You may recall that the sales tax increase for the proposed Peoria Riverfront Museum only closed the public funding goal, and that the museum group was still $11 million short on the private funding side. Whenever they were asked about this at town hall meetings before the vote, the answer was always that the CEO Roundtable had committed to raising $8 million of the remaining money from private sources, and that the museum group is “confident” that they can raise the remaining $3 million not covered by that.
The vote took place in early April. It’s now late July, and the Journal Star reports today, “Officials are trying to bridge a $5 million gap in public and private dollars still needed.” So it sounds like the CEO Roundtable has been unsuccessful in raising their promised $8 million (shocker!), leaving not a $3 million gap, but a whopping $5 million gap. Huh. Who’d have thought that a group so unsuccessful in raising private funds for this thing over the past ten years would have so much trouble closing an $11 million gap now?
In other news, Caterpillar, the company that lost $112 million the first quarter of 2009 and has been laying off lots of its workers, donated $100,000 to the “Friends of Build the Block” campaign, according to campaign finance reports. That $100,000 went toward marketing materials that proclaimed, “Over a 25-month construction period beginning in late 2009, The Block project will employ 250 to 300 local workers per month and contribute $1.8 million in monthly labor payroll to our area’s economy.”
Only it won’t actually do that. Almost immediately after the referendum passed, Caterpillar announced that it wouldn’t be building anything this year because of the economic downturn. And they haven’t given a date when they will start building it, either. Presumably, it will be after the economy recovers. So much for our “home-grown economic stimulus package.”
But the good news is that Peoria will still get the higher taxes it wanted. Those are still scheduled to begin in January, whether anything gets built or not. Probably the museum group won’t wait for that final $5 million to be raised before they start building. They’ll just start building anyway, and then when they start running short of money toward the end of the project, they’ll have another capital campaign, or another referendum, or some other gimmick to pry more money out of taxpayers’ pockets. By then it will be “too big to fail,” you know.
Diane doesn’t need the definition for oxymoron. She needs the definitions for “tongue-in-cheek” and “emoticon.”
Agreed.
Stephen,
You are the prime example of the cozy little, upper middle class, Polly-Anna types who support this museum because of its ‘curb appeal.’ Get off your [very] high horse please.
Do you even know what a museum is? Do you know anything about this particular museum? This will be the granddaddy of all museums! We are talking eight museums in one!
“We enjoy museums and feel they contribute to the overall community on many levels the most important have nothing to do with the economy.”
– So do good schools, low crime, low taxes, good garbage pick-up, no sewage problems, etc, etc.
“The tax is very low. We voted to pay a very small amount to construct what we feel will be a positive improvement in the city we live in. There was no propaganda involved. Personally I feel my taxes are low and I do not have a problem paying more for something that improves my quality of life.”
– You feel your taxes are low? Like I said, you sound like you are doing OK. You must be! Your not worried about taxes, you think an idiotic museum will increase YOUR quality of life, life must be grand!
Kcdad the Lakeview museum is a member of the Smithsonian Affiliation which means that the proposed new museum will have access to the collections and is guided by the same principles of the national museum.
The tax is low period. I am willing to pay the small amount of tax to construct the museum. The budget is a seperate issue. The vote was taken to raise a tax with the intent to fund the museum. I support that tax because I support the construction of the museum. If the city wants to take a vote to raise taxes to balance the budget let them and as a community we can decide if that is an appropriate course of action.
I saw your support post.
“the Lakeview museum is a member of the Smithsonian Affiliation”
Ha ha ha ha… that’s a good one!
Here is the Smithsonian Affiliation site:
http://affiliations.si.edu/DetailPage.Asp?MenuID=21
Here is Lakeview’s site:
As an affiliate:
http://affiliations.si.edu/AffiliateDetail.Asp?AffiliateID=41
And their own site:
http://www.lakeview-museum.org/
I don’t see any Smithsonian exhibits… in fact it looks like show and tell at some elementary school
I am hardly the example of cozy little upper class. I make sacrifices so that I can afford the lifestyle I want. I am not living the life of ease in some north peoria suberb. I would be willing to bet I live in a less desirable area of the city then most of the people engaging in this debate.
Good schools will not happen in this city until people want to live in this city. If I could somehow quit paying money into 150 I would do it. No amount of money is going to fix that beast. I am not saying I have any idea on how to fix but I would never support dumping more money into it.
As far as crime is concerned didnt the police department say that overall crime was down 11%. I have never experienced crime in Peoria and I feel safe so I guess to me I can not complain, maybe some can.
My taxes are not very high. Maybe some people choose to live in places where their taxes are much higher and if that is the case prehaps consider moving. I do not feel as if I am being over taxed compared to other places I have lived and visited, maybe some do.
Garbage pick up dosnt seem like that big a deal. I know that alot of people have issues with removing ally pick up but I think overall people are over reacting to this issue. Has your garbage never been picked up in a timely fashion or something? I personally feel a lack of recycling is a major issue here and think that households who do not recycle should be fined and that paying per bag for garbage pick up seems reasonable.
I agree the sewage problem is a major issue and I would gladly support a tax to facilitate correcting that problem.
Forbes magazine and CNN money both rank Peoria as great small cities to live in and I agree
“So do good schools, low crime, low taxes, good garbage pick-up, no sewage problems, etc, etc. ”
With the exception of “low taxes” which is very broad, all of the rest of these are from a different governing body than the county-wide sales tax. You can’t hold the county accountable for those problems, they have little to no ability to inject themselves into those problems.
Stephen, I think that we should modify our earlier assumptions about people from the area. I think that it is people over the age of 35 who live within the corporate bounds of the City of Peoria who are always down on the Peoria area.
“I think that we should modify our earlier assumptions”
Instead of modifying them, how about just getting rid of them…?
kcdad your attitude is a validation of those assumptions so you really just prove the point.
My attitude? I make no assumptions… I ask questions and challenge your silly assumptions.
“Kcdad the Lakeview museum is a member of the Smithsonian Affiliation which means that the proposed new museum will have access to the collections and is guided by the same principles of the national museum.”
Stephen,
Again, your ignorance of the situation hardly makes you qualified to comment on this………………..’museum.’ Do you have any idea how long Lakeview has been a part of Peoria? They have been a part of the so-called Smithsonian Affiliation for decades. SO? Can ANYONE tell me what Lakeview has done to really take advantage of that fact? I mean besides using that affiliation as a gimmick when it came time to raise a few donor bucks.
Besides, do you know how many Smithsonian affiliated museums there are in the U.S.? I subscribe to the Smith Magazine AND have a Smith bumper sticker. I guess that makes me a Smithsonian affiliate?????
Anyone know how many times Lakeview has dropped the ball when it came to preserving Peoria’s history? ANYONE?!?
“With the exception of “low taxes” which is very broad, all of the rest of these are from a different governing body than the county-wide sales tax. You can’t hold the county accountable for those problems, they have little to no ability to inject themselves into those problems.”
– 11Bravo!
I expected better from you! Oh sure………..it is a County Tax.
COME ON! If it weren’t for the Peoria City well-to-do shoving this down the throats of every hick County Board member [except Merle!], this wouldn’t have gone anywhere.
Remember your voting stats? Inner-city votes barely won out over the rest of the county votes. The people outside of the city limits knew and understood that this museum meant NOTHING to them.
Their question?!?!
Just how in the hell is a dinky little museum in downtown Peoria going to change my life for the better, way out here in Chilli, Millbrook, Princeville, Akron, Hallock
Brimfield Jubilee Radnor Mossville
Elmwood Rosefield Kickapoo
Trivoli Logan Limestone
Timber Hollis………….., ETC……………………………………….?
I do NV. I frequented the Smithsonian. I know there are many museums across the country who are affiliates.
“Peoria City well-to-do shoving this down the throats of every hick County Board member [except Merle!], this wouldn’t have gone anywhere.”
I am not well to do and I support the museum and its to bad that you view those living outside the city as being represented by hick board members. All those poor hicks just need someone like you to go out there and set em straight I bet.
Once again NV this arguement would not be happening if all those hick represented residents had come out and asked that question and then decided that they would vote against the tax.
NV I can comment on any issue I want. Your arguement has a giant flaw in it. The fact is that the opinion you had is not supported by the voting majority.
“I support the museum”… there it is again… what do you do to “support” the museum?
Well kcdad I voted to raise my taxes so I could foot some of the bill to construct and oporate it. Meaning that I am giving money I earn at my job so that the museum can be built.
Also the point kcdad and NV is that the museum has access to Smithsonian material. The museum has the ability to get exhibits from the Smithsonian if it files for them and it is approved.
What is your main objection to building a museum. I keep hearing it is a finacial issue but otherwise why not build a museum in a city that has a greater metro area of over 300k?
Main objection? I suppose if I had to select only one it would be the absolute “mini-mart” plan of it. The cardboard and wooden river exhibit, the concessions, the gift shop, the theater, the Cat visitor center…
http://www.peoriamuseum.net/proj_details.asp
A close second is the total hype of what an economic boon it will be. (If you build a museum to make money, you are building it for the WRONG reason.)
360,000+ visitors a year…. 1000+ a day, everyday?
$14,000,000 in annual income (minimum)
“Make Central Illinois a learning community
Improve education outcomes of K – 12
Make Central Illinois an attractive place to live & work”
“located in a low income community” DOWNTOWN PEORIA? Across the street from Caterpillar world hq?
Stephen,
I suggest before you continue on [and on, and on, and on…], you do a little more research. I have never been against having a museum in Peoria. I would say that most of the people who blog on this site feel the same way.
There are a number of reasons why this CURRENT museum ‘plan’ will not work. Most of these arguments developed on C.J.s site prior to the dreaded ‘vote’. You are correct. It is far more than merely a financial issue.
The ‘vote’ as you put it, does not validate or invalidate my argument.
Hey Stephen,
Did you happen to catch the PJS article on the museum? This is EXACTLY the kind of problem[s] I [we] have with this entire museum project.
1. COST – You bet.
2. Economic gain to the city/county? Give me [and yourself] a break.
3. Renovate an existing downtown building at a fraction of the cost? Why, when we have tax payers to foot the bill for a brand new building on prime real estate!
4. This project has been nothing but a flag for the local elite to wave from the beginning.
5. NOT ONE idea or change to the existing plan has EVER been considered by the museum ‘partners’ [and I use the word ‘partners’ loosely], let alone implemented!
6. None of the ‘partners’, especially Lakeview have a very good track record preserving Peoria’s history.
7. When was the last time that Lakeview, a Smithsonian Affiliate, EVER had a major exhibit FROM the Smithsonian?
8. Education? With the Peoria school district in shambles, you dare mention education and a multi-million dollar half-rate museum in the same sentence?!?
9. Does anyone remember who actually got to name this thing? Wasn’t there a ‘contest’ or some such?
10. AGAIN – I asked 11Bravo to look at the voteing stats: The Peoria County Board DID NOT represent their county… This vote was controlled by city money and city elite. The city vote won this election, not the vote from the outlying townships, villages, etc.
Check back for chapter two later.
By the way…..
If anyone decides to use the ‘vote card’ again consider this……….
There was an organized effort opposed to the current museum plan. The Citizens For Responsible Spending had no budget, and very little time.
If the CFRS had $100,000+ to spend, and nearly ten years to get their message across, the vote, which was almost to close to call as it stood, would have come out VERY MUCH different.
For a museum that you people seem to think received such popular support, it sure seems that the museum group had a hell of a time raising the needed funds and outside support.
What is really ‘funny,’ is the fact that the museum STILL does not have all of the necessary funding it needs to move ahead, but……. they will anyway.
Your right Im done going on and on about this. Unfortunately for you your side, the opposition side, lost the popular vote on this issue. You have a nice little list of issues there and its to bad that us Peoria elite forced this down your throat NV and kcdad. \
What is funny is that this is a dead issue. You lost the pro museum side won so its really a mute issue. The museum will be built using tax money.
I dont understand why you keep bringing up the school district in this arguement being that the tax that was levied would never have gone to public education. Hey NV maybe you could try to convince all those hick county board members to levy a county tax to improve peorias public schools or close our budget gap I mean they are a bunch of back woods hicks right?
Its easy to use the vote card because in our country thats how government decisions are made. We take votes. It dosnt matter how close the results are it dosnt matter who funded what or who had more money. At the end of the day the opposition, thats you NV, had the losing opinion on the tax and the museum. The people have spoken. Next time storm city hall with all your non voting masses that oppose an issue.
Stephen,
Gooooooood. Your take on this issue is amazing! With supporters like you, now wonder this project is doomed to fail before it starts.
By the way, did you bother to check out todays Journal Star article?
I think its laughable that basically because my opinion is different then yours you and several others sink to personal attacks. With supporters like you no wonder the opposition couldnt garner popular support. I read real newpapers first so no I havent gotten to the PJSTAR yet.
Great so whats your point NV? I just read the article. The fact that Cat may have donated money in a manner that wasnt totally above board? Dont you think that maybe you are playing on the wrong side when your opinion is different then most of the “Peoria elite” which in your opinion seems to be educated upward mobile people, and Cat, a major local employer who Im sure did more then their share of homework on this issue before supporting it.
Good point Stephen.
My simple retort…?
Are you a Peoria elite wann’a be? Re-read your last post. Lets see if YOU can tell me how ridiculous you sound.
These people, the elite “educated upward mobile people,” tell you you need THIS museum. You swallow it hook-line and fisherman. You must be one hell of a follower Stephen.
Its OK with you that this entire ‘operation’ may not be completely “above board.” What are you…a Republican?
My entire point is that the museum group, CAT, etc spent thousands on research that in the end was worthless. They then took this research fudged the results and presented these ‘results’ to the public as fact.
The way overblown economic impact of the museum on Peoria [area] is just ONE example of these fudged, misleading data.
DO YOUR HOMEWORK STEPHEN.
P.S.
Did you just insult the PJ Star? They [used] to be one of the major supporters of the museum project! Uuuuhhhhmmmmmm………..
“What is funny is that this is a dead issue.” I think I heard that said about Weapons of Mass Destruction…
“I read real newpapers first so no I havent gotten to the PJSTAR yet. ” USA Today?
“Dont you think that maybe you are playing on the wrong side when your opinion is different then most of the “Peoria elite”” So if every one else is FOR IT, it is right? You would have been a terrific house guest at Jefferson Davis’ home in 1860.
“The fact that Cat may have donated money in a manner that wasnt totally above board?” yeah… that’s it. “Cat, a major local employer”… also a major UN-Employer.
You win NV point taken. Im just a mindless sheep here. You should join CJ on a run for the council. I would love to see your fearless leadership in action also. Its very easy to argue and throw insults behind a computer. The economic benifits of a giant hole in the ground are working out really well too by the way. How much do we make on that big hole can you get me the numbers on that one?
I dont care if the PJSTAR supports or dosnt support the museum, its still a bad paper.
Kcdad I do feel that if the voting majority agrees with something then yes you could argue the will of the people is right. Should our government not do the will of the people to appease a few random bloggers. Maybe next time you cj and NV should go out and round up all the nays so you can successfully block referendums you disagree with.
Stephen,
I agree with you. The PJS IS a bad paper.
Before you put CAT up on a pedestal, you should know they are having second thoughts about this project. They are not coughing up the money to build the visitors center…at least not yet.
I also agree with you, Peoria could and should have a museum. I have never been against the idea. I am just against the current museum plan. The museum was designed by the wrong people for the wrong reasons.
Also, as you get busy preaching about the ‘people’s will’ this, or the majority that, can you think of any moment in history where your ‘the majority is always right’ scenerio might not really work? Do you think that a black man in America’s deep South from the Reconstruction on believes that the majority is right? Majority simply means MORE, it has nothing to do with who is right.
You are sounding more and more like a Social Darwinist.
“voting majority” does not equal “will of the people”
NV… how come you and I are agreeing on everything? We must be wrong.
Im making the argument that the majority voted in favor of the project. Im not making a case for the moral justification of the museum project. I voted for the museum for my own reasons but maybe some people voted for it just to piss off people like kcdad. Im not saying that the project is inherently right or wrong. I feel that it will be an improvement in the city. My argument has always been that for whatever reason the voting population decided that this museum should be constructed and that our government operates on that concept. Is the will of the people always inherently morally correct, nope but I also am strongly opposed to judicial overrides, however that has nothing to do with this argument.
When I say that the will of the people is right I am saying that when we as a population put something up to a vote it is the governments responsibility to carry through with the decision. In this case, for whatever reason, people voted in favor to build the museum and now it is expected to be carried out.
I think comparing a vote on a museum, which is not a moral or humanitarian example, to the civil war, post reconstruction America or for example the Holocaust.
Is a little extreme
Do you know why there’s a big hole in the ground and no economic activity there, Stephen? It’s because the city bought the Sears property when it closed in 1998, and then subsequently bought the rest of the property on the block. Since then, it hasn’t been for sale. They’ve gone through various phases (“let’s make it a park”; “no, let’s put an aquarium there”; “wait, how about a hotel?”), but never did they seriously consider actually letting the private sector have a hand in developing it. They finally settled on letting the museum have two-thirds of the block, leaving the other one-third for private development. At the time, the museum was to include Caterpillar in the same building. Then the museum folks honked off Caterpillar, so Cat decided to build a separate building for their visitors center on the private sector third of the block.
Believe me, if they would open the block up to private development, it would provide plenty of economic benefit for the city.
Stephen, the sore losers have tag-teamed you. They won’t even begin to entertain the notion that they’re on the wrong side of this one (or any issue for that matter).
C.J., do you really think that if there had been interest by private developers the city wouldn’t have facilitated the development? Asked another way, since you aver that …”it hasn’t been for sale,” which interested developers have been rejected?
Kcdad and NV has just organized a new faction in the tri county area. It is called the “Right Party organizantion”
No vote will ever be taken, only the will of the people will be respected.
The mechanism of deducing the “will of the people” is still up for discussion.
Any disagreement on an issue will be settled by how long you have lived at some address and when was the last time you bought something in Peoria County.
Amending the “Right Party Organization” it shall be called the “Who is Right Party Organization”
PC and nontime… well done.. you have managed to say something completely irrelevant on this discussion… again.
I notice that no one who “supports” the museum has anything to say about the
funding, the propaganda, the lies and the empty promises… let alone the design for the complex.
It is the same old thing… the voters approved it… the voters approved it… and everyone who voted against it is a big whiney baby.
The mechanism of deducing the “will of the people” is still up for discussion.
They can use tarot cards!
How about where their car or truck is registered?
Maybe a Tazewell County membership card?
Or miles driven across the Illinois river bridges in pursuit of a Starbucks coffee?
The list is endless
I can tell you one: John Q. Hammons. There was interest expressed in putting a hotel on the Sears block, and he was blown off by the powers that be. Who knows how many others there were.
CJ – Did Mr. Hammons expect TIF money for his project?
Diane — I have no idea, but considering the Sears block is in the Central Business TIF, I think it’s a safe bet that Hammons would have taken advantage of its benefits.
Did any of you hear Scott Altman talk at Lakeview Museum tonight? He was awesome!
The city rejected a bona fide proposal from Hammons to develop the site? That’s news to me. Please provide more detail.
kc, the problem with your arguments here against the museum is that it’s clear you would be satisfied with nothing less than a world-class museum that cost $1.00, and then you would bitch because another contractor would have done it for $0.90. Your idea of an acceptable museum doesn’t exist in the real world. There’s also the concern that the section featuring great communist leaders of the 20th century would creep out the kids.
Thank you for explaining me to me.
Let me see if I can come up with a museum idea that would have been acceptable, generated LOTS of excitement and the cost would have been irrelevant…. A Peoria Museum!!!!!
One about the Peoria area… you know, the Duryea Brothers, The whiskey barons, the early settlers, the native American first discovered here… their predecessors, the archeology, topogarphy, genealogies, etc…. maybe something about Jubilee, Zellar, Detweiller, Springdale Cemetary…
Lakeview and The Peoria Historical Society of course have all that information and artifacts…
MY PROBLEM is the vast majority of people making decisions in this city have no ability to critically think about anything. Those people supporting those making the decisions REFUSE to think… “our leaders have done it for us”. Baaaaaaa
Sorry everyone…Zellar is gone. Lakeview blew the chance [like its does everything else] to take advantage of that situation. PHS has never been a serious player in the ‘game’ of preserving Peoria’s history. Wheel’s ‘O Time is cute but static.
Precinct Man, etc.
Still waiting for you guys to develop an argument. What is/are your ideas of what a “real” museum should be? Eight separate entities in one museum, which by the way has been reduced in size [the building]. Sounds more like a shopping mall.
nontimendum,
A world class museum? Where in the hell did you get that phrase? OH! I KNOW!! That was the crap the museum partners was shoveling to convince you hicks that this project was worth millions of dollars and would be Peoria’s saving grace.
Prrecinct & Nontimendum,
Two simple questions:
1.) If what they are trying to build in Peoria is a “WORLD CLASS MUSEUM,” what do you call the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago? Metropolitan Museum of Art? Uffizi Museum? The Louvre, The Tate, The Hermitage?
– Universal Class Museums?
2.) What is the current status of CAT and their committment to this …..’project?’
“Did any of you hear Scott Altman talk at Lakeview Museum tonight? He was awesome!”
Since Diane’s comment was sincere, I will not pick on her.
Besides I agree with her.
NV why do you keep refering to your neighbors as hicks? It is offensive. People who disargree with you no matter where they choose to live are not somehow less intelligent or deserving of an opinion.
You live in Peoria Il not Paris.
Because you keep acting like hicks. Yes, you are all entitled to your opinions, but you [especially] are making uninformed ‘opinions.’ Your major argument [for] the museum centers round the ‘vote’. If the ‘people,’ you refer to so often, voted YES, this MUST be the right thing to do. If the local monied-elites support this project, it must be GOOD TO GO! It is my [humble] opinion that far too many people with money and power profess to know far more than they really know.
Precinct and nontimendum have NO argument at all. Where were you when this ‘argument’ was in full swing prior to the ‘vote?’ I can see you are concerned about this project. That is good. It has never been my intention to insult anyone, but when I can’t get clear responses to my questions, I wonder just who I am ‘dealing’ with.
I undersatnd kcdad can be annoying, but he develops sound, rational arguments. C.J. runs this site and has been an advocate ‘for-all-things-Peoria,’ more so than anyone else I know.
And you are correct. This is Peoria, Il not Paris…..so what gives anyone the idea that this will be a “WORLD CLASS MUSEUM,” or that we even need one?
Excuse me….. a WORLD CLASS [regional] MUSEUM!