On Monday around supper time, I received an automated phone survey that asked two questions:
- “Do you consider yourself a Tea Party Patriot?”
- “Do you support Sarah Palin?”
Anyone else get this call?
On Monday around supper time, I received an automated phone survey that asked two questions:
Anyone else get this call?
What was your answer?
“No” and “maybe,” respectively. “Tea party patriots” seems to be a disorganized group without a well-defined platform. I’m for limited government and fiscal responsibility, but I don’t consider myself a “tea party patriot.” And I found the question about Ms. Palin hopelessly vague. What specifically am I being asked if I support? Her right to live? Yes. Her talk show? Haven’t seen it. Her potential run for the Presidency? Not so much.
Her right to live. hahah.. too funny CJ!
I got one from Sean Hannity and the Heritage Foundation yesterday… it was so inappropriate asking double barreled and loaded questions.
For example: Do you still beat your wife or do you walk more than 5 miles to work?
Choose one:
1) Yes
2) No
3) There are little birds flying around my head
4) All of the above
A group/party that has little if any organization or derfined purpose has nothing to fear from an outside group coming in and taking over. If a take over is made manifest then the new group with organization and purpose will be obvious to the viewing public.
Maybe it is by design.
A better survey would be:
A. Do you think socialism will work in the United States?
B. Do you support President Obama?
socialism and Obama. Talking points of Fox 24/7 Get over it.
No call here but the Conservatives gave up calling me a long time ago.
point of order
1) Do you think Capitalism can work in this country WITHOUT government regulation, anti-trust and anti-monopoly laws?
2) Did you know that insurance companies are the worst of both economic systems… socialist in that they allow only a few to get the benefits of the contributions of many and then the capitalists skim off the top 45% of the benefits for themselves?
3) Do you agree that as long as advertising is allowed in a country where the median reading level is around 6th grade, and the median critical thinking ability is the same there can be no free market or informed consumers in this economic system?
Are those questions too difficult for the average American?
Capitalism has never worked in this country. When Capitalism got into it’s first full swing, we had the great depression. The only thing that really saved us was WWII. Then when the boys came back, another false sense of economy started and we had the free wheeling 50s which in turn, turned into the inflation of the 60s and guess what? Another war was needed and we had Viet Nam. This brought on the stagnation and great recession of the 80s. The free wheeling Reagan got in, offered up tax cuts to the rich in the form of trickle down economics, and this stimulated growth. Until greed took over and companies only saw the bottom line. Clinton wanted to tax these high profits and companies fled to oversea shores and moving their plants to cheaper workforces in foreign country’s. In comes Dubbya and he is handed 9/11 which was a bad thing, but Dubbya’s handlers saw it has a prime opportunity to divert the country’s eyes and focus on killing terrorists while letting Wall Street freely wheel and deal. Tons of money was spent and Iraq was targeted even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, it was still the cowboy Hee Haw let’s kill em mentality that won out. Surprise, Congress signs check after check for Bush and his war, Wall Street sells the same worthless crap over and over, the economy crashes, this time bigger than the great depression ever did and it’s Obama’s fault. I think I would rather have Socialism, more so than Capitalism. We all pay taxes by the boat load to the government and then some say I don’t want the government in my life. Well since we give them tons of money, I think they need to do something for it like regulated banks and businesses in the name of the people who has their retirements and savings entrusted with these people. The government seems to run the huge military machine well.
What’s this got to do with Palin? It is to show you anyone can ramble without facts and almost sound like they know what they are saying. Palin is no expert on anything including nuclear arms and to answer the poll questions: 1)No! 2) Ah Hell No!!
Looks like you may be only person who got that call CJ.
First the anon. envelope, now this random phone call…
🙂
Charlie & Emtronics seem to be in favor of tearing up the U.S. Constitution. Like so many of our liberal politicians it just keeps getting in the way of their agendas.
Only those with landlines will get calls such as CJ received on Monday evening.
Emtronics, you might wanna brush up on history if you wanna keeping ranting like that. 🙂
David, I do know USA Today / Gallup polls calls both landline and cellular lines. I noticed that when I was checking out the latest health care polls – hoping to prove you wrong about the direction – but it hasn’t changed much either way yet 🙂
Haven’t received the call, but I’ll save ’em the trouble.
Answers:
1) Absolutely not. Tea Party idiots are anything but Patriots.
2) Support her for what? To go back to Alaska and learn how to read a history book? Yep. Other than that… nope.
Speaking of talking points, jheezzz…
“Capitalism has never worked in this country”. LOL!! That has to be one of the stupidest things a person can ever say. Particularly for an American. I would elaborate on the rest of the diatribe but why? All I would probably get would be more liberal talking points and maybe some praise for Hugo Chavez, Danny Ortega or even Fidel. It’s obvious this person is an economic illiterate but one with an over-abundance of emotions.
But I will say that if one believes that capitalism has never worked in this country it is most assuredly working very well today in India and communist China, as well as hundreds of other third world countries, where millions have been raised above the poverty line where for so long they have existed under the more poverty-enabling systems. It says a great deal of the economic theory when a socialist/communist regime opposed to capitalism has to adopt capitalism to stay alive. And that is precisely what has happened in China.
So to conclude —
Emtronics = another ignorant, see-only-what-you-want-to-see lunatic/liberal/socialist/anti-capitalist type moron.
point of order… capitalism has NOTHING to do with our Constitution. I won’t speak for Emtronics or even suggest he wasn’t being ironic, but I am in favor of returning the rights guaranteed in the Constitution, that have been usurped by corporations, to the people.
The “Constitution” that you imply we want to destroy is a collection of decisions made by Judges… NOT the document nor the law that founded this country. (For example, the January decision giving Corporations unlimited access to controlling political speech, Roe v. Wade, Santa Clara v. Southern Pacific railroad, Brushaber v. Union Pacific Railroad, Bush v. Gore, etc).
Do you understand that our “Constitutional Rights” as guaranteed under the Constitution are not given to us by The Constitution? They are inalienable, we are born with them… every human being is born with them. They are PROTECTED by the Constitution. They can not be taken away by anyone, anything, anytime for any reason.
That’s why they are written the way they are… “Congress SHALL not…” That is what all historic governments have done…taken away “inalienable rights”. In our case, not only has our government taken away many of our rights, it has given them to corporations.
“it is most assuredly working very well today in India and communist China”
working for whom? The less than a dollar a day ‘slave’ laborers? The People? Or did you mean working well for the financiers and banks?
Capitalism can not exist with separating the population into extreme polarities of haves and have nots. It never has because it can not. Those who become the haves do so at the expense of others. It is an exploitative “big lie” system, that suggests there is an equal competition for unlimited resources… it is neither equal nor are the resources unlimited. (It is as fair and as American as lotto scratch tickets.)
First, this post was about the survey call about Palin. I think Palin is a raving lunitic so to prove that most RIGHT wingers read want they want to see and hear what they want to hear, I posted a rant on Capitalism which, like a juicy bone for a dog, gets any Republicans attention. My comment made no sense and was a ramble as I said it was but apparently the few that called me names didn’t get nor saw. Quote: “It is to show you anyone can ramble without facts and almost sound like they know what they are saying.”
Proves my point. Palin does this same exact thing everyday and people clap and cheer on her evey word because they see and hear what they want. Just like a few commenters here did with my post.
Yes, I am a liberal, that much is true and I am proud of it. Since when is Liberal a dirty word? On Hannity? Limbaugh? I think more of our Consitituion than the RIGHT in Washington has ever done. Bush proved this when he trampled all over it under the guise of 9/11. As for Capitalism in China, well you can bet the Chinese Government regulates and watches over it like a hawk, survival or not unlike the Bush Administration turning their backs so people could loot and rob from savings and 401ks causing the biggest economicial crisis this country has seen since the Great Depression. Oh, maybe some forgot that all this happened on the Bush watch.
God I love to stir you wingnuts up.
“That has to be one of the stupidest things a person can ever say”
THIS has got to be one the ‘stupidest things’ a person could write. That is the response of someone who doesn’t stop to think about anything, but kneejerkedly (?) lashes out at anyone who challenges their beliefs.
“I would elaborate on the rest of the diatribe but why?”
I dunno, maybe to demonstrate you actually have an opinion of your own or some facts to back it up…
Emtronics and charlie. One and the same.
The only phone call I got was from the Sierra Club wanting me to join them in their clean air program. They are not one of my favorite groups so I politely declined. And heaven forbid if you get on anyone else’s list such as donating to a cause. They call you and call you and call you and try to milk more money out of you. I really wish I was as rich as they think I am.
It seems most no one got your point emtronics. You wrote that post poorly and with vagueness at the end. People fly through these posts without attempting to recognize subtleties in disconnected writing. But just as you stated, your post was rambling and it was also incoherent at the end. If you would have used the word ‘above’ somehow, somewhere, as in “What’s the above got to do with Palin?, then everyone I think would have gotten your point. But since you couldn’t construct it cohesively the readers attention went primarily to the diatribe.
And as you claim the juicy bone for republicans, it seems there is a juicy bone for you – Obama and socialism. That is what provoked you in the first place, isn’t it? So what’s the difference, boss? You’ve got your bone, the right has theirs. Move on.
Also, I’m not an apologist for the Bush admin but as far as that admin being solely responsible for the economic meltdown — please! I can name as many democrats as republicans from Rubin to Gramm and going back to the Carter admin who are culpable in this debacle. And none of them would acknowledge responsiblity just as you can’t acknowledge that it was both parties that had a hand in the downturn. There was talk within gov agencies of disaster as far back as 1997 and yet nothing was done but have treasury and congress fire the squealers.
And China? Economies are not static and policies change. Remember the Cultural Revolution? The next one will really rock the world.
Palin’s a joke. She is exploiting her 15 minutes of fame and is mostly a media creation now. Five years from now she’ll be gutting salmon.
charlie, the concept of capitalism was forming around the time the constitution was written but capitalism was well in place by this time in America. Individual citizens ran and owned the farms, taverns, shops, stables, markets, newspapers who transacted business with individuals as well as with other businesses. Individuals also formed corporations. The word “corporation” actually means “group of peoples” derived from the latin term “corpus”. To say that capitalism and/or a corporation has no relation with the constitution and vice versa, is wrong and outright deceitful. The constitution is about “let do” or “let it be” on several levels, if you understand the references. But I am also not against just regulation.
“working for whom? The less than a dollar a day ’slave’ laborers? The People? Or did you mean working well for the financiers and banks? ” — —
Erroneous and vitriolic statement. Not worth the reasonable and factual response I could give to refute it.
“Capitalism can not exist with separating the population into extreme polarities of haves and have nots. It never has because it can not. Those who become the haves do so at the expense of others. It is an exploitative “big lie” system, that suggests there is an equal competition for unlimited resources… it is neither equal nor are the resources unlimited.” — —
How about some lucidity and honesty if you want a discussion. Your statement above provided neither.
Yeah, all of what 8 people missed the point. Wow, the whole darn city. I didn’t expect the point to be caught. I wanted to read the responses. BTW, no such thing as Obama and Socialism in the same place. That’s a Fox news talking point.
“It seems most no one got your point emtronics.”
Hmm. Interesting conclusion… It does seem, though, that you still don’t get the point. 🙂
Packa:
“charlie, the concept of capitalism was forming around the time the constitution…”
WRONG!
Capitalism as a system developed incrementally from the 16th century in Europe, although capitalist-like organizations existed in the ancient world, and early aspects of merchant capitalism flourished during the Late Middle Ages.
Corporatism is what was developing… it started for the colonists with The East India Trading Company.
According to some historians, the modern capitalist system has its origin in the “crisis of the fourteenth century,” a conflict between the land-owning aristocracy and the agricultural producers, the serfs. Feudal arrangements inhibited the development of capitalism in a number of ways. Because serfs were forced to produce for lords, they had no interest in technological innovation; because serfs produced to sustain their own families, they had no interest in co-operating with one another. Because lords owned the land, they relied on force to guarantee that they were provided with sufficient food. Because lords were not producing to sell on the market, there was no competitive pressure for them to innovate. Finally, because lords expanded their power and wealth through military means, they spent their wealth on military equipment or on conspicuous consumption that helped foster alliances with other lords; they had no incentive to invest in developing new productive technologies.
“…was written but capitalism was well in place by this time in America. Individual citizens ran and owned the farms, taverns, shops, stables, markets, newspapers who transacted business with individuals as well as with other businesses.”
Small business ownership is not the issue. Small businesses have existed in every society and every era.
“Individuals also formed corporations. The word “corporation” actually means “group of peoples” derived from the latin term “corpus”.”
When “corporation” or “incorporation” is used in this context, it means a government chartered entity receiving privileges reserved for a select group. In the 1800’s the word TRUST was used to describe what corporations had become under the rulings of the Supreme Court.
“To say that capitalism and/or a corporation has no relation with the constitution and vice versa, is wrong and outright deceitful. The constitution is about “let do” or “let it be” on several levels, if you understand the references.”
Yeah… show me. Show me where a corporate entity is referred to in The Constitution.
“But I am also not against just regulation.”
Just? What is “just regulation”?
““working for whom? The less than a dollar a day ’slave’ laborers? The People? Or did you mean working well for the financiers and banks? ” — –Erroneous and vitriolic statement. Not worth the reasonable and factual response I could give to refute it.”
And yet you felt compelled to respond to it… I know. You don’t have any factual response.
““Capitalism can not exist with separating the population into extreme polarities of haves and have nots. It never has because it can not. Those who become the haves do so at the expense of others. It is an exploitative “big lie” system, that suggests there is an equal competition for unlimited resources… it is neither equal nor are the resources unlimited.” — –
How about some lucidity and honesty if you want a discussion. Your statement above provided neither.”
I got your coherency RIGHT HERE!
“The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” Winston Churchill
“The forces in a capitalist society, if left unchecked, tend to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.” Nehru
“What kind of society isn’t structured on greed? The problem of social organization is how to set up an arrangement under which greed will do the least harm; capitalism is that kind of a system” Milton Friedman
“I believe totally in a Capitalist System, I only wish that someone would try it.” Frank Lloyd Wright
“Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes
“Fascism is capitalism plus murder.” Upton Sinclair
Capitalism is the few exploiting the many, Socialism is just the opposite.
Of course, I shouldn’t stick my nose into an argument between Charlie and Emtronics and Jon; however, Jon, as you might expect I do understand Emtronics’ and Charlie’s point of view. I just believe it is very dangerous for all of us who love this country to uphold capitalism to the extent that we refuse to look at its faults. Also, I agree with Emtronics in that I am quite tired of the accusations that Obama is trying to redistribute wealth in this country. I never cease to be amazed at how many middle class people defend the extreme accumulation of wealth by the extremely wealthy in this country. I guess as someone recently suggested to me most still have that dream of becoming one of the extremely wealthy. The other assumption that amazes me is that these extremely wealthy people “earned” that wealth and that they were self-made men (mostly men) who earned the money all by themselves and did not take advantage of the hard work of many lower and middle class Americans in order to rise to the top. You know, John Donne’s contention that “No man is an island; no man stands alone.” I don’t agree with Obama on all issues–certainly, not on his stances on education, etc., but I am tired of those who make the assumption that he is a Marxist or a socialist out to destroy this country. But when was the last time I agreed with any President on every issue?
LOL, Sharon. Read my comment again and ask yourself who I was speaking to? 🙂
Jon, I believe you were agreeing with Emtronics. I admit I came in late to this thread, so didn’t keep track of who said what or who was quoting whom. Does this mean that you and I both agree with Emtronics, Jon?
Sharon,
Barack Obama is a socialist. Funny his supporters always claim he’s not, as if it were a bad thing.
David, are most western European countries Socialist? Or are they, like the U.S., a mixed economy, sharing both capitalism and socialism traits? Of course, the real question is to what degree of which one. Very few people want a purely capitalist or a purely socialist state. Calling someone a “socialist” or a “capitalist” is simply playing to the extremes, without acknowledging that what exists, and what most want, is the complexity that is in the middle. Is Barack Obama more socialistic than Bush? – absolutely. He is a socialist? – absolutely not. (and you know better)
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Well if you go way back before Obama was elected, he was a terrorist because he hung out with Rev Wright, then he was a Muslim because he wasn’t born in the United States, then he was a communist, then he went from all that to a socialist.
Now anyone who really believes our elected President is a socialist is just plain brain washed. Nothing els can explain it. Besides, when the socialism tag wears out, Fox will brand him as something else. It’s almost laughable if it wasn’t for the fact that some people are all to easily hooked in the nose.
What it really boils down to is this. Good ol white right wing people who have great jobs and have great health care they can afford who think that everyone should be able to have the same great job or they are just lazy on the dole, just don’t want a black man in the Whitehouse. That is all it is because none of their propaganda holds water. None of it. Birthers, Muslim, Socialist, Communist, none of it.
BTW, I have no argument with any poster here. You can’t argue stupid.
Jon, excellent analysis! It’s great when we agree. Emtronics, well-stated. Charlie, I can’t go to your extreme negative view of capitalism, but I can go part way and appreciate your calling capitalism to task and making us look at its faults.
Emtronics is wrong. It’s as simple as this: Republicans don’t like it when Democrats are in office, and vice versa. Each side calls the other names (like “socialist” or “fascist” or personal insults like any number of terms that mean “philanderer” or “illegitimate child”), and it’s been going on like that since the country started. It has absolutely nothing to do with Obama being black; it has to do with him being a Democrat.
And Michael Steele’s appointment had nothing to do with his being Black and Alan Keys Senate run in Illinois had nothing to do with him being Black, nominating an unknown white woman from Alaska as a VP had nothing to do with Obama being a black man, and what else has nothing to do with Obama being black? Oh.. EVERYTHING coming out of Fox News. Remember Beck’s classic comment… “I think he has something against white people… I think he is racist.”
CJ: When did we call Bush a Socialist or Fascist? The Democrats didn’t have the balls (and still don’t) to interrupt the President and call him a liar or go on national TV and tell people they want him to fail. BTW, no one on the Right has called Obama a democrat. Liberal, leftist Liberal, Socialist yes but I can’t recall him being labeled a Democrat. It’ all about color, especially in the south. Color and guns. Always afraid their guns are going to be taken away. The duped masses by the likes of Palin, Limbaugh, Hannity, and yes Fox news. Take off those rosed color glasses CJ. 🙂
Oh and the “NEW” word for Obama and anyone who agrees with him is now “Progressive.” From the idiot mind numbing thinking of Glen Beck which I’d like to believe that even true Republicans back away from.
Charlie — What are you trying to say?
Emtronics, here’s a small sampling of links to refresh your memory:
George W. Bush and the 14 points of fascism
Bush’s ideology is not conservative, but it is fascist
BBC: Bush’s Grandfather Planned Fascist Coup In America
Democrats boo Bush during 2005 SOTU
A majority of Democrats want Bush to fail (2006 poll)
George W. Bush . . . idiot
I could go on, but you get the idea. Take off your own rose colored glasses. 🙂
Oh, and then there’s this post where someone said Bush was no Hitler because “Hitler was a decorated frontline combat veteran. The election Hitler won in 1933 was because he got more votes than his opponent.” I guess it’s okay to compare Hitler favorably to Bush (even jokingly), but don’t call Obama a socialist or you’re a racist, right Emtronics?
What am I trying to say?
There is no such thing as race… it is a made up way to demonize opponents. Obama is no more black than he is white… none of us are.
However, Fox News has a strong tendency to use people with light skin as models and people with dark skin as the enemy. (Remember the classic Newsweek cover of OJ SIMPSON with his face tones darkened to make him look even more BLACK?)Just look at their line up… and they talk about “them and us”. Us, of course, being the light skinned Fox people. Even Bill O’Reilly identifies “his kind of white male Christians” excluding Mexicans, Catholics and other -non WASP groups. Beck praises Romney as a good Christian while attacking Obama’s copycat plan as Socialism… the only difference between the two… one is black and Democrat and the other is white and Republican. TAKE YOUR PICK which Beck thinks is most important. HINT: He repeatedly denies he (Beck) is Republican and calls himself a conservative intentionally.
BTW.. George W. Bush is not a fascist, he just promoted fascist policies given to him by his father and Rumsfeld and Cheney and the rest of the neo-con one world, new order elitists. Bush was nothing but a puppet.
(I voted for Bush, TWICE)
Clinton, George Senior and Reagan all had their problems, but they all represented the interests of big war business and the banking industry. The last human being, the last man that actually had principles and stood for them was James Carter, and you remember what the media and financiers did to him… The malaise was intentionally manipulated to make him look bad.
Ok went to every link CJ; First you linked my blog and I never said Bush was anything near Hitler. Bush was never a highly decorated military person. As for your other links, I didn’t hear the booing in Bush’s SOTU speech. I did hear someone calling Obama a liar during his SOTUS. A poll on whether you want the President to fail was dreamed up by guess who? Fox News. Ok let’s say it’s legit. It’s a poll and it wasn’t repeated day after day on talk radio or TV like wanting Obama to fail is on Limbaugh and Hannity. I can not find any group of democrats that want everything Bush did to fail. Yes, they wanted his privatization of Social Security to fail and it did. The Bush is an idiot link was written by a Hollywood journalist. More opinions out there than there are assholes. Big deal. The BBC article on Bush’s grandfather is gossip, nothing more and surly no worse than Bush’s family friendship with the Saudi’s.
Besides, Bush I doubt even know what Fascist even means. The point I am making and I will stand beside is that more than not, it is racist when it comes to Obama being President. It may not be with you CJ nor do I believe it is with core Republicans, but you can bet you booty it is with the kinds of right wingers that follow Palin and Limbaugh. The ignorant masses and that is where the danger in all this comes from. The likes of Tim McVeigh and others like him out there. I can tell you this, walk into any bar or tavern outside Peoria in this area and listen to people talk. These are the people that use the N word to describe our President. I do agree however that Bush was a total idiot and yes he stirred hatred on the Left in radicals but not to the point of hatred I have seen coming from the Right and what is even scarier is that leaders on the Right don’t bother to distance themselves from this rhetoric. That is the major difference.
BTW your edit feature is useless on my Win7 IE8 computer. It doesn’t work so I have to post again.
I wish it was as simple as ” Republicans don’t like it when Democrats are in office, and vice versa. ” While that is true, Republicans seem to hate it more and with vile contempt. Look how they went after Clinton. First it was White Water, then on and on until they finally caught him getting a BJ 8 years later. Wow. If the Left rode Bush like that, he’d still have the whip marks on his butt.
Seems like Emtronics has his own set of talking points. I think I’ve heard them from MSNBC and the N.Y. Times. It’s funny that the ones who bring up race are the liberals. They always have that to fall back on. I guess the Martin Luther King dream of judging a man by the “content of his character instead of the color of his skin” will never be realized.
Point or Order: I am humbled. Funny how the right brings up MLK.
PoO: “has his own set of talking points.”
Those would be “opinions” or “viewpoints”. I know it is difficult to think of expressing a viewpoint that didn’t come out of some college drop out radio announcer’s mouth.
We all know what we hear some (way more than I want to hear) white people saying about Obama (not just in bars). Racism is very alive and well in Peoria. And to set the record straight I do not believe that C.J. in any way has views that I would ever call racist. I do believe that the likes of Beck are helping foment the fear (and hatred) that already exists among a rather extensive group of white people. As you all know, I have been prone to criticizing some District 150 administrators who happen to be black. I am always upset when some white people interpret my comments to mean that I, thus, share their racist views. Any time I disagree with any administrators in District 150, the basis for my concern is always that I believe they (black or white) are doing a disservice to young people in 150, but most especially to black young people. I cannot find any fault with anything Emtronics and Charlie have said on the subject of race with regard to Obama. I, too, believe that the attacks against Obama are much more deeply rooted than any of the usual comments made about a President from those of an opposing political party. I know that reverse racism exists and deplore racism in any form. However, I have always and still do understand the basis for “reverse” racism much more than I understand racism against a people this country once enslaved and treated like znd considered as something less than humanbeings. I don’t think 100+ years is enough time to overcome the harm done by slavery and the unfairness that followed the end of slavery. Fortunately, I count in my circle of friends and family many who share my views–enough so that I know that we have made progress in this country with regard to race, but we still have a long way to go. I pray to God that we make it the rest of the way. My hope was that Obama’s election was one more step in that direction. I still hold out that hope.
P. Of Order, I find it so amusing that you find the the US Constitution as soon as Bush leave office.
CJ,
If you can’t see the subtle racism in all of this Tea Party junk going on, then you aren’t looking hard enough or deep enough.
For white America, this country is standing on the precipice of some major changing coming it’s way and what happens the next few years will be very important to the next several generations. And if white America does not carefully examine these changes, then this country might be headed down a terribly violent path.
I think every one needs to step back and realize that if you are willing to dish it out you better be able to take it( Republican or Democrat.) If you don’t think it happens both ways then you are as or more closed minded than those you have differing opinions from. Both sides are horrible.