From the Journal Star:
Nick Stoffer, a traffic design engineer, told members of the traffic commission that the Federal Highway Administration informed the Public Works Department that a blanket 25 mph speed limit “was not enforceable” and should be avoided. Stoffer said the state’s Department of Transportation echoed the administration’s thoughts.
Huh? Why is a blanket 25 mph residential speed limit “not enforceable,” but a 30 mph speed limit is? Wouldn’t one be just as enforceable as the other? Further confusing matters is this:
Instead, city officials will consider requests from neighborhood groups, district council members and others who want their residential streets or subdivisions to have a lowered speed limit.
So, if every neighborhood in Peoria requests a 25 mph speed limit, the city can do it. Apparently under that scenario, it’s enforceable. So what’s the difference between that and changing all the residential speed limits at once?
One more question: Why does the Federal Highway Administration have anything to say about speed limits on residential city streets?
You must be eating critical thinking wheaties for breakfast ….. again!
“Why does the Federal Highway Administration have anything to say about speed limits on residential city streets? ”
Because the highways can no longer be controlled by the state police. This morning was the first time I’ve seen an officer monitoring the 474/ Rt6 stretch between Pekin and Peoria in months. The avg speed out there is 80 and don’t even get me started on the local streets in Pekin…good lord!
How is the Fed Highway Admin interfering with Peoria city speed limits related – in any way – to whether or not state police monitor 474 and Rt6? Are there federal highway cops with speed traps?
It seems like a 25 mph would be as enforceableenforced by city police as much as a 30 mph currently is.
I think they idea may be that if a speed limit is only 25, then every car driving down that street will be speeding. It seems that 30 is more “acceptable” to most people.
At 25, you would need an officer with a radar gun on every city street. Of course, look at the money the city would make on all those traffic tickets.
According to some sources we receive some money from the Feds for our streets and therefore they can tell us what to do with it. 25 mph or 30 mph won’t make any difference, nobody pays attention to them anyway. If every speeder in Peoria was given a ticket there would be ticket writing 24/7 and it would never stop. Of course collecting on those tickets is another thing. Check with the courthouse and see the volume of tickets that are outstanding and how long some have been that way. Its incredible. IMHO if Peoria could collect on all the fines owed we wouldn’t have a budget deficit. But what the heck do I know?
I’m sick and tired of these speed traps. We need to start considering all the costs of unreasonably low speed limits. Millions of hours of wasted time; wasted fuel (most engines are a lot less efficient at 25mph than they are at 40mph); increased accidents from stressed-out, bored and distracted drivers; law abiding citizens given tickets and having to spend time and money they need for their family. Don’t give me the “just leave a little earlier” crap. If you don’t have to worry about earning a living or taking care of a family, that’s fine, but most people have to drop the children off at a certain time and be to work at a certain time, and be here and there at a certain time, and so forth. You can’t just manufacture time. Time has value. The old saying that time is money, but the truth is time is worth more than money.
They could drop the limit city wide to 20 and it wouldn’t change most peoples driving habit unless the police are out there writing tickets and the media makes a big deal about it- and the portable radar trailers don’t count. I drive from Glen north on Univ to Pioneer & then Allen to Rt 6 everyday and I can’t tell you the last time I saw a cop running radar. This makes Univ from Northmoor to Pioneer a 50MPH zone.
No matter what gets decided it all comes down to enforcement and they won’t enforce the 25 as they don’t enforce the 30.
How/when exactly are law-abiding citizens given tickets?
Mouse — You’re arguing that all drivers should be allowed to travel at the speed of optimal fuel efficiency on all roads in the city? That means that on all roads — including residential streets with children at play and streets with schools on them where children are present — drivers should be allowed to travel roughly between 40 and 60 miles per hour. Are you seriously suggesting that?
I think I have a more fundamental difference with you. You seem to be of the common mindset that roads are the exclusive domain of motor vehicles and should be optimized for motor vehicle use. I believe that roads should be designed in the best interests of all users, including pedestrians, bicyclists, public transportation users, etc.
Mouse: “increased accidents from stressed-out, bored and distracted drivers”
If you’re driving 25 mph, how stressed can you be? I know you don’t want to hear about leaving a little earlier, but seriously, if I leave only 5 minutes earlier and drive at or under the speed limit, I get there on time. AND I’m less stressed when I get there.
the truth is time has no comparable value in money… which is another strange aspect of our culture… we spend all of our time trying to get money… and then spend all kinds of money trying to save time…. I will take time over money anytime! Anyone want to give me their time?
This is all a little confusing. The effort to lower residential speed limits in Peoria or parts of Peoria, to 25 was initiated BY neighborhoods. I think it’s all a little silly. Few folks abide the 30 now and enforcement is virtually non existent. So lowering it further is rather ineffectual unless there is going to be a sharp increase in funding for the police department. Well we know where that money went…. landscaping.
Methinks this all an effort by local officials to wash their hands of this, rather than take ownership of the request to reply with the obvious and predictable; “No we are not doing this”. It’s stupid. Blame it on the fed.
Here’s an idea, eliminate speed limits and put in speed bumps… (perhaps the car repair shops would pay for them.)
It’s a stupid idea anyway, get some common sense thinking into this scene; what is the difference between 25 and 30 mph except the number five?
No, CJ, I didn’t say all streets should be 40-60, but they shouldn’t all be 25 either. Use some sense and stop this constant push for lower speed limits. As for the “mindset” -pedestrians belong on sidewalks, “public transportation” as it relates to streets in Peoria means buses, which are motor vehicles. I’d rather not comment on bicyclists, but, notwithstanding the propaganda, there aren’t many of them. As for those who want “enforcement”, you drive me nuts. There is a lot of real crime in this city. And real traffic offenses – drunk driving is but one of them. Police resources are tight. They should be devoted primarily to real crime, IMO.
This entire discussion stems from the way the Peoria area has been built. In many ways, streets and roads have “natural” speed limits, that is, a speed that most drivers feel is both safe and efficient. It’s interesting how psychological speed limits can be.
In older neighborhoods, with narrower streets and on-street parking, speeds by necessity rarely exceed 30 mph, due to the lack of room to manuever in case a correction needs to be made. A thick tree canopy over a street can also affect speeds as it gives the appearance of less space to manuever. Brick streets also curb speeding, often due to their old age and the uneven traveling surface. Multiple intersections, such as your classic gridiron neighborhoods, also help to reduce speeds as there’s more cross traffic to worry about.
On the other hand, more sprawl developments and neighborhoods were built with roads and streets made to almost coddle drivers — wide swaths of pavement, gentle curves, fewer intersections and even less 4-way intersections. These areas often not only discourage on-street parking but prohibit it, which effectively makes the driving lane even wider and encourages higher speeds of travel.
The mitigation factors to retrofit these newer neighborhoods often do result in traffic calming techniques, such as kcdad’s suggestion of speed bumps. However, there are maintenance and accessibility issues — for instance, plows lifting their plow for the speed bumps in the winter (good luck with that), or slowing emergency vehicles en route to/from a house fire, medical emergency, etc.
Many construction and safety guidelines for roads of all nature, from high-speed interstates to, yes, even local streets, are set (or strongly suggested) by either the Federal Highway Administration or by AASHTO, the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials, a board of state highway and transportation officials from around the country. AASHTO publishes their design guidelines in their “A Policy on Geometric Design of Highways and Streets”, more commonly referred to as the “Green Book”.
As to bicycles, on Wednesday evening I was visiting a friend that lives near University and Nowland and observed a LARGE number of cyclists (50 plus)at a fairly high rate of speed – more than 25mph, blowing through stop signs and encouraging the others behind them by yelling “CLEAR!”
This kind of abuse also happens all over the rural county roads. They are rude, obnoxious, break traffic laws, throw their little water bottles out in the street as trash, etc.
Ticket the damned cyclists!
Back on track…
Speed limits should be set at the rate of speed at which 80% of the traffic travels at. This has been done in more progressive areas of the country for years.
mdd, this brings up my question.
I was driving next to a bicyclist on University near Northmoor. He insisted on riding on University, and that’s not exactly a desolate stretch of roadway, when right next to him was an empty sidewalk.
Wouldn’t it be safer to ride on a sidewalk when possible? Or is this a matter of “this road is as much mine as it yours?”.
Bicycles are not allowed on sidewalks. They are road vehicles and must obey the same rules of the road automobile drivers do.
As for those bicycle “gangs”, automobile drivers are required to yield to pedestrians and bicycles, funeral processions and post office vehicles. NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE.
Not true, kcdad. Bicycles can operate on the sidewalk or the roadway. When on the sidewalk, they have to yield to pedestrians, and otherwise have to follow all the rules a pedestrian must follow. When on the roadway, they are subject to the same regulations as the driver of a motor vehicle — that would include obeying stop signs. See sections 28-486 through 28-506 of Peoria’s municipal code. Of particular note regarding another comment above:
I am busting out my rules of the road….
“When walking or riding your bicycle on a sidewalk or on or along a crosswalk,
you must yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and give an audible signal before
overtaking and passing them. You must operate as a pedestrian. Watch for signs
that prohibit riding bicycles on sidewalks and crosswalks.”
Ok…
“You, as well as others who use public roads, must obey the traffic laws so that
everyone can get to their destinations safely. Ride your bicycle as a car should be
driven.”
Is that not essentially what I just said?
kcdad wrote” As for those bicycle “gangs”, automobile drivers are required to yield to pedestrians and bicycles, funeral processions and post office vehicles. NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE.”
Now, how in the world would a motorist be able to yield to someone else purposely running a stop sign or other traffic device?
Motorists are required to yield to pedestrians NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE. Yeah, right. If the motorists are in California, maybe Utah, many other werstern states that may be true – it’s surely not true in Peoria. They don’t yield to pedestrians in crosswalks. Motorists often don’t bother to look both ways to see that there are in fact any pedestrians that they might be inclined, if they knew the rules of the road, to yield to.
Picture Dustin Hoffman in Midnight Cowboy “Hey I’m walkin’ here!”
The gang of bikes was covered in the Journal Star – it was some sort of memorial ride.
I don’t care if the gang of bikes was a memorial ride or not – they broke the laws numerous times – too many to count and did endanger people as a result. I sure didn’t see a police escort and blocked off streets?
kohlrabi, our family went to Cali last year and I was shocked at the courtesy given by motorists to pedestrians.
Kohlrabi and Mazr,
Yup California – the land of nuts and fruits!
8 years ago out where we live there was a visiting twit in a nearby subdivision who thought he was a bronze Greek god and would run down the center of our half mile long straight stretch of 2 lane road posted at 35 MPH in spite of there being new, terrific and uninterrupted sidewalks on both sides. At first I along with other neighbors was intimidated by his stupidity or death wish, but soon we all decided he knew what risk he was taking and didn’t budge all that much. Soon the idiot got the idea! And YES it turned out he was from CA!
Without Malice watch that CA bashing please. There are a couple of us on this blog including me that was born and raised in CA and are proud of it. Thank you.