is best for the city, so the local population is just as much to blame as the city council if you want to throw rocks. It is easy to blame the government but I think we as a voting society forget we are the government.
The percentage of voters dosnt matter. Our government is run on the opinion of the voter majority. Small voter turn out just means that people are not exercising their rights. The fact that people choose not to vote just means that they must not have a strong opinion either way and are ok with increased tax. If you do not participate in the rights you have as a voter you can not complain about the consequences of those of us that do.
Well, that’s not substantiated either. Just because people don’t vote doesn’t mean they don’t have a strong preference or that they “certainly weren’t opposed.” One has nothing to do with the other. Do you not hear people all the time complain about this or that politician (especially the president), yet when questioned admit that they didn’t vote in the last election? You may feel that they have no right to complain if they didn’t vote (I feel that way myself), but you’re projecting your values onto others when you assume that they don’t have strong feelings just because they didn’t vote.
Not voting is a choice. If you do not vote you are choosing not to participate in your government and the decisions that it puts into action.
“Precinct Committeeman: The outcome of the election affects everyone whether they voted or not.”
How would you suggest we decide things CJ? Take a vote and if voter turn out is low we throw out the results?
Well I think to make this easy CJ lets appoint a king and he can make the decisions. Voting is obviously not the way to go. I mean wouldnt it be easier we could just have one person lead so we wouldnt have to worry about public opinion
We’ve gone from a compact, population-growing city to a sprawling, population-shrinking city.
Not a surprise, CJ, considering that a mere 100 years ago it was not uncommon for a family of 8 to live in a one room cabin.
Not voting is a form of voting. The non-voter is basically deferring to the majority. Therefore, you can make an argument that the folks who did not vote voted FOR the museum.
“but you’re projecting your values onto others when you assume that they don’t have strong feelings just because they didn’t vote.”
Our government is based on voting and the liberty that is associated with rule by the population. I would argue that the values of this country are directly tied to voting. Rejecting the vote is rejecting the values our country is founded on. Not voting is a statement that though you may have an opinion you are choosing not to vocalize it to the elected government. So I think that one can make the statement that though someone can have an opinion and not vote that opinion really has no course on the decisions of the government.
You’re arguing against a proposition I never made. I was responding to “nontimentum”‘s snarky “100 years ago” statement with my own. You can’t read an entire philosophy into it. My philosophical point was that increasing land mass and shrinking population is unsustainable, and that spending what little revenue we do have on non-essentials is irresponsible and only making things worse, as the current budget deficit shows.
Listen, all I’m saying is that you can’t say that people who didn’t vote are “certainly not opposed” to the museum. I’m not asking the vote to be invalidated or that a king be set up or any of the other ridiculous things you’re saying. You’re trying to read the minds of thousands of Peoria County residents. I’m saying you can’t do that.
CJ your analogy doesn’t make any sense. You are comparing one situation where in the museum vote we are talking about someone’s motivation or lack of for their decision not to vote while in your comparison you are comparing it to the reactions after the fact of someone who did not vote. Those are two wholly different situations and are in no way relevant to the point being made.
“but you’re projecting your values onto others”
No more so than you are when you claim that only a small number of people were in favor of the museum tax. You have no more knowledge of the non-voter’s intentions than I do.
And I can most definitely make the statement that they did not have a strong preference either way otherwise they would have voted. What other factors, assuming being absent on voting day, would you argue could cause someone not to vote other than a lack of motivation/interest in the subject at hand?
Not voting is still a choice and it is a choice to accept the decision of the majority of those who did vote, and that doesn’t prohibit complaining afterward.
Um, 1945 wasn’t 100 years ago. And it was decidedly uncommon for a family of 8 to live in a one-room cabin in the city in 1945.
How syllogistic of you. You know, I have a friend who went to the polls to vote against the museum, but he couldn’t vote because he had failed to transfer his registration when he moved. When my wife moved back to Peoria from South Carolina in 1994, she couldn’t vote in the congressional election because the timing of her move made her ineligible to vote in either location. Neither of these people were “deferring to the majority.” So your second premise is false.
Your argument only deals with the effects of not voting, not the intent. Not voting has the effect of voting for the winning proposition. But that’s not the same as being in favor of the winning proposition. There are lots of reasons people don’t vote. One is ineligibility, as I’ve already pointed out. But there are other reasons besides apathy and ignorance.
For instance, imagine a person who is in favor of tax support for a museum, but not the museum being proposed; such a person may choose not to vote because neither option (yes or no) expresses his or her true choice. The same thing happens in elections for public office in which neither candidate is acceptable to a voter. The voter either chooses the “lesser of two evils,” or doesn’t vote — in either case, the voter doesn’t really get the candidate he or she wants.
Again, I’m not saying the outcome of the vote should be invalidated because of any of these things. I’m just saying that no one will ever know if the non-voters were for or against the museum, and it’s presumptuous to say they “certainly weren’t opposed.”
This may come as a shock to you, but there are people who prefer one candidate over another before an election who nevertheless choose not to vote . . . and then complain about the other candidate winning after the fact. So I think my analogy is legitimate.
And where did I claim that only a small number of people were in favor of the museum tax? I did say that a small percentage of residents voted for the tax, which is a true statement.
I basically answered this in my response to Diane above.
Ineligibility is a good point, but I seriously doubt that was an issue for a significant number of the non-voters. As for your second argument, if that were the case no one would ever vote. Voting one way or another is ALWAYS a compromise unless I suppose you are voting for yourself as a candidate.
If an individual is conflicted as you suggest then by not voting against the museum they are as least allowing the possibility for the museum to pass. The whole point of a referendum is to PROPOSE A COURSE OF ACTION, and the only way it does not prevail is by more people voting against it than for it, so once again aside from reasons previously stated if you aren’t voting against it you are at least allowing for possibility it will happen.
There is never a time when anyone is not able to vote. You can not cast a traditional ballet but you can vote. If you can show two forms of ID and show that you are a resident of the city you can cast a provisional vote which is still a vote. I had to do this when I moved from DC because due to timing and the fact I had not been able to change my registration status. Unless your wife had no way to prove that she was a citizen of this country and you did not have an address in the city she could cast some kind of vote.
I think CJ that you are splitting hairs. The fact is a majority who voted want the museum which means that as far as the city is concerned Peoria wants a museum. Thousands of people who didnt vote have no effect on the situation so there concerns in effect are thrown out. Im not saying I can read their minds Im just stating the fact that their minds do not matter as far as the governing body is concerned.
Many cities go through expansion and retraction. Peoria is finally really having white flight and the suberb situation. Dunlap has become a suberb so the city population suffers. I think in time Peoria will redevelop its inner city and we can all sell our houses back to the exudos at a 200% profit rate. 🙂 I watched this happen in DC.
Do you know why most people do not vote?
Let’s go ask the millions of blacks in Mississippi or the poor in urban neighborhoods, or kids of wealthy suburban parent. Let’s the ask rural folks in city elections and those in the underclasses of society. People do not vote when their vote means nothing… or when they are told their vote means nothing… or when they are so confused by an issue that doesn’t effect them directly that they just don’t vote.
BUILD THE BLOCK effectively silenced opposition and confused the issue so much with their “grassroots” campaign that MOST voters had no idea what the issue was…a new museum and Caterpillar is going to pay for it??? Cool! .01%… is that really .0001 cents per purchase? It will only cost $17 to build the museum? And I’ll get a new and better job because of it? OK!
Most people who live “beneath” society and those that run it know very well votes don’t count, people count votes and the only thing that matters is WHO is counting the votes.
Haven’t we seen enough in the past 10 years to realize our elections are a sham? Florida, Ohio, Build The Block? When the election is close it ALWAYS flips toward the establishment BECAUSE the establishment counts the votes. You can’t flip wide margins of victory like Obama’s win, or Krupa’s loss. THINK ABOUT IT…. when was the last time an underdog won a recount? (Are you thinking Franken in Minnesota? OOPS… The Democrats were in power during the recount.)
Peoria wants a museum, yes. EVERYONE wants a museum…I’d like one in my basement. NOBODY is going to want this one. (Because it isn’t a museum… it isn’t planned to be a museum… it is a visitor center, tourist trap and concession stand.
You people with your “anyone can vote and everyone’s vote counts… wake up.
Man… why does EVERYTHING have to become a social issue with you???
kcdad is God. Look up towards him, praise him, as I fear he is also armed.
Let’s the ask rural folks in city elections and those in the underclasses of society. People do not vote when their vote means nothing… or when they are told their vote means nothing… or when they are so confused by an issue that doesn’t effect them directly that they just don’t vote.
KCdad – were you in a coma during the last presidential election? People vote if they get pissed off enough. The lack of turnout for the museum vote suggests that it wasn’t that big of a deal to a lot of people. Not surprising considering the fact that at issue was a quarter on $100 of consumer purchases – hardly an Armageddon despite what some would have you believe.
Kcdad the last presidential election had a huge turn out by minorities and the underclass. Do you really think Obama won the election because he was part of the establishment. You may think your vote dosnt count but in a small local voting situation your vote counts even more. I think you could argue that a presidential election is slightly off due to the electoral system but the musuem is a popular vote situation. A local election is purely based on the number of people who vote which means every vote cast is counted. I can see that you are upset because the side of the issue that you were on did not have enough of a turn out to win. In a democracy that happens. I would suggest that maybe if you really have this much pent up resentment towards where you live it might be in your own best interest to move.
Portland Maine is an excellent place to live that Im sure you would love. Now I know that cost of living issues arent a problem for you because it is about 200k for a condo but trust me it is a great city. You wont have to worry about budget issues or crime or trash pick up or any of the other issues you rant about on here because the high rate of taxes and ridiculous cost of living just make up for all that. Have a great life
I think another thing that one needs to consider is how many times do we take votes and they work. A handful of examples where you feel the system failed does not prove that the system is broken. The fact that when we have situations like that our country dosnt plunge into anarchy shows the system does work. People sometimes die when they go in to have a cavity worked on does that prove that going to the dentist will kill you. Its called the exception not the rule.
What I have noticed is that when “our” side wins, we don’t care how many people voted. When “our” side loses, we are upset about poor voter turnout–or that the wrong voters turned out.
The vote this, and the vote that……………………….
Like I mentioned earlier, the museum group made countless promises in the past [number of years]. They stated over and over they would NEVER need public funds to construct their masterpiece [public funds outside of private donations, govt. grants, etc]. The ‘vote’ was a last ditch effort to make THEIR museum a reality. Now we have ANOTHER tax.
After a $100, 000 + ad campaign, the pro-museum group BARELY won the vote. I guess what we have here is an example of just how easy the ‘masses’ are swayed. OR, just how loudly ‘big-money’ really talks.
Precinct,
I think my 35 years of being a Peoria County resident qualifies me to comment on Peoria’s…………… ‘condition.’
What does this have to do with the vote. CAT is having second thoughts….. anybody care to guess why?
Those of you who support this museum do so for a number of ‘reasons:’
1). You think this will be a great econo-stimulus package for Peoria [area].
– CRAP. When there is [and will] be plenty of donor funding for a museum…go for it. That plan went belly-up from the start. The museum wasn’t able to come CLOSE to soliciting enough private dollars for their building campaign.
– I can’t find anyone, pro or con museum, who believes that the ‘economic numbers’ touted by the museum group [prior to the vote] have a chance in hell of being realized.
– I find that most of the ardent supporters of the museum are people who already have secure jobs, housing, etc. They think a museum will be a ‘nice touch’ to the city. What do you people care if the museum goes belly-up and becomes ANOTHER useless, tax-pit in the middle of the city [do I really need to list a few?].
2.) The quality of life and education benefits……….
Bullsh_t. You people will keep doing what you have always done…try and fix Dist. 150 [fail], or move anywhere else where the school districts have a better rep.
The Epitome of Location, Location, Location:
1. Within Top-Rated School Districts
2. Close to Outdoor Recreation and Nature
3. Homes with a View
4. Near Entertainment and Shopping
5. In Conforming Areas
6. In Economically Stable Neighborhoods
7. Near Public Transportation, Health Care and Jobs
8. In the Center of the Block [less traffic area].
It is ironic that ‘Stephen Scanlan-Yerly’ mentioned Peoria’s location in relation to Chicago – St. Louis………………………..
THEY HAVE MUSEUMS – The kind that people WILL drive to, spend a couple of days viewing, eat out, get a room, see the OTHER attractions, etc. Still trying to figure out what the real ‘REGIONAL’ draw will be for the Peoria museum?
What if we spent a butt-load less money and renovate one of the existing buildings downtown? How silly to have an historic building as a museum…………..?
Diane, it passed already. You don’t have to continue the marketing spin. Or have you been parroting it so long that you believe it yourself now?
The vote was to give $40 million in tax money to the museum. F-o-r-t-y m-i-l-l-i-o-n. Enough to build two brand new schools. Enough to improve the streets in three of the four form districts. Enough to pay for nearly half of the estimated combined sewer overflow mitigation costs (the “poopy in the river” problem). Enough to fulfill any number of legitimate needs in the community. Instead, we’re going to give it to a museum which has little support in the general public, then listen to our elected representatives tell us how staff members are going to have to take pay cuts and citizens are going to have to make sacrifices in city services in order to balance the city and county budgets.
We’re all entitled to our opinions. I believe that’s an irresponsible use of funds, especially when combined with the $39.5 million Marriott hotel deal and the $55 million Civic Center expansion.
Diane….Stephen…
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008_voter_turnout_same_as_2004_/
Just look at the facts, that is, if it doesn’t hurt too much.
“The fact that when we have situations like that our country dosnt plunge into anarchy shows the system does work.”
Yes… that… And that we spent 1.5 trillion (think about that number for more than minute… trillion: that is more than the stars in our galaxy, more than all the grains of sand on all our beaches) to prop our our failing economic system. Did I say “failing”? I meant failed.
“Many cities go through expansion and retraction. Peoria is finally really having white flight and the suberb situation. Dunlap has become a suberb so the city population suffers. I think in time Peoria will redevelop its inner city and we can all sell our houses back to the exudos at a 200% profit rate. 🙂 I watched this happen in DC.”
– And this will happen because…………….. Peoria will have a new museum?
A number of people used to get really tired of all the comparisons/contrasts between Peoria and Chicago/St. Louis.
Lets stop trying to turn Peoria into a ‘little’ Chicago and concentrate on what makes Peoria appealing. First fix all of the problems [schools, a city in DEEP debt, crime, etc]. Clean up the river! What could $40 million do to help Peoria’s greatest asset? Building a multi-million dollar museum is not the answer. Not now. You people want to purchase the expensive luxury car, without having a garage to put it in……….. how is that for an analogy?
Call it splitting hairs if you wish. I’m just trying to be accurate. There are commenters who are trying to claim a majority of residents — not just voters — were in favor of the museum; that their choice not to vote was tacit approval of the museum plan. I’m saying that’s hogwash.
Your statement is closer to the truth. Technically, a majority of voters approved the referendum question, which was whether to raise sales taxes for “public facilities purposes.” But I get your point. The “ayes” have it. I never claimed they didn’t.
“We’re all entitled to our opinions. I believe that’s an irresponsible use of funds”
I’d say we got a big 10 – 4 on that CJ.
Well, I should add that my opinion is objectively correct, whereas yours is objectively wrong. But you’re still entitled to hold your opinion, if you wish. There are lots of people out there who think the moon landing was faked. They’re entitled to their opinions, too. 🙂
C.J., you stated that the museum has little support in the general public. In fact, you don’t have any way of knowing that. No big deal, except that you admonished the proponents who attempted to extrpolate from the vote that it does.
You then claim you are just trying to be accurate. Which is it?
Nontimendum — It is accurate to state that the museum has little support in the general public. You’re forgetting that they’ve been trying to raise private funds for this museum for over a decade and haven’t been able to do it. Even now, with an infusion of 40 million tax dollars, they’re still $5 million short.
C.J.,
I believe I made that point earlier.
nontimendum,
Add to what C.J. wrote, did you receive your little Build the Block rubber ball, car magnet, or what ever they were giving away to ‘buy’ votes?
QUIZ:
How much did the Build the Block campaign have to spend on a last ditch effort to win any kind of public support?
Rubber balls, signs, mailings, radio/tv adds, etc………………………?
I believe the PJS just wrote an article on this very subject. Correct me if I am wrong.
It is not accurate to say that the museum has little support in the general public because the private fundraising has not yet reached its goal. That’s like saying that because someone doesn’t financially contribute to a certain charity, they must not support its fight against a deadly disease. I believe the majority of those who support the museum are those that stand ready to do so through their tax dollars.
It’s interesting that you select the fundraising as your gauge of choice rather than the vote.
I love your optimism (“not yet reached its goal” — as if it ever will!). Let me see if I understand your argument here. You’re saying there is a tremendous groundswell of support for the museum that manifests itself in low personal contributions and a slight majority of voters in a low-turnout election willing to impose $40 million of the cost on the entire county?
Wow this is insane. Please CJ run for a council position. I will vote for you for sure. Right now if you run in the next election I promise I will vote for you. I do not agree with 99 % of anything you say and I often feel that you are a total newspaper style circular logic type of guy but I would love to see you in action so that you can lead Peoria towards its bright new future. You seem to have so many answers why not try to put them in to action?
By the way I would rather cut off an arm then see two new schools built in district 150.
KcdadbutnotKcdad that article just proves what I was saying, more minorities voted. Less republicans voted but the arguement that kcdad made that minorites and underclass citizens didnt vote is not correct.
Kcdad the quote you used from my post was in relation to vote recounting and had nothing to do with government bail outs. I was stating that our system of government dosnt turn into, for example, iran when we have a disagreement on the vote count. Also to follow up usually the loser is the one calling for the recount so its not shocking when after the recount happens they are still the loser.
Who cares how much money they spent to campaign. The fact still remains that those of us who voted supported to increase our own taxes to pay for the museum.
CJ I think you miss the point. If there was huge opposition to the tax why did the public not demand that the referendum be destroyed by voting against it? We as a community were given the ability to deny the tax increase and we didnt. Whatever your opinion is on the museum we as a community allowed this to happen.
When nontimendum says “support”, he means like “I support the troops” or “I support freedom of speech”. He doesn’t do anything to support it, he just ponders favorably about it.
That is not what most people mean when they support. they mean actively support something… like the legs of a chair, or the suspension wires of a bridge… or financially or volunteering time and effort…
OF course everyone is in favor of new stuff around town… I want a new Expo Gardens and three new libraries, 2 natural museums, 2 science museums, an art museum… no three, and a wax museum. Will I support the public finding them right now… hmmmmm… naaaaaah, I don’t think so.
Because the vast majority of eligible voters are ignorant and politically and media-illiterate. The Build the Bock propagandists did their job.
I would argue you are one of them Kcdad.
I am going to explain to you why my wife and I supported the Build the Block issue.
We enjoy museums and feel they contribute to the overall community on many levels the most important have nothing to do with the economy.
The tax is very low. We voted to pay a very small amount to construct what we feel will be a positive improvement in the city we live in. There was no propaganda involved. Personally I feel my taxes are low and I do not have a problem paying more for something that improves my quality of life.
Of course I am ignorant… I do not have access to a lot of information I wish I did. (Who programs the computerized voting machines, who is funding the campaigns, what their personal interest in an issue is…) I would not agree that I am politically or media-illiterate. I have striven to be alert to and aware of the messages and the messengers used by both to sway public opinion. I do not rely on one or two or even three sources for my information and am constantly in dialogue with others as to their reactions and presumptions about news, events, and personalities being presented.
I don’t think anyone really cares why you “supported” (see my earlier post) this or any other campaign. You reasoning is certainly presumptive and prejudiced by your having come from a place KNOWN for its archived treasures. What you are apparently unaware of is Peoria’s history of not archiving ANYTHING in its historical collections. Lakeview and the Peoria Historical Society are certainly not historical organizations like The Smithsonian or National Archives. I don’t think they have the creds of the Ripley’s Believe It Or Not people.
Did you ever look at the “plans” for the museum? Or were you supporting the “idea” of a museum that resembled your experience with that concept?
The tax is low… compared to what… balancing the city’s budget?
ell, I should add that my opinion is objectively correct
That’s like the biggest oxy-moron I’ve ever heard.
CJ – At one point in this debate You may have had a win…but that time has come and gone. Of course, that’s just my objective opinion.
Oh Diane… go look up oxymoron. (It is one word, not like Oxy-Clean)
a figure of speech by which a locution produces an incongruous, seemingly self-contradictory effect, as in “cruel kindness” or “to make haste slowly.”
The truth of an oxymoron lies in its unconventional expression. I presume you have trouble with opinions being objectively correct. That is the difference between an opinion based upon facts and an opinion based upon beliefs.
I love that. “Objective opinion”. I’m going to start using that. A lot! 😉
… and thanks for explaining the origins of the word oxymoron. I wrongfully assumed it was a derivative of “my ox is a moron”. Ha ha 😉