[Beth Akeson is Vice Chairman of the Heart of Peoria Commission, a former candidate for District 150 School Board, and a friend of mine. She wanted to comment on my recent post about the proposed South Peoria grocery store, and I felt it would actually work better as a Guest Editorial. More people will see it and can comment on it directly this way. –C. J.]
There is more to the visit and if CJ doesn’t mind I would like to add the following…
CJ and I met yesterday for lunch to talk about the Heart of Peoria Commission. In conversation the grocery store topic surfaced and I said Councilman Gulley suggested I visit and talk with Mr. Abud and I suggested maybe we should do it together… CJ agreed and on we went.
During our visit, Mr. Abud told us in addition to the grocery store he had plans for a full scale truck stop (phase three), a Laundromat (phase two) and he told us the grocery store (phase one) was dependent on securing a liquor license. He warned us that if he does not get a liquor license for the grocery store he would be forced to stop his work on the grocery store and move the business to Ohio. He claims it would not make financial sense to continue. Mr. Abud indicated he was currently in negotiations with the city to secure incentives for the truck-stop phase of the project and that he spoke with City Manager Randy Oliver and Economic Development Director Craig Hullinger that morning, at the site, regarding the truck-stop.
I asked Mr. Abud if he could rank the importance of each component of this project and he said the most valuable would be the liquor business followed by diesel gas sales and the grocery business would be last. He mentioned a Laundromat in passing, but CJ and I did not ask for Laundromat details.
Mr. Abud presented some good arguments for why he should be allowed to sell liquor. Many of these arguments CJ has articulated on his blog. Mr. Abud also mentioned a couple of places that currently sell liquor, one that sells beer at very high prices and the other that according to Mr. Abud sells liquor without the required license using a pass code system (what ever that means).
My view, of course, is that the Heart of Peoria Plan should be the guidepost as projects are proposed. Amenities for families living in the Heart of Peoria Plan area should be accessible without needing to own or have access to an automobile. The walk to the grocery store should be nice; in fact, it should be inspiring. All citizens should be able to walk out their front door and feel the world is a wonderful and safe place. Our city’s built environment should convey to each and every one of us, “You matter and we care about you!†That feeling should be felt everywhere in Peoria and yet, I am sad to say, that is not the case.
CJ and I spent more time speaking to Mr. Abud than we planned and I left with conflicted feelings about this deal. I know this area is desperate for a grocery store, but I believe Peoria’s number one problem is that we always appear desperate. We were desperate for riverfront development, desperate for Campus town, desperate for Cub Foods, desperate for…you name it. Could it be that Peoria’s desperation prevents successful long term real population growth and prevents truly quality projects from being developed in the older sections of our city?
As time goes on we have witnessed solid quality businesses moving north and the buildings they once occupied are now housing predatory (my opinion) operations which do nothing to enhance the neighborhood’s quality of life or we see the buildings sit vacant adding to the sense of despair. A truck-stop in this part of town will reinforce the current blighted conditions. Would any of us choose to live next to a truck stop? And if we wouldn’t want that for ourselves why would we knowingly allow this to be developed near Harrison Homes? I asked Mr. Abud if he would want to live near a truck stop and he said no.
Development for development’s sake is not a good idea. My favorite quote is from Winston Churchill who said, “We shape our cities and then they shape us.” Enough said.
Sure, a walk to the grocery story should be “inspiring.” Wonderful. But, first, let’s make sure that a grocery store exists and that it has fresh vegetables, fruit, and meat, not just Pepsi and Twinkies. I doubt that Beth lives in a depressed area that lacks readily available wholesome food. If she did, she would know that before we can be inspired we have to be well nourished. Does anyone want to live next to a diesel spewing truck stop? Of course not. But, think about it. Does anyone really WANT to live in Harrison Homes? Get real. Sounds to me like the “Heart of Peoria Commission” could use a few new faces – like people who actually live in the heart of Peoria!
Laura,
You don’t have to live in Harrison Homes to know that it should be a better place to live than it is. If you knew more about the effort Beth has put into the Heart of Peoria Commission you would know that she has been the moving force to encourage needed change in Peoria.
But let’s face it. No amount of meetings or good intentions are going to make Harrison Homes a better place to live.
CJ did you or Mrs.Akeson ask Mr. Abud why he thought a truck stop would be feasible in that area aside from the obvious? Were any studies done on his part particularly given that Bartonville has established competition already in place.
It goes back to CJ’s original question, what is the vision? Is the vision a grocery store with out liquor? If so then state that and work on bringing it about. Don’t just keep waiting for developers to appear, and then when one does tell people it isn’t good enough, that they deserve better. I think it is a little harsh to want people to wait for this vision to come to fruition when they just want some place to buy essentials without paying convience store prices. LaVetta Rica pointed out in the beginning of the Heart of Peoria project there was a special form district for them, but by the end of the process it had been cut out. If you can’t even give them a slide in a PowerPoint presentation, what does that say about the commitment?
The only people who are desperate are the ones who have to make a 3 day hike to get to a grocery store. Its easy for someone who has easy access to “amenities”. But for the people who live in that area however, it is a necessity. I realize that her concerns are genuine but but they are completely unrealistic. I would advise that she try to live within the constraints of the people leaving in that part of town and then see how she feels.
As for her argument:
“Would any of us live next to a truck stop?”
Let’s be serious, if your going to guage the livability of a neighborhood by whether or not the upper-class of Peoria would find it acceptable than we’d better build a half-dozen Starbucks down there immediately and someone quick build an open air mall!
Why not ask the people who live there how they feel.
Plans are great, but when they get in the way of people’s lives that when you need to re-evaluate your plan…
Observer: No, no, no — all Beth is saying is that we should do unto others as we would want others to do unto us. The point is that no one wants to live next to a truck stop; it’s patently incompatible with a residential area. If you were to go down there and see the block where he wants to put this truck stop, you would see that it’s immediately adjacent to Harrison Homes. Now, isn’t that just like kicking a guy when he’s down? I mean, these people are already poor and capable of little, if any, mobility; must we assault their dignity even more by putting a huge truck stop right next door with its light pollution, rumbling semis, and stinking diesel fuel all hours of the day and night? Come on, this isn’t a class issue — it’s a common decency issue.
However, you’re right about the last part — we need to ask the people who live there how they feel and what they want. In fact, what that area really needs (and I’ve mentioned this to Beth) is a form-based code. That would require there to be a charrette process to get the input of the residents in that area, then draw up and codify a plan to improve that neighborhood, just like we did with Sheridan/Loucks, Prospect, West Main, and the Warehouse District. Of course, that costs money, but it would be money well-spent.
Jim H. — Beth asked Abud if he had done an economic study for the supermarket, and he had. Not surprisingly, the study found that this area was underserved. Shocker, right? I don’t remember if she asked or if Abud volunteered whether he had done a study on the truck stop. Sorry.
When Abud says ‘truckstop’, what is he really saying? Surely not a ‘Dixie’ like truck stop, where dozens of trucks are camping overnight? It could be nothing more than a gas station that can fuel semi trucks (high ceiling, diesel, wide room to manuever in). I can certainly see the need for a fueling station.
Well it was nice of the socialites to stop by and visit our end of town. You ask “Do we want to live next to a truck stop?” I ask have you even noticed what that area looks like now. Trucks rumble by day and night anyway, it is dirty, dusty, dark, and depressing to say the least. Crime is abundant. Any improvement would be welcomed. It is also the southern gateway into Peoria. I would welcome a big brightly lit truck stop with a nice market attached, a laundry, and maybe even a Subway or something. Christ add a Starbucks. As for living next to it, who is?? Most of the Harrison is empty and will be tore down soon anyway. The new housing there can be turned away from the truck stop and what is Washington Street. Buffers can be added to help the established neighborhoods that are there now. They did it when they built those new homes in the 70’s along south Sheridan Road by the Warners and other areas also. But wait, the city screwed those folks when it abandon south town and did away with its residential planning. (Thanks Mayor McGoof)
If it is planned correctly, the store will be what is advertised, the truck plaza is large enough, then it should be an improvement to SW Washington Street and to the area as a whole. It is after all mostly commercial down there anyway. I would hope that it would spawn other businesses to locate and make the southern entrance into our city much nicer than it is now. But you know what? The city and all its commissions will kick this around like they do everything else and we’ll end up with nothing or another half assed project.
CJ,
as I said at last night’s meeting on the comprehensive plan, we need a city wide vision and then WE seek those who will fulfill that mission. Once again we are going to let a developer try to hold us hostage stating “if I don’t get a liquor license I’ll go somewhere else.” So go.
It appears that the arguements that he only wants a small amount of space to sell liquor, yet the deal hinges on it are incompatible. Additonally, while pictures of a store in California are nice, as I guess he supplied them, what about the three stores in Chicagoland. Where are those pictures. What does the store in Elgin look like, what about the one on Pulaski St. That seems to keep getting supressed. My understanding that a neighborhood activist asked that of a council member and the hostile response was that we needed to look at the California stores. I would guess the Chicago stores are more relevant. Same state laws, similiar populatioins and demographics.
I think there needs to be a roadtrip to Chicago. I could only find two of three stores up there. I too found early on that the Pulaksi corp. dissolved several years ago. Too much is not sitting right. This council MUST start learning from the mistakes of the past. Does this area need a grocery store? Yes. So go and search for someone who will meet the need with the requirements that WE set forward. Had a dicussion about this type of approach last night after the meeting. Other cities do it. They see successfull businesses in other communities, set a game plan and approach them with what is desired. If it doesn’t match, then move on to the next guy. Design the Southern gateway with what the citizens want, what will be best for the community and market that area to achieve the vision. Don’t settle. Never be held hostage.
This city is just a whore to development. They are so scared that they will lose a project to East Peoria or elsewhere (Ohio, in this case) that the bend over backward to the developers will. Let’s get the residents involved and if they want a liquor store in the grocery let them have it. If they want a truck stop let it be built. Things may actually get better in the South if people feel they have a bit of control in the destiny of their neighborhood.
Oh boo hoo. A truck stop next to residential areas. What would you rather have…a truck stop or…a double homicide! The more lights the better at that area. Drive through sometime at about 10 pm. It is pitch black. Perfect lighting for criminals. Also, the property as of right now is lacking anything! It’s not like that ridiculous Cub Foods store.
Bring on the truck stop!
Whatever happened to the plan to have a “Co-op” in the South side of Peoria? This was discussed over and over again with Clyde Gulley. That was a neighborhood grocery system. Also, why are we allowing a developer to hold us hostage? Either you play it his way or he will pick up his toys and go home. There are too many unasked questions on this and too many unanswered questions. A lot more needs to be looked into before we hand out liquor licenses and other permits. If he is genuinely interested in doing business in our area he will be more than happy to provide every last period on the page for close scrutiny by the community. We need the business there but at what cost?
All in favor of building the truck stop next MJJ’s house vote aye. The co-op seems to have lost momentum. Too bad. I am not sure who was the lead person for that project.
Thank you for reading my comments.
When I talked with CJ about his grocery store blog I said I thought it was important for his readers to know there was potentially more to the story.
Also important to know: CJ and I are speaking for ourselves and not the Heart of Peoria Commission. This is important for all to keep in mind especially as CJ blogs about other Heart of Peoria Commission issues. And for the record, I have not stated my views regarding the grocery store. No one has asked fro my opinion. I would like to see the project develop in the most compatible way possible with the vision of the area as stated in the Heart of Peoria Plan.
CJ’s readership may or may not know that the Heart of Peoria Commission has no regulatory authority. Currently, our role has been to advocate for the Principles of New Urbanism and to keep the Heart of Peoria Plan alive in the minds of policy makers. Additionally, we have had no budget for our work. It has been voluntary-both in time and money.
The truck-stop, as I said in my initial comments, is in the discussion stage. I found this out when I called Peoria’s Economic Development office. I was gathering information about Mr. Abud’s plans for my own edification. I needed more information before I could ask to have it put on a future Heart of Peoria Commission agenda fo discussion. Remember, I am not the Chairman and I, as a commissioner, can only make suggestions about what goes on our agendas. No one is required or obligated to bring plans to our commission. I think it is sometimes suggested but officially there is no requirement.
I would like to respond to some of the comments and questions.
Jim H: I did ask Mr. Abud about an economic study for the truck-stop. Mr. Abud said he and his partners studied all components.
Bean Counter: Yes, there is more work to do and I feel you are correct when you say we shouldn’t just sit and wait for developers. I feel you are also correct to say that when someone comes with a project we shouldn’t criticize them. Preferably, we would have a way to share with them, early in the process, the desires and needs of the citizens in the area. Ideally some of these projects could be put together as public/private partnerships, but that also requires money and political support.
The Heart of Peoria Plan is clear about the desire and the needs- it was written by the citizens who came to the Duany Plater Zyberk (DPZ) Charrette in 2002. The DPZ team didn’t write the plan our citizens did and I hopefully you participated during that time.
Our dilemma or question remains: How do we get this information in the hands of the people who are willing to invest at the appropriate time? We have suggested to the city staff that we need to find a way to budget for communication and education. The plan is a lengthy document and it is too expensive to mass produce. The cost of the plan in color is $125.00 for one document and reduced to $25.00 if copied in black and white. It can be accessed on line in PDF for free but it is rather expensive to print at home because it is 78 pages. These are just some of the hurdles we face.
Also, keep in mind the Heart of Peoria Plan is just a plan and unfortunately, at this point, there are no funds to have all 8000 acres codified at once even though we won’t get the results the citizens asked for without the appropriate policy/ordinance changes. The current form-districts were the result of the district Council Members combining dollars earmarked for their districts and agreeing to use that money to fund the 2006 form-based code charrette and the requisite work to write the documents. This has been a monumental effort by the Peoria Planning and Growth Department. They have worked tirelessly on this job for over a year. In fact, our commission went without city staffing for six months so that the code could be completed with the appropriate public meetings etc. We all can be proud of their work and I am grateful our district Council Members felt the form-based code work was necessary.
Emtronics: The Heart of Peoria Plan is what I am using as a guide as I make comments. I will link the eight relevant pages here if you are interested. The Heart of Peoria Plan, as I am sure you know, does not advocate for suburban development. The Southern Gateway Area study completed in 2001 was reviewed by DPZ and you may want to evaluate their view and conclusions when you read through the linked pages. We are also handicapped by the need for more public education on the idea expressed in the plan. Over one thousand people attended the DPZ charrette, but still the concepts are not clear to the majority of our citizens. Some people are also discouraged because they see little evidence of improvement and then they conclude it won’t ever happen so why bother. You seem to understand the issues and care about them. I am sometimes frustrated, like you seem to be, and I have been told to be more patient. I have been criticized for wanting too much too fast, yet I continue to make every effort to promote the Heart of Peoria Plan when ever it is possible.
SD: I took a trip to visit the Chicago Co-op and took pictures over a year ago. They have an impressive operation.
The Heart of Peoria Commission meetings are at 8:00 A.M. the fourth Friday of the month. I urge all to attend.
I don’t want to come off as unappreciative of anyone’s time/effort/commitment. Clearly you are doing and not just talking, like me. I guess for me it just seems a little silly to ask the question “Would you choose to live next to a truckstop,” when if you asked people “Would you rather live next to a truck stop or live on the SouthSide?” a lot of people are going to pick option A. The impression, real or percieved, is that no one is choosing to live/invest in the Southside, and turning down someone wanting to do that doesn’t seem right. Sure having a Haddads there would be preferable but can anyone really make that happen? Something has to start the movement and if it is someplace that at least sells fresh produce and meat, at least it isn’t a Check into Cash.
You’re wrong Bean Counter. people are buying homes and improving them to live on the southside. Want a pictures of one across the street from me or the one on West Ann, or the one on Marquette?
Emtronics I am glad you can provide pictures of three homes on the southside that have been improved. I can get pictures of hundreds that have and will continue to fall into ruin untill the city finally comes in and knocks them down. How many southside homes do people walk away from over a few hundred dollars in unpaid property taxes? The fact that you can buy a nice home on the southside for less then the cost of a modest used car ought to tell you something. The average southside home is probably worth less then $10,000 and many can be bought for $3,000 or less. What does that say about your neighborhood?
That’s why I said perceived. It may not be the case, but that’s what the majority of Peorian’s think, right or wrong. You run into this attitude all the time when you defend the Southside on the various blogs. It is great that you are going to be on the news promoting your neighborhood, it will help people realize that there is good on the Southside. Peoria needs a “Won’t You Be My Neighboor” campaign. People who wouldn’t ever consider calling the Southside home, might if they knew they could be your neighbor or someone like you. Like it or not investing in the Southside is considered risky, there needs to be a way to mitigate that risk. TIFs and their like aren’t applicable to families, but it is stable families that are going to fight the deterioration.
“City knocks them down..” I wish! The city hardley ever knocks one down but I wish they did. It would be a big improvement. That is part of the problem. A house that needs torn down sitting in a great neighborhood (because of a fire let’s say) would be gone, but here on the south side, it sits boarded up for years. I also hate to tell you guys but they are building brand new homes off of Richard Pryor Pl. Have a whole bunch of them there and that too is part of the south side. Damn, it’s hard to break stereo types.
The developers of the proposed grocery coop were looking at the site formerly occupied by Walgreen’s at Lincoln Square Shopping Center. The developers were unable to negotiate terms for a lease agreement with Barr Real Estate, the agents for Walgreens. There was also a conflict with the tenants in the center because one of the existing tenants is Shoprite Grocery Store.
Beth:
Are the pictures of the CO-OP on Hyde Park Blvd in Chicago? If so, would you write a Guest Editorial about that topic and post pictures?
Bean Counter:
You are absolutely correct! 🙂 Peoria needs a “Won’t You Be My Neighbor†campaign.
We are all in this together — if we are not willing to work together, the weakest, most vulnerable, most neglected links in our city really determine the health of our entire city. As a city, we keep expanding and acting like an ostrich with its head in the sand — and the multiple problems only fester and grow larger, making all of us weaker.
Large capital investments in the zoo for animals and some bricks or the museum are ways to donate ones money and make a mark for one’s posterity, nevertheless, large capital investments in an idea like the CO-OP in Chicago, help people to learn to help themselves and their posterty to break the cycle of poverty which is what we are looking to change —- isn’t it?
A hand-up vs. a hand-out!
Actually there were several different options to the co-op situation. We offered to open a drive thru grocery store on the south side and it was not met with very much enthusiasm. Everyone at the meetings we attended wanted only the co-op idea and just shuffled us off out of the scene. Our store would not sell liquor, or lottery, junk or generics. We were willing to employ teenagers that were prescreened and tutored to work in the store. But as I said we weren’t greeted with enthusiasm. BTW Beth you gave the date and time for the HOP meetings but not the place. I would like to attend.
SD: That is true that the drive thru grocery did not meet with enthusiasm. Nevertheless the Southside remains without a grocery store — the CO-OP or drive thru grocery are both better options than what is being courted and advanced by Councilman Gulley.
Karrie – Shoprite and Aldi’s are both located on Western (near the intersection with Lincoln).
SD: Our meetings are in the conference room on the fourth floor of City Hall
noticed as follows:
HEART OF PEORIA COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
CITY HALL, 419 FULTON STREET, SUITE 404
8:00 a.m. – 10:30 a.m.
Karrie: I am unable to post the pictures now for some reason? When CJ returns to town I will see if he will post them…Time flies I took these photos after the 1st District Solutions meeting in City Hall June 2005-I thought they were more recent.
I have five photos which will give anyone interested an idea of what Peoria could expect providing there was the same type of support.
PrairieCelt:
The idea of a grocery co-op is much different than a Shoprite or an Aldi’s. It is a hand-up type of operation that provides services and helps people to become self-sufficient.
I have lived in South Peoria for 44 yrs and Im proud of this. We don’t need people who have never lived here or that have chosen to move out telling us what we should except.. If you don’t live here you don’t know the problems of stores that sell liquor. I live by a liquor store and a so called grocery store that sells liquor, there is not one day that goes by that someone is not peeing out by the dumpster not caring if there is a child or female around. You should sit outside and smell this when it gets really hot and humid. We also are on a daily basis picking up there trash and mess’s left behind. Mr Abud is planning security for the first 6 months what happens after that?? He is not getting the liquor license, the location is getting the license so he could leave, sell , or change corporations and it could be a full blown liquor store that is not needed in our area. We are looking forward to a brand new school going into this area but we certainly are not looking forward to our children being subjected to the harmful effects of alcohol. There is already 2 liquor establishments within a stones throw and also over 20 liqour establishments in the South Side. The facts are that research has stated neighborhoods where bars, restaurants, and liquor, and other stores that sell alcohol that are close together suffer more frequent incidences of violence and other alcohol related problems. The strong connection between alcohol and violence has been clear for a long time-but now we know that this connection also relates to the location of places that sell alcohol.(Pacific Institute For Research And Evaluation) Once again last night we had a pray session relating to the 8th death in our city most occuring in the South Side denouncing violence but yet we are suppose to say ok to the most violable substance causing this violence. We cannot have it both ways. WE DO NEED A DECENT GROCERY STORE BUT THE $64,000.00 QUESTION IS DO THE PEOPLE OF THE SOUTH SIDE HAVE TO EXCEPT THE SELLING OF ALCOHOL TO GET THIS????? I THINK THE ANSWER IS NO…….
These posts illustrate the best of blogging. Divergent opinions with excellent debate. I’m interested in New Urbanism but new to it all. This has been highly informative. Don’t know how I’d vote if I was on the zoning or planning commissions or city council. But this has got me thinking. Everyone seems to be operating in good faith just with different viewpoints.
One of the Heart of Peoria Commissioners found this article which appeared in the June 2000 issue of Social Science & Medicine.
I thought I would post it especially with respect to the comments made by LA. I think it speaks to her/his point….
June 6, 2000
Off-Premises Liquor Stores Targeted to Poor Urban Blacks
Researchers at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health have shown that predominantly black, low-income neighborhoods in Baltimore were eight times more likely to have carry-out liquor stores than white or racially integrated neighborhoods. Conversely, in higher-income Baltimore neighborhoods a higher percentage of black residents was not associated with a higher per capita number of off-site liquor stores.
First author Thomas A. LaVeist, PhD, MA, associate professor, Health Policy and Management, the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, said, “Our data reveal an intersection of race and income status that places low-income African-American communities at greater risk for alcohol availability through off-premises liquor stores. Such stores have been shown to be an important component of the social infrastructure that destabilizes communities.” The study appeared in the June 2000 issue of Social Science & Medicine.
The authors noted that this disproportionate concentration of off-premises liquor outlets is significant in that these stores typically sell alcohol chilled and in larger quantities than in taverns or restaurants (40 and 64 oz. bottles), ready for immediate consumption on a street corner, in a nearby park, or in a motor vehicle — drinking patterns more likely to result in excessive drinking, public drunkenness, automobile crashes, and physical violence. Some past studies have further suggested that such drinking behaviors in low-income black communities also distort black youths’ perceptions of what constitutes an appropriate level of alcohol consumption.
The researchers used U.S. Census data on the racial composition and median income within each of Baltimore’s 194 predominantly residential census tracts. They then examined the relationship between a neighborhood’s racial composition and median income and its per capita number of licensed liquor stores. They found that less than one quarter of Baltimore’s population lived in integrated census tracts (those where between 25 and 74 percent of the population was black). Over 45 percent of the population lived in predominantly black census tracts (75 percent or more black), while 32 percent were living in predominantly white census tracts (24 percent or less black). Median annual incomes for the individual census tracts ranged from $2,660 to $64,976.
The income status and racial composition of a neighborhood were each independently predictive of the per capita number of liquor stores within an area — both low-income census tracts and predominantly black census tracts had significantly more liquor stores per capita than either more affluent or predominantly white communities. Neighborhoods that were both low-income and predominantly black had even more significant numbers of liquor stores — up to eight times as many — compared to other communities. This association between a neighborhood’s black population and its per capita number of liquor stores, however, held true only for low-income communities. In higher-income census tracts, a higher percentage of black residents was not associated with a higher number of liquor stores.
The authors acknowledged that further research is needed to definitively determine whether the demand for alcohol in poorer communities is affecting its supply, or whether supply is inducing demand. They cited research on crack cocaine use, however, that indicates that the drug’s easy availability does encourage increased use.
In any case, Dr. LaVeist said, “The availability of alcohol in poor black communities is an issue that policy makers, health professionals, clergy, community activists, and other concerned citizens must address in their efforts to reduce alcohol abuse and its effects in African-American communities.”
Public Affairs Media Contacts for the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health: Tim Parsons or Kenna Brigham @ 410-955-6878 or paffairs@jhsph.edu.
Denying this business a liquor licence does nothing to get rid of the problem places. What I get out of reading this article is that there needs to be a city wide ordinance banning the sale of “alcohol chilled and in larger quantities than in taverns or restaurants (40 and 64 oz. bottles), ready for immediate consumption” Any establishment found in violation, their license is revoked.
Oh, my Bean Counter, the area liquor distributors are going to be after you for that statement. You’ll be cutting into their pocket. They already want it to be illegal to buy a bottle of wine out of state (even thought they won’t bring that same wine into the state BTW) and have it shipped here. And you suggest ban “cold 40’s sales”??? That “Bud” truck across the street from your house isn’t making a delivery, there is a sniper in there!! 🙂
Regardless, if this development were occuring on Rt. 91 between Route 150 and Dunlap, I doubt there would be much debate.
Haddad’s has been brought up. Regardless if Haddads sells alcohol or not, they do close at 9 PM. For a neighborhood grocery store, this seems appropriate. Haddads probably realized a long time ago there is no reason to be open 24 hours or until 1 am like the big box stores and that being open that late with lights glaring isn’t neighborhood friendly. Really, how many people would go grocery shopping at Haddads at 1 am? And people love Haddads and come from all over Peoria to shop there. Same deal with this new place. If the new owner would run Haddad’s hours (in the grocery part only, not the truck stop part…I’m sure if he is going to invest 5M, he can make that division happen) because he truly wants to help, be part of and benefit the neighborhood, closing at 9 PM should not be an issue for him while it would help curtail the “hanging around” like you see on the corner of Prospect and Frye. I don’t think the fact that alcohol being sold is as much of the problem as WHEN it is being sold.
They can distribute it all they want it just can’t be cold 🙂 I was being generous, Google tells me there are cities that ban all sales of alcohol in containers over 24oz.
LA makes a very valid point. People who live in the South Side areas need to be part of the process, both because that’s the only way to get buy-in and because they know better than anyone what the problems are and what steps and changes will not work, what will work and what may work. We often make only feeble attempts to include the people who need to be included. LA, can you continue the discussion? How can people like you become more involved, so that the City’s answers to our issues have a greater chance of being hte right answers and of succeeding?
hmmmm, the Village of Dunlap could really use a grocery store and a second location that sells package liquor….
I’ve lived on the Southside my entire life of 69 years. More than most of you out there have even lived. Six proud generations of my family have lived and flourished on the Southside. It’s no secret that I have been very out spoken at neighborhood meetings and the city council always lobbying for improvements in the Southside on housing, business, loud noise, better lighting, streets, sidewalks, etc. you name it and I have been there and done that. So with those credentil’s I think I am very well qualified to speak my mind on the issues facing us in the southern valley without being chastised as being rich and fancy or not knowing what the Southside needs or does’nt need. As president of Olde Towne South Neighborhood Assoc. I’m hoping that all of you are aware of how hard we have been working to turn things around and make a differance. If not you can take my word for it that we have been breaking our backs and butts and that is putting it mildly. I want you to know that we Southsiders have the same hopes and dreams as everyone in this city of mine. We go to our different church’s on Sunday and pray for peace in our neighborhoods. We want safe and good quality of life just like other area’s of this city enjoys. Do I think another business selling liquor will give this to us? NO NO NO. As I have said adamantly many times before the Southside has more than our share of liquor establishments. Do we need a decent grocery store? YES YES YES but do we have to be treated like 3rd 4th and 5th class citizens by being held hostage when Mr. Abud states no liquor no store I don’t think so. I too was given a tour of the planned grocery-liquor selling store. In fact before all this was made public I had a two hour meeting with Mr. Abud and Mr. Gulley. If I recall right, on that night Mr. Abud stated that he did’nt have much if anything to do with the CA stores. It was only after doing my homework and confronting Mr. Gulley with the facts, by those living in Chicago and Ohio, that told me those stores of his there were no better than what we have at Lincoln and Western Ave. That’s when his stores in CA became the bright and shinning example for us. I also did my homework on CA and was told most of his stores (La Princesa) are located in the depressed area’s of Salinas CA. Humn us poor folks must spend alot of money on liquor for it to be so very important. Finally do I think we need a truck stop with it’s possiblities of prostitution and litter associated with it? NO NO NO. Come on people we want that area cleaned up we are going to have a new Harrison school just around the corner and new houses in the future. Don’t you think we owe it to the children on the Southside to give them better than what they have now???? Don’t you think the people on the Southside want and should have a safe clean enviroment for there children to enjoy and grow in just like the other area’s of this city??? Nothing more or nothing less but the same and a truck stop sure won’t do it……
Today at the Kentucky Derby a horse named. Street Sense, won. Maybe we should take a page from his book. Street Sense along with academically educated sense and other properties combined could help the south side and other depressed areas of Peoria. As was mentioned above, those that live there know what will and won’t work. They need to put their street sense together with others business accumen and education and make a plan that is workable for the area. Pull in some great grandparents, grandparents, parents, teens and pre-teens and get ideas and desires and work them into the meatloaf all togther and get something going that fits the area.
SD: Yes, like what Stephen Covey offered to do in Fall 1994, that he would personally come back and mentor Peoria for FREE 🙂 if Peoria would develop a mission statement that came from the bowels of our community. Wonder if that offer is still available after all these years have passed?
I am against allowing any establishment operating in the southside of Peoria where A LIQOUR LICENSE is the requirement prior to committing. Beth and President Olde Towne South have made very, very valid points and convinced me. Let Mr. Abud leave for Cleveland where there are more than 10x the amount of these type stores and truck stops.
After doing some heavy reading, listening to a couple of southside posters here and living here also, I am no longer in approval of this guy’s grocery store w/ liquior or truck stop or laundry or whatever. After all my reading I took a trip to Shoprite last night at 7pm. What a fricken zoo! We on the southside don’t need another one of these shitholes.
Any possibility that if he does open this grocery store that his liquor sales will decrease the sales of the other 2-bit liquor stores enough that a few of them may go out of business? Would that not be a good thing?
At my meeting with Mr Abud I asked him about the truck facilty and he said that gas for semi trucks and private cars would be available.Also there will be stalls for washing semi trucks. When I ask him if they will be sleeping over nights, he didn’t say yes or no. He did tho make the comment that the truckers may choose not to want to stay over- night because of the crime problem in the area.I told him that I wasn’t born yesterday and that I new of the problems of prostitution and and other vices associated with truck stops and he made no comment.
The property mentioned in this discussion is about 100 yds away from Harrison Homes, and about 4 blocks from the High School…my initial reaction is that which no one is mentioning specifically. Namely the other possible side to this business proposition;
maybe: drugs. predators. child predators. prostituion.
Truck stops can often attract an unsavory criminal element that I wouldn’t want my children that close to.
A bit different from “neighborhood grocery store”?????
Appears to me that the asphalt will come right up to
the street outside the homes and yards of many families.
If a grocery store is needed, why not a grocery store???
Liquor sales go hand in hand with a list of unchallengable, related problems.
I of course do not wish to infer that Mr. Abud’s intent
is to encourage, benefit, or contribute directly in any way to the problem issues I have mentioned.
I have no desire to offend him in any way but wish to contribute some open-ness to this dialogue.
I am sure he is a person of integrity trying to make a living just like the rest of us. But maybe this is not the property site for that which works well at a desolate expressway stop in the middle of a bunch of corn fields.
Isn’t the whole point of SUCCESSFUL Urban Planning to customize a developer’s plan to fit the needs of the people of the city, and be appropriate for the
surrounding area, even attractive?..
as opposed to using the “same old worn out blueprint” used everywhere else regardless of the site.
Why can’t we learn to expect better?
That is at the heart of the problem. The “FAST FOOD”
approach is understandably loved by builders and developers because it has worked/works in other places and they’ve done it before, and it makes them money. I have no problem with that. Business is risk and anyone willing to take the risk deserves to make money.
However, can’t we encourage a more responsive approach
to the community needs and have it happen?
This is especially true if our city is happy to provide possible incentives to Mr Abud; ie. the usual tax breaks and other gifts from taxpayers doled out to any person with any old plan willing to build SOMETHING which is called “encouraging growth” by those running this town.. Why can’t we do a better job of actually fulfillilng the solid needs of our neighborhoods without settling for the “fast food”.(best bad examples: Cub Foods and Campus Town) I think it’s great Mr.Abud is willing to try a business venture in this area, but admittedly, he
wouldn’t want these trucks in his back yard to entertain HIS kids and daughters, young sons and family.
It sounds a lot like “Hey, you guys need groceries and a
laundromat ? …
we’ll give you the grocery store,and laundromat if you don’t complain about throwing in option of prostitutes and the all-night nightlife at the trucker hotel.
With all best and admirable intentions Mr.Abud can’t keep these elements out.
I also find it sad that there is always such a need for personal attacks on the very individuals that are giving their time, energy, and intellect towards solving the problems of our city. Why throw personal assaults at anyone trying to help make Peoria better.
I was under the impression that Harrison homes is going to be leveled soon. If so, why does everyone keep pointing out that Harrison is 100 yards away?
If Kroger was the development, would the discussion be here.
Kroger would request same if not more liqueur space.
Single sales are also permitted @ Kroger.
Kroger can be a shit box also. Check out Wisconsin Avenue and the Madison Park store. People park in the fire lane, are rude and sometimes drunk, they leave their cars parked where people can’t even go into the store without climbing over the hoods. If you look at them the wrong way you will get shouted down. The parking lot has no order, people park anyway they want, leave their garbage in the lot and that includes beer bottles (the 40s). My wife has been threaten simply by just walking in by thugs who hang out waiting for the liquor store next door to open at 10am! Who in the f**k waits for a liquor store to open? In other words, it is the element that makes Kroger’s in Madison Park a shitbox. That will be what happens to the new store on Adams no matter if it’s a Kroger or Abul’s. Look at Shop Rite on Western. Why do people have to hang out in front of it day and night? The only reason is they are looking for an opportunity to rob or steal or sell drugs to someone. There is no other reason to group and hang out in front of a grocery store for hours on end. Don’t give me that crap that if it were a Kroger’s there would be no discussion. The sad truth is it’s the low life’s and thugs that destroy these businesses.
The above post is NOT by Jazzbass but by me.(Emtronics) I am using his laptop and didn’t change the info before posting. Sorry.
LOL, Geez Em — I thought I had posted in my sleep for a second! HA HA!
JB