According to Comptroller Dan Hynes, Illinois “still sustains a deficit, ending fiscal year 2007 nearly $3.6 billion in the red based on preliminary unaudited estimates.”
Nevertheless, the General Assembly apparently feels that it has $12 million to spare for the Peoria Riverfront Museum. The House of Representatives approved the expenditure 80-23, and now the bill heads to the Senate where it’s being championed by Sen. David Koehler.
Rep. Aaron Schock voted for it. So I guess he’s okay with deficit spending and fiscal irresponsibility. He’ll fit right in in Congress.
Yea, I would rather see that $12 million go to Chicago anyway.
There going to spend so we might as well have some come our way.
The Peoria Riverfront Museum is still a big mistake. If we have money to burn then put it into DOT and fix our roads. This year is going to again be plagued with orange barrels.
I support a museum. I do not support giving it $12million in taxpayers’ money. But, it’s the “easy way”. They won’t have to tap local taxpayers until it’s built and losing money. Then they will force local taxpayers to fund the on-going maintenance/operation, because “we can’t lose that investment”.
Unfortunately we live in the era of instant have-it-all gratification. Nobody has the guts to say, maybe we can’t afford a big new museum, and a new zoo, and a “state of the art” public TV station, and an expanded civic center, and a Riverplex, and a Gateway buiding, and a this and a that, and a partridge in a pear tree, all at the same time. There are all nice, but a BMW is nice too, and I’d like to have one, but I can’t afford it, so I’m not buying one.
Peoria was a much nicer place back in the 70’s before all those things you mentioned. I guess you don’t remember “Last one out please turn off the lights…..”
Peoriafan — I think you’re missing the point. No one is suggesting that they aren’t nice things. Only that we can’t afford them. I don’t know what you do for a living, but I imagine that you do without some nice things because you can’t afford them. I know I do. It doesn’t diminish the value of those things. It’s just reality.
What many people object to is the idea that we should just do without core services like fire protection and infrastructure maintenance so we can have niceties like a bigger zoo and a Gateway building. That’s like doing without groceries so you can afford to buy a hot tub, or cigarettes, or cable TV, or some other unnecessary item. It’s all about setting priorities.
The state is billions of dollars in debt. Now is not the time to be giving millions to a museum project.
C.J. – good points. But I don’t think anyone in Peoria is going without the core service of “fire protection”. Peoria has one of the best fire departments (with a great response time) in the state. If looked at objectively, there really aren’t any areas of the City that aren’t well served in that regard. However in a couple of other “core services” – such as transparent leadership, infrastructure maintenance, and code enforcement – I agree – we are way behind where we should be.
You need things like the Civic Center, a nice Zoo, an attractive riverfront etc. to attract people and jobs to the area.
People don’t look at the big picture. If you don’t have people wanting to live here or work here then where is all the funds going to come from to pay for things like streets and fire departments.
You must make the area attractive for people to want to live here.
Do you think the hospital’s and CAT would be able to hire young people straight out college to work in Peoria if we didn’t have things like the Civic Center? If they can’t hire a decent workforce then they will go elsewhere and take all those jobs with them. Then how do we afford to hire more fireman?
And come on our fire department is just fine. If anything we could use more police since our number one issue in this town is crime not fires.
Peoriafan: Where’s the civic center in Germantown Hills? Or the zoo in Morton? Or the museum in Dunlap? Why is it that these areas are growing much faster than Peoria (assuming Peoria is growing at all) when they don’t offer any of the amenities you claim are crucial for growth?
“Peoriafan” suffers from the malady that so many do. He/She can’t differentiate between “needs” and “wants”. That malady is rampant. It is a big part of the credit crisis. People bought houses they couldn’t afford because they “needed” them; they charge thousands of dollars on their credit cards for stuff they can’t pay for, but “need”. It has led to massive government deficits. It is bankrupting the country. I like and visit zoos, but no city “needs” a zoo. It’s absolute nonsense. Wake up Peoriafan. I’m sure you are a very nice and well-meaning person, but you are dangerous. You are leading this community and this country to disaster. It’s just a fact. If you don’t live within your means, the day of reckoning will come, and it won’t be good.
I would rather have the $12 million for utility relief than the museum boondoggle. Mouse you are correct — it will be yet another drain on our pockets for decades to come. It used to be socially unacceptable to be in debt, think debtor’s prison and the only debt was for a home. Then when you paid off your mortgage, you had a big celebration — a mortgage burning party. Those were the days when you couldn’t pay cash you didn’t purchase. Our society has been seduced by Debt’s twin sister, Credit and the Tsunami is coming.
C.J….the reason Metamora, Dunlap, Morton, Germantown Hills, etc are growing so fast is they have fast and easy access to the amenities in Peoria while providing “an escape” from living in the City. They can utilize all the great quality of life attributes as they desire.
I’d also note that NONE of those communities provide “core services” at the same level that Peoria provides them. But they are growing? Why? Maybe because the real issue in Peoria isn’t the lack of core services but something else.
“I’m sure you are a very nice and well-meaning person, but you are dangerous. You are leading this community and this country to disaster. It’s just a fact. If you don’t live within your means, the day of reckoning will come, and it won’t be good.”
Thanks, but I can’t really take all the credit for leading this country to disaster. But yes, I am a nice and well meaning person.
I’m I mistaken or does the Peoria Civic Center exist because of HRA taxes? Does the citizens of Peoria pay for the Civic Center through their real estate taxes? I think it is paid for through HRA taxes that are paid for by everyone including those that are from Germantown Hills and Dunlap that shop or eat in Peoria? They also pay for the Civic Center everytime they go to an event there. Who benefits from all of those thousands of fans that are here for March Madness? They are spending thousands in the Peoria area. That tax revenue goes right back into the community. But this is such basic stuff you all know this right?
Not all these projects you mention are the same situation. The Gateway Building probably was not the best investment Peoria could have made but it has helped spur development on the riverfront and has made it attractive for such events like the Peoria Art Guilds annual art fair to locate on the riverfront which draws thousands of visitors every year which brings in lots of tax dollars.
The museum, I am not sold on that idea and I would rather see a private developer develop that block with CAT.
My comment about the $12 million was meant to say that if the lawmakers are bound and determined to spend it better here than in Chicago.
I agree with You, peoriafan! Although, I despise the, proposed, Riverfront Mausoleum…. Oops! Did
I say ” MAUSOLEUM ” ? I meant… ” MUSEUM “.
Anyway, save Your energy! There’s NO convincing Those AGAINST public development that It’s worthy.
These are the same people Who, tirelessly, bitch about there being ” nothing to do in Peoria ” .
Why is That? Because THEY won’t support Anything!
Downtown – PeoriaFan,
Downtown – Something to do in Peoria does not mean a museum that you might visit once every 7.3 years [actually the gap between visits most people make to Lakeview is probably larger]. On-going entertainment; sports, concerts, etc is what keeps people coming back. Now if we can only get the Civic Center to bring back the great concert acts it used to get. My family and I love the riverfront, however retail is short. Plenty of great places to walk and sit, but I have to go a mile away for a cup of coffee or treat for the kids!
PeoriaFan – Museum? Sure. Is what they are proposing go downtown a museum? No. 65-75 million for what they are proposing is a crime. In the end, Peoria is still going to loose its history [if it hasn’t already]. There is to much money, to much power in the hands of people who have NO business making plans and/or decisions concerning a museum in this city.
I believe only a small part of the museum was going to be devoted to Peoria history.
Personaly I think the Peoria Historical Society should house their collection in one of their old houses or a old commercial building downtown and be done with it.
Save room in the new museum for revolving exhibits that change every 2 or 3 months. That is the only way you will get return visitors.
PeoriaFan-
True. The only problem is there is no more African American Hall of Fame Museum, no more Peoria Historical Society, etc. What will become of the Wheels ‘O Time Museum? All of these entities were absorbed into the awesome Museum Group. What will happen to the historic homes is a good question. I have only been to Flanagan once. Kind of cool, but run-down. The stuff they have rotting in their basement blew my mind. Lakeview’s attitude towards area history/preservation is “…what area history and preservation?” “We have Tiffany Lamps on display for 18 months!” “Who needs history, etc!” The Museum people have made some great big promises about this and that. So far we have seen or heard nothing but BS. All that money and time spent and in return? You did have one good idea. I have said this countless times on this site, but never got a reaction. Instead of Peo Hist Soc using an old commercial building, let the museum do it! A hell of a lot cheaper and you still have a prime spot downtown open for development.
Peo Proud says…
You’re begging the question. Why do they want to “escape” from a city that has all these great quality of life amenities? “You must make the area attractive for people to want to live here,” said Peoriafan. So we’ve made the area attractive with the Civic Center and the RecPlex and the litany of other publicly-funded projects. Why do people still not want to live here?
So they don’t have amenities or core services? Now it really is a mystery. What is attracting people to these towns and villages when Peoria has them beat on both counts? I guess this is really the same as the first question, isn’t it?
New Voice,
Did I NOT say, earlier, that ” I despise the Museum ” ? Others, however, may not! The (proposed) museum , ideally, would contribute
to create what’s known as ” synergy ” ….. interaction between, various, Downtown destinations to form a, lively and thriving, central business district.
Realize, also, that ALL the things Many of Us would like for Downtown…. including retail…. cost millions. And, to be honest, very few locals are contributing Any. That’s the worst part of the , proposed, museum. Lakeview museum board rushed forward with, flashy, PR and ” hat in hand ” appeals in the hopes of wooing wealthy benefactors and a, willing, public to create Their legacy project.
Understand, as well, that the Peoria Civic Center is a business that has to compete with several, competing, facilities to obtain entertainment.
The Civic Center has far MORE competition than It once had, during It’s 25+ year existence, for the ” great concert acts ” that YOU reminisced about. And Those shows aren’t, always, affordable or available during the event season or open dates between Bradley Basketball, Rivermen Hockey, and the resurrected Peoria Pirates.
Peoria has, in sevral ways, regressed into a ” suburban ” city! It’s become, since the shopping mall era, more car-oriented and less cosmopolitan. It’s fears and refusal to support a, bustling, downtown are self-reinforcing and self-defeating cases for developers NOT to invest in the downtown.
Downtown –
Ha! You are high again! Actually, I was agreeing with you, emphasizing your point. I should have started off saying “Downtown, I agree with you!” “Here are my thoughts on the subject….”
Now, what is wrong with reminiscing about those great concert acts? Plenty of classic rock groups touring about…..
New Voice,
” My apologies for ANY misunderstandings! “
Good. Now you have my vote to head-up C.J,’s new Anti-Museum Task Force.
C.J. – I can’t quote as fancy as you, but needed to respond since I think you missed (deliberately or otherwise) my point. I previously stated:
“I’d also note that NONE of those communities provide “core services” at the same level that Peoria provides them. But they are growing? Why? Maybe because the real issue in Peoria isn’t the lack of core services but something else.
To which you replied:
“So they don’t have amenities or core services? Now it really is a mystery. What is attracting people to these towns and villages when Peoria has them beat on both counts?”
My point was (clearly stated but obviously intentionly overlooked) that many of these communities do not provide core services AT THE SAME LEVEL (meaning as high a level) as Peoria does. For example:
Many have volunteer firefighters (not even close to the level of service provided by Peoria);
Many have fewer local government services provided as part of their tax base (code enforcement, trash pickup, etc.);
Many have a much lower level of police presence in the community.
People are moving to these communities for some reason – I”m guessing because they are happy with a lower level of core services in conjunction with a different quality of life and lower taxes. Increasing core services / essential services isn’t the panacea some make it out to be (especially since we already have most of what we need).
Peo Proud,
I think you will find that over time these communities are adding the ‘core services’ that you say they wanted to do without. I think you will also find that taxes are going up faster in these surrounding communities, faster than they are in Peoria. I will acknowledge that lower taxes might well drive people to make the initial move but once there they want all the benefits of a larger community and don’t really want to drive to Peoria to get them.
So why do people move? I don’t think taxes are the biggest issue. I think the big pink elephant in the room is Race and its close cousin Social Class. A lot of folks move out because they don’t want to live next to poorer and blacker folks. They don’t want their kids going to schools with unusually high numbers of poor and blacker folks. Just look at where the larger concentrations of For Sale signs are in Peoria. You can’t miss them any more than a fairie ring on a cool summer morning. They are heaviest along that white black divide.
Another reason people move is that increasingly people treat their homes like they treat their cars. Home maintenance is hard and expensive. Doing it right is harder and costlier still. A lot of these folks buy their homes and essentially run them down and when the time comes, buy a ‘new’ one further out. Simply put, they don’t want a 100 year old home, even if it is well maintained and fully updated. Just like how people buy or don’t buy used cars. People don’t value homes the way folks do in other places in the world, or in different times in this country. People treat their homes as disposable. They buy a new one and when it is tired, dispose of it and buy another new one.
Mahnko…I don’t disagree at all that many of the reasons some individuals give for moving out of Peoria is truly the fact that they want a more homogenous neighborhood (unfortunately). I’ve learned that the individuals that I disagree most or that look and act the least like me are the ones that challenge my view and approach to life and ultimately make me a better person.
But my only point is that simply adding and concentrating on “core services” isn’t going to do for Peoria what some think it will. It’s a good start — and a necessary one — to ensure that basic needs are met, but beyond that some investment in other “quality of life” additions to the community is what really determine its fate down the road.
Peo Proud — People want the best core services and quality of life they can get at the lowest cost. That’s a given. What I’m talking about is priorities. When money is tight — Peoria is potentially facing a $2.5 million or more deficit in 2009; the state has a deficit in the billions — what do you pay for first? Additional quality-of-life amenities or core service needs? What do you cut first?
That’s the only point I’m making. It’s irresponsible to spend taxpayer money on a museum when we can’t pay our bills for basic services like education and infrastructure repair (at the state level) or the CSO project and adequate police protection (at the city level). We have to set priorities, and the museum is not anywhere near the top of that list — from a taxpayer funding standpoint.
Now, if they can get private funding for the whole thing, more power to them. But they can’t. So they should rethink and redesign the project so that it gets more popular support. I’ve already suggested my solution: take the Lakeview element out of the project (i.e., leave Lakeview where it is) and dedicate the downtown museum to history and achievement; reduce the footprint on the Sears block (or find a building in the warehouse district to refurbish) and open the rest of the Sears block (minus Cat’s museum portion) to private development. This would lower the costs, make the museum more attractive since it’s more in line with the public’s original intent (to have a Peoria History Museum), and allow the Sears block to be developed as the public wanted as well (Heart of Peoria Plan).
“People want the best core services and quality of life they can get at the lowest cost. That’s a given.”
I don’t think that is a given. I don’t think people pay that close of attention to what they pay in property taxes and what those taxes pay for. I bet for most folks, it is all rolled up into escrow and is viewed as a single payment that is likely automatically withdrawn. They are much more attentive to day to day details but on a reactive level not proactive.
Schools! That’s why people are leaving the city. One frustrating thing to me is the decent parents leaving Dist. 150. Yeah, that’s a great attitude, leave when the going gets uneasy, because a kid with a different background than your kid is so tough. Stay and help the kids that aren’t getting it. Actually help the teacher. Oh, why do that, why get involved to make the school a better place, why get off your rear end and do something. Oh I forgot, it’s easier to move to Pleasentville where it’s so great.
I would have to agree with “Happy to live IN Peoria” on that one.
Recent incidents in Dunlap prove that there are problems no matter where you go.
My perspective, as a person/citizen/taxpayer: Absolutely no public money should be used to build a museum on the Sears block. Many others have argued the reasons more eloquently than I ever could, so I won’t elaborate on this any further.
My perspective, as a young person who moved here to work for Cat: I don’t give a hoot about Gateway, Civic Center, Riverplex, or a downtown museum, whether or not I’m playing taxes for it. I lived approx. @ Richwoods & Sterling for 2+ years, after which I moved to Germantown. I much preferred my old location, but the home I found across the river was ‘just right’ for me.
None of the sporting events,theater, music, concerts, car shows etc….. interests you?
Sounds like Germantown Hills is a good fit for your lifestyle.
Sporting events… I’ve been to 1 or 2 Chiefs and 2 or 3 Rivermen games. They’re okay, but not a ‘draw’ for me. I’ve never been to a live theater or music performance in the Peoria area outside a bar. I’ve considered going to the car show, but have never made it. It’s not that important considering (a) how infrequently you have to buy a car, (b) how much info there is on the intertubes, and (c) the fact that Peoria doesn’t get the cool concept cars and such.
Germantown has eveything you need then.
Have fun!
Peoriafan,
You make an interesting point. Peoria does have alot to offer in the way of ‘culture.’ Do we really need a $65-$75 museum to improve the situation? I can only dream of the ways that kind of money could be spent to improve Peoria’s ENTIRE image!
peoriafan: I hope you don’t think I’m trying to bash Peoria. I’m not. I like it just fine here. I’m only saying that we don’t necessarily need all these taxpayer-funded moneypits to attract young folks.